Chracian Host 2k

[Pash]

Have been enjoying getting my High Elves on the (virtual) table recently, so decided to take an AJ list to a local 1-dayer that's coming up in a few weeks. I tried (really, I did!) to make a Sea Guard list work but the one time I put it on the table, it just landed like a wet fart. Some fun gimmicks in it but really hard to take something competitive out of it, at least in it's current format.

So I decided to play around with Chracian Warhost. Here's my first attempt and i'll be honest, it looks ok, pretty vanilla, nothing inspiring. Should be fairly good, I think but time will tell if it's enough to win events. See what you think.

175 - Korhil Lionmane, Captain of the White Lions
265 - Archmage, Chracian Hunter, Wizard Level 4, High Magic, Power Scroll, Lore Familiar, Opal Amulet
528 - Prince, Full Plate Armour, Shield, Pure of Heart, General, Star Dragon, Sword of Might, Dragon Helm, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet, Talisman Of Protection
112 - 7 Chracian Woodsmen, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Lion Cloak, Ambushers (replaces Vanguard)
105 - 7 Chracian Woodsmen, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Lion Cloak
443 - 25 White Lions of Chrace, Veteran, Guardian, The Loremaster's Cloak, Standard Bearer, War Banner, Musician
192 - 9 Sisters of Avelorn, High Sister, Bow of the Seafarer
177 - 9 Sisters of Avelorn, High Sister, Burning Blade, Ruby Ring of Ruin

P.S. In this event, Korhil can join the White Lions while not being the general. Just as he always should have

[Anduil of Elithis]

I tried (really, I did!) to make a Sea Guard list work but the one time I put it on the table, it just landed like a wet fart. Some fun gimmicks in it but really hard to take something competitive out of it, at least in it's current format.

I know you want to discuss your Chrace list, but actually this makes me really curious as well, since I want to try the list as well despite its shortcomings. Can you share more details on this?

[Pash]

I tried (really, I did!) to make a Sea Guard list work but the one time I put it on the table, it just landed like a wet fart. Some fun gimmicks in it but really hard to take something competitive out of it, at least in it's current format.

I know you want to discuss your Chrace list, but actually this makes me really curious as well, since I want to try the list as well despite its shortcomings. Can you share more details on this?

Posted it up as a separate chat. Here's the link if you're curious - viewtopic.php?t=103904

[Jedra]

I keep coming back to the white lions in this list. With korhil and the AM they sit at nearky 900 points and I'm struggling to see how you'd use them in a way that would justify that. I guess the plan to use WBW with the AM to keep them safeish when receiving a charge?

My worry with the big expensive infantry block is flankers and redirectors. I think I'd probably shrink the WL for another woodsmen unit if you're using one as an ambusher. Alternatively i just wouldn't take ambusher at all: if you keep them close they're good to keep most flanking units away, especially when combined with the sisters, and I'm not sure 25 WL + korhil + Archmage will outperform 20.

Edit: i know you have your own dragon, but frankly this unit is very vulnerable to "death by monster". The static CR is pretty low and it don't have rerolls on break tests. Even if your prince is in range, death by fleeing is very real. A bsb may be a more effective character than korhil

[Pash]

I keep coming back to the white lions in this list. With korhil and the AM they sit at nearky 900 points and I'm struggling to see how you'd use them in a way that would justify that. I guess the plan to use WBW with the AM to keep them safeish when receiving a charge?

My worry with the big expensive infantry block is flankers and redirectors. I think I'd probably shrink the WL for another woodsmen unit if you're using one as an ambusher. Alternatively i just wouldn't take ambusher at all: if you keep them close they're good to keep most flanking units away, especially when combined with the sisters, and I'm not sure 25 WL + korhil + Archmage will outperform 20.

Edit: i know you have your own dragon, but frankly this unit is very vulnerable to "death by monster". The static CR is pretty low and it don't have rerolls on break tests. Even if your prince is in range, death by fleeing is very real. A bsb may be a more effective character than korhil

I played only one practice game with this list so far, against the new WE shooty list. It was a pretty even match up, he had a tooled-up dragon of his own and lots of nasty shooting (as per usual). Our dragons got locked in combat and basically just ground each other for ages. At one point he was able to break free and charge my WL (who were standing and staring at his big block of Wardancers, baiting them to charge in). I was able to challenge out with my champion in his turn, then cast WBW and challenge out with Korhil, who kept putting wounds on him and managed to do 2 (down to last wound!) before the game ended. Since his dragon did not have magical attacks, it was pretty much stuck there, losing combat by 1-2pts every round until I got a rear charge with my dragon on it (sadly failed a 16" charge out of a wood), which would have sealed his fate. Because the WL have Veteran, you don't really need a BSB, as it's technically better (they initially failed a LD10 Terror test but passed on the reroll ), although the static res would be nice.

I'll be honest, Korhil is there for flavour. I have him painted, i've not used him in about a decade, and i'm keen to let him see some table time. He'll probably be retired after this event but for now, I think he can be fun.

Regarding the Woodsmen, I was fairly unimpressed. They allied pressure in a way that they could keep walking towards softer elven targets and threaten a charge but they never hit anything (too many modifiers) and when they did make it into combat, they were fairly unimpressive (due to the low numbers that eventually got there). I'm wondering if they'd be better as Archers, for more drops. The Ambushing thing was there as an option, so I could decide if I wanted to get the +1 to go first or try and threaten the mindgame of "where will they turn up". To be honest, they're not that effective and i've played two games where the ambushunit just doesn't turn up until mandatory T5, even with Chracian bonus. Still, it's a fun mechanic to try out.

This list is very much a "throw a bunch of fun-looking, semi-competitive options and see what sticks". Sometimes you get little bits of cool tech, other times you just reinforce your opinion of certain builds. It's all experimental.

[Jedra]

The WBW+Korhil challenge dynamic is nice tbh and i hadn't considered that angle. Right to be bringing the power scroll i think in that case!

I definitely had a different experience with the woodsmen the one time i played them, but took 3 x 8 strong and one larger one as my only core. One unit did nothing useful on a flank and died, but the two small ones in close support did good jobs in both shooting and combat. The big unit was kind of hard to maneuver well, they definitely work better in small units.

The more i think about it, from a purely effectiveness perspective the more i think a bsb (probably with battle banner but might be a squeeze) would do better than korhill. The extra static res makes the enemy more likely to fbigo when you win (preserving charge int bonus), more likely to bounce a dragon and more likely to survive for your round 2 wbw combat if you take a charge (both static res and rerolls). You obviously can't fit bsb, am, korhil and the dragon though, and yeah i can see why you'd want to stick with the model

[Pash]

Yeah, for efficiency, you'd want Battle Banner BSB in those WL, for sure. That way you'd have 2-4 Static res extra to rely on, which Korhil just wouldn't provide himself. It might end up going that way but for now, i'll give the ol' lionbraids a run out and see how he gets on.

[Houdini]

Hey Pash,

Great to see you giving the Warhost a crack! My most recent list is Chracian theme and I am determined to stick with it. I only just managed to have my first game with it a couple of nights ago against WoC and similar list iteration to yours (with a BSB instead of Korhil).
Some take aways from the game. The White Lion unit felt very manoeuvrable with open order and WBW, though still had the issue of struggling to get a favourable charge. High magic seems very limiting in that it doesn’t cause much pressure to the opponent and really the only spell that matters is WBW. Battle could potentially provide more versatility with similar protection for the unit. I had two units of woodsmen and both units managed to pick off some of the last wounds of units that the sisters couldn’t finish off, collecting some good points that I otherwise probably wouldn’t have. I feel smaller units of Woodsmen could be utilised as chaff as well as annoyance potentially. I would love to hear how you go with some more games and at the tournament.

[Pash]

Hey Pash,

Great to see you giving the Warhost a crack! My most recent list is Chracian theme and I am determined to stick with it. I only just managed to have my first game with it a couple of nights ago against WoC and similar list iteration to yours (with a BSB instead of Korhil).
Some take aways from the game. The White Lion unit felt very manoeuvrable with open order and WBW, though still had the issue of struggling to get a favourable charge. High magic seems very limiting in that it doesn’t cause much pressure to the opponent and really the only spell that matters is WBW. Battle could potentially provide more versatility with similar protection for the unit. I had two units of woodsmen and both units managed to pick off some of the last wounds of units that the sisters couldn’t finish off, collecting some good points that I otherwise probably wouldn’t have. I feel smaller units of Woodsmen could be utilised as chaff as well as annoyance potentially. I would love to hear how you go with some more games and at the tournament.

I've had a similar thought about Battle vs High magic and yes, Battle does have better reach and offers a similar level of mobility and protection. However, having run Battle + Whitelions in a massive megadeathstar for one gaming day, I quickly found that I wished I had High Magic instead. Being able to do a double pivot (with Open order) is massive and I feel when WBW is on the unit, you feel sort of immune to damage and that gives you greater flexibility. Sure, having only Fiery Convocation as my ranged threat was limiting but it was workable.

I'll need to play with it to see how it goes.

[Houdini]

Interesting you have already trialled the White Lion unit with Battle Magic, and great feedback that you still wished you had High Magic during those games. I think I’ll take some of your experience and stick with Higb Magic for now. If infantry get a bit more of a boost (not likely) in the rules update it could be very good for the Warhost!

I also only just realised you have burning blade on one of your High Sisters. I’m curious as to why?

[Pash]

Interesting you have already trialled the White Lion unit with Battle Magic, and great feedback that you still wished you had High Magic during those games. I think I’ll take some of your experience and stick with Higb Magic for now. If infantry get a bit more of a boost (not likely) in the rules update it could be very good for the Warhost!

I also only just realised you have burning blade on one of your High Sisters. I’m curious as to why?

The burning blade thing seems to be typo. Didn't mean to add it, no idea why it's there!