2k Competitive attempt at a Seaguard Garrison list

[Pash]

Ok, so here's the list I put together. It did not perform particularly well. Mainly just lacks punch and no way to realisably stop a dragon flying at you. Still, there were some fun elements so maybe there's something there for the future.

170 - Ishaya Vess, Sentinel of the Silent Isle, General
142 - Noble, Bow of Avelorn, Light Armour, Shield, Shadow Stalker, Amulet of the Tempest
140 - Noble, Bow of Avelorn, Light Armour, Shadow Stalker, Bow of the Seafarer
135 - Sea Guard Garrison Commanders, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Shield, Reaver Bow
210 - Storm Weavers, Unicorn, Wizard Level 3, Elementalism, Lore Familiar
395 - 26 Lothern Sea Guard, Shield, Sea Master, Standard Bearer, Razor Standard, Musician, Magic Standard, Veteran (Replaces Valour of Ages), Drilled (Pride of the Fleet)
146 - 10 Shadow Warriors, Shadow Walker, Ambushers (Old World Rangers)
120 - 8 Shadow Warriors, Feigned Flight
80 - Eagle-Claw Bolt Thrower
80 - Eagle-Claw Bolt Thrower
80 - Eagle-Claw Bolt Thrower
80 - Eagle-Claw Bolt Thrower
80 - Eagle-Claw Bolt Thrower
141 - 6 Ellyrian Reavers, Cavalry Spear, Shortbow, Harbinger, The Loremaster's Cloak

[Anduil of Elithis]

Thank you for sharing this, Pash. Much appreciated!
So far I actually thought that one peculiar strenght of the SGG list was the larger access to flying units and skycutters in particular. Since you did not include any flying units at all, I was wondering what your reasoning was for this.

What spells is the Storm Weaver taking in this list?

[Pash]

Thank you for sharing this, Pash. Much appreciated!
So far I actually thought that one peculiar strenght of the SGG list was the larger access to flying units and skycutters in particular. Since you did not include any flying units at all, I was wondering what your reasoning was for this.

What spells is the Storm Weaver taking in this list?

I like Skycutters, I really do but other than being quite annoying and cheap-ish (comparatively), they're not amazing. They're not Dragon Ogres or Pegs. Yeah, they can get something done but they're not enough to carry the army, in my opinion. Plus, I thought a battery of RBTs would be one of the main appeals of this army. Sadly, I found that to be quite lacklustre.

The Storm Weaver took TMP, POR, and WB. I didn't find her to be very effective, to be honest. The difference between L3 & L4 and not having Lileath's Blessing is pretty significant. I genuinely think this army will struggle to find it's feet until they release TOW 1.5

[Pash]

Alright, so here's another direction.

I've just realised that Sea Guard Commanders have Evasive on anything other than Skycutters. Which means you can have Evasive Griffons Paired with the fact that SGG magic is pretty pants, I thought to lean into that a bit more and go no magic, full Evasive force. The idea being that it's bloody hard to pin anything down and unless facing some sort of no-fly ability you should be able to avoid anything that isn't favourable. Like trying to catch smoke!

Here's what I came up with:

387 - Sea Guard Garrison Commanders, Cavalry Spear, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer, Battle Banner, Griffon, Null Stone
220 - Sea Guard Garrison Commanders, Cavalry Spear, Warbow, Heavy Armour, General, Great Eagle, Bow of the Seafarer, Dragon Helm, Charmed Shield
197 - Sea Guard Garrison Commanders, Cavalry Spear, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Shield, Great Eagle, Reaver Bow
191 - Sea Guard Garrison Commanders, Cavalry Spear, Longbow, Heavy Armour, Shield, Great Eagle, Ruby Ring of Ruin
211 - 12 Shadow Warriors, Shadow Walker, Ring of Fury, Feigned Flight
199 - 12 Shadow Warriors, Shadow Walker, Ring of Fury
125 - 12 Ship's Company, Warbow, Light Armour, Midshipman, Skirmishers
125 - 12 Ship's Company, Warbow, Light Armour, Midshipman, Skirmishers
115 - Lothern Skycutters, Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower
115 - Lothern Skycutters, Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower
115 - Lothern Skycutters, Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower

[Anduil of Elithis]

Quite an interesting approach, thank you for sharing it! I can imagine this list being quite an annoyance to face. Maybe I should proxy some models and go on to test this

Just one question: what keeps the SGCs evasive from working on skycutters? On the top of my head I couldn't think of a specific reason. But I don't get to play a lot, so I might be overlooking something.

[Prince of Spires]

Just one question: what keeps the SGCs evasive from working on skycutters? On the top of my head I couldn't think of a specific reason. But I don't get to play a lot, so I might be overlooking something.

It specifically mentions it in the Accomplished Archers rule, which grants the Evasive Rule to the SGGC. It starts with "Unless mounted on a Skycutter"...

I like the list. It might actually be one of the few SGG lists worth taking... I would consider dropping 1 SGGC and upgrading one eagle to a griffon (I would probably drop the reaver bow one). You also don't really have much in terms of combat hitting power. The cavalry spears don't do all that much. The Skycutters are nice, but they also drop off after the first combat round. I'm wondering if finding room for a magical weapon would benefit the list. At some point, being able to get into combat and finishing off units is needed.

So far I actually thought that one peculiar strenght of the SGG list was the larger access to flying units and skycutters in particular

Interestingly, it only really looks like that from a distance. And only because they're in special. However, when you start building lists, you'll find that you can actually run about as many Skycutters in a grand army as in a SGG army. Just consider: you need 33% core, instead of 25%, and you'll likely bring more than 25% in characters, which means you're only ever get a maximum of 40% special choices anyway, with 30% or less being more likely. And in a grand army, if you bring a Sea Guard General, you can take one Skycutter in special, as well as filling up your rare slot with them. So if you want, you can bring a Skycutter themed list as a grand army (and have a prince mounted on the thing instead of a SGGC).

[Anduil of Elithis]

Just one question: what keeps the SGCs evasive from working on skycutters? On the top of my head I couldn't think of a specific reason. But I don't get to play a lot, so I might be overlooking something.

It specifically mentions it in the Accomplished Archers rule, which grants the Evasive Rule to the SGGC. It starts with "Unless mounted on a Skycutter"...

Ha, teaches me not to read in the wrong places. I went through the Evasive and chariot rules but did not properly check Accomplished Archers.

[Prince of Spires]

Games Workshop is very good at both adding weird and unnecessary rules to stuff, and then in hiding them in strange places as well...

[Jedra]

You can take more skycutters/flying.... if you go super character light. Like 500pts and below. It's a pretty big cost to do that.

Pash's new list is certainly an interesting alternative- leaning in to the main benefit of the SGG over a noble (apart from the boost to lsg i so lsg, i so often end up with builds that are more expensive and not really better than nobles). Without doubt it's interestingly different! I worry it would struggle to actually finish units off and the lack of AP, but it would be fun to play

[Pash]

Ok, ok. How about this version then? It's got a little bit more punch, so can hopefully go in for the kill and hope there's no attacks back

325 - Sea Guard Garrison Commanders, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer, Griffon, Star Lance, Dragon Helm, Seed of Rebirth
232 - Sea Guard Garrison Commanders, Cavalry Spear, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Shield, Great Eagle, Null Stone
207 - Sea Guard Garrison Commanders, Cavalry Spear, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Shield, General, Great Eagle, Bow of the Seafarer
225 - Sea Guard Garrison Commanders, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Shield, Great Eagle, Reaver Bow, Ruby Ring of Ruin
211 - 12 Shadow Warriors, Shadow Walker, Ring of Fury, Feigned Flight
199 - 12 Shadow Warriors, Shadow Walker, Ring of Fury
125 - 12 Ship's Company, Warbow, Light Armour, Midshipman, Skirmishers (replaces Open Order)
125 - 12 Ship's Company, Warbow, Light Armour, Midshipman, Skirmishers (replaces Open Order)
90 - Lothern Skycutters
90 - Lothern Skycutters
170 - Flamespyre Phoenix

[Frostknight187]

This is great. I have been working on coming up with a competitive Seaguard list and it is not easy. Hard to be punchy enough to deal with behemoths and dragons. Here is a list I have been running that has been fun, and with some good play has performed quite well. Our meta does heavily play with objectives, hence the banners that have been added to the reavers, ship's company, and seaguard

===
Sea Spray and Pray [1999 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, High Elf Realms, Sea Guard Garrison
===

++ Characters [799 pts] ++

Noble [262 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Great weapon
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- General
- Griffon
- Opal Amulet
- Seed of Rebirth
- Dragon Helm
- Pure of Heart

Noble [177 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Great weapon
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Battle Standard Bearer [Banner of Confidence]
- On foot
- Bow of the Seafarer
- Sea Guard

Ishaya Vess [170 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Mathlann's Ire
- Warbow
- Heavy armour
- Shield

Storm Weaver [190 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 3 Wizard
- On foot
- Silvery Wand
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Elementalism

++ Core Units [664 pts] ++

25 Lothern Sea Guard [357 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Thrusting spears
- Warbows
- Light armour
- Shields
- Drilled
- Sea Master (champion)
- Standard bearer [Razor Standard]
- Musician

15 Ship's Company [145 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Warbows
- Skirmishers (Replaces Open Order)
- Champion [Midshipman]
- Standard bearer

5 Shadow Warriors [81 pts]
- Longbows
- Light armour
- Feigned Flight
- Shadow Walker

5 Shadow Warriors [81 pts]
- Longbows
- Light armour
- Feigned Flight
- Shadow Walker

++ Special Units [345 pts] ++

Lothern Skycutter [115 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Shortbows
- Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower

Lothern Skycutter [115 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Shortbows
- Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower

Lothern Skycutter [115 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Shortbows
- Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower

++ Rare Units [191 pts] ++

8 Ellyrian Reavers [191 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Cavalry spears
- Light armour
- Shortbows
- Skirmishers
- Harbinger (champion) [Ring of Fury]
- Standard bearer

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

[Pash]

This is great. I have been working on coming up with a competitive Seaguard list and it is not easy. Hard to be punchy enough to deal with behemoths and dragons. Here is a list I have been running that has been fun, and with some good play has performed quite well. Our meta does heavily play with objectives, hence the banners that have been added to the reavers, ship's company, and seaguard

===
Sea Spray and Pray [1999 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, High Elf Realms, Sea Guard Garrison
===

++ Characters [799 pts] ++

Noble [262 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Great weapon
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- General
- Griffon
- Opal Amulet
- Seed of Rebirth
- Dragon Helm
- Pure of Heart

Noble [177 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Great weapon
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Battle Standard Bearer [Banner of Confidence]
- On foot
- Bow of the Seafarer
- Sea Guard

Ishaya Vess [170 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Mathlann's Ire
- Warbow
- Heavy armour
- Shield

Storm Weaver [190 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 3 Wizard
- On foot
- Silvery Wand
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Elementalism

++ Core Units [664 pts] ++

25 Lothern Sea Guard [357 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Thrusting spears
- Warbows
- Light armour
- Shields
- Drilled
- Sea Master (champion)
- Standard bearer [Razor Standard]
- Musician

15 Ship's Company [145 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Warbows
- Skirmishers (Replaces Open Order)
- Champion [Midshipman]
- Standard bearer

5 Shadow Warriors [81 pts]
- Longbows
- Light armour
- Feigned Flight
- Shadow Walker

5 Shadow Warriors [81 pts]
- Longbows
- Light armour
- Feigned Flight
- Shadow Walker

++ Special Units [345 pts] ++

Lothern Skycutter [115 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Shortbows
- Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower

Lothern Skycutter [115 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Shortbows
- Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower

Lothern Skycutter [115 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Shortbows
- Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower

++ Rare Units [191 pts] ++

8 Ellyrian Reavers [191 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Cavalry spears
- Light armour
- Shortbows
- Skirmishers
- Harbinger (champion) [Ring of Fury]
- Standard bearer

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

Looks interesting for sure! I wonder if it can be improved upon by swapping the Noble BSB for a Sea Garrison Commander? You'd need some extra points to fit him in, so probably need to drop some bolt throwers on the Skycutters (personally, they've never worked for me) but in return you get an extra wound, an extra pip of BS for your super bow, and Evasive for your Sea Guard (!). The last of which should really help them survive and can do some impressive Drilled shenanigans every time someone decides to shoot at them. Worth exploring!

[Frostknight187]

Looks interesting for sure! I wonder if it can be improved upon by swapping the Noble BSB for a Sea Garrison Commander? You'd need some extra points to fit him in, so probably need to drop some bolt throwers on the Skycutters (personally, they've never worked for me) but in return you get an extra wound, an extra pip of BS for your super bow, and Evasive for your Sea Guard (!). The last of which should really help them survive and can do some impressive Drilled shenanigans every time someone decides to shoot at them. Worth exploring!

Hey Pash,

I have tried many games with the Seaguard commander in the unit but never really saw or felt the need to take advantage of the evasive or fire and flee he gives to the unit. The banner of confidence is great and the only benefit i saw to the extra BS point was you get a reroll of a 5 on a miss. which wasn't a huge deal to me. the biggest thing i saw was in combat or during a challenge he cannot punch up at all, he is either on a hand weapon or sword of might at best with the 30 points he has left. Never felt great in combat. with the Noble he is cheaper, can take the protective magical items, and is able to equip a great weapon so he is attacking at st 6 with ap2 ab1 which feels a lot nicer in combat than st5 swings. Same WS to. The games with the eagle eye bolt throwers have been surprisingly nice. when they do hit, they do tend to wound because it is strength 5 and its D3 wounds which is really nice if you roll a 5 or a 6 which can get rid of a pesky peg knight, or chip down dragon ogres, or any other behemoth which is nice. What I tend to do with the sky cutters is fly out front fast and get to the side or behind units. with fly 10 its easy to avoid charge LOS and because skycutters are firing platforms, they have a 360 degree shooting LOS which is really nice. So I fly to a flank and just pepper with bow shots and the bolt thrower, then charge them in if I really need to. Its nice with Lumbering as well, fly 10 over a unit, get a free 90 degree pivot can always be pointing at something juicy I want to charge =D

[Pash]

Looks interesting for sure! I wonder if it can be improved upon by swapping the Noble BSB for a Sea Garrison Commander? You'd need some extra points to fit him in, so probably need to drop some bolt throwers on the Skycutters (personally, they've never worked for me) but in return you get an extra wound, an extra pip of BS for your super bow, and Evasive for your Sea Guard (!). The last of which should really help them survive and can do some impressive Drilled shenanigans every time someone decides to shoot at them. Worth exploring!

Hey Pash,

I have tried many games with the Seaguard commander in the unit but never really saw or felt the need to take advantage of the evasive or fire and flee he gives to the unit. The banner of confidence is great and the only benefit i saw to the extra BS point was you get a reroll of a 5 on a miss. which wasn't a huge deal to me. the biggest thing i saw was in combat or during a challenge he cannot punch up at all, he is either on a hand weapon or sword of might at best with the 30 points he has left. Never felt great in combat. with the Noble he is cheaper, can take the protective magical items, and is able to equip a great weapon so he is attacking at st 6 with ap2 ab1 which feels a lot nicer in combat than st5 swings. Same WS to. The games with the eagle eye bolt throwers have been surprisingly nice. when they do hit, they do tend to wound because it is strength 5 and its D3 wounds which is really nice if you roll a 5 or a 6 which can get rid of a pesky peg knight, or chip down dragon ogres, or any other behemoth which is nice. What I tend to do with the sky cutters is fly out front fast and get to the side or behind units. with fly 10 its easy to avoid charge LOS and because skycutters are firing platforms, they have a 360 degree shooting LOS which is really nice. So I fly to a flank and just pepper with bow shots and the bolt thrower, then charge them in if I really need to. Its nice with Lumbering as well, fly 10 over a unit, get a free 90 degree pivot can always be pointing at something juicy I want to charge =D

I getcha but i'm still not convinced on those mini-bolt throwers. Middling BS and no nice gimmicks. A Through & Through would be amazing (missed opportunity!) but even Quick Shot would have been nice. As it is, I just never seem to get much utility out of them and for the price of three bolt thrower upgrades, I could almost squeeze in another Skycutter, which seems like better value. Still, if you're getting milage out of them, good on you.

As ever, your experience with the army may vary depending on who you face. If you come up against a decent monster or two, it might be tricky to deal with them while they're descending on you. If you're facing against other elves, it feels a bit more even.

Time will tell what this army will look like after the next big update!

[Frostknight187]

I getcha but i'm still not convinced on those mini-bolt throwers. Middling BS and no nice gimmicks. A Through & Through would be amazing (missed opportunity!) but even Quick Shot would have been nice. As it is, I just never seem to get much utility out of them and for the price of three bolt thrower upgrades, I could almost squeeze in another Skycutter, which seems like better value. Still, if you're getting milage out of them, good on you.

As ever, your experience with the army may vary depending on who you face. If you come up against a decent monster or two, it might be tricky to deal with them while they're descending on you. If you're facing against other elves, it feels a bit more even.

Time will tell what this army will look like after the next big update!

Hey Pash,

Yeah im not saying its great, but its what we have to work with. I have tried phoenix's but have felt like they just lack punch. im not thrilled about them, and would rather have a skycutter with bolt thrower over them. Its not an awesome list. No matter what build i have tried it just lack's punch. Monsters eat through this army unless you focus fire everything at them and even then usually just a wound or 2 comes off. The list really needs some changes to give it more punch. If the seaguard garrison commanders came with full plate and great weapons that would help a lot with the 75 point allocation for items. Right now for their cost Nobles are just a better cost effective option over them. I have played a few games with the garrison commander in the seaguard but felt like it wasn't a huge impact to the overall game. either seaguard are shooting and holding an objective, or if they get charged by a character on monster and another unit, and they just die, no escaping it, even if trying to delay the inevitable with challenges. Its a fun thematic list, if i get lucky rolls winning some tough matchups becomes possible, but have noticed that I only win if I can focus fire down the big threats and usually charge my griffon with like 2 other skycutters into other big units to win combats. Otherwise anything they charge alone they usually just don't win or get bogged down in combat and lose the impact hits and cav spears so very anemic on second round of combat. Don't think it will ever be competitive honestly even with the new supposed rule changes. Regardless its fun, and I like the theme of the list. Hope the changes really help infantry.

[Pash]

Here's hoping they do! And anyway, as long as you're enjoying it, that's what matters.