Hello,
i will play a small Tournament (not overly competitive) and decided to bring my High Elves. I personally love the Swordmaster, but last time I had mixed result with theme (Unit was way to small, unsupported and badly positioned). Every unit and characters are capped at 350 Points and to make it more interisting I dont plan on an Dragon heavy list. Also no Arcane Journals. I know I will run into Dwarf, Bretonia and Deamons (Tzeentch). So my main question is, how I can support my Swordmasters?
This is a List I created as an starting point, which supports the Sword Masters with an Archmage (Which Lore is in Question there?):
High Elf Realms [1391 pts]
++ Characters [557 pts] ++
Archmage [245 pts]
(Sword of Hoeth, Level 4 Wizard, General, On foot, Lore Familiar, Seed of Rebirth, Warden of Saphery, High Magic)
Noble [312 pts]
(Hand weapon, Great weapon, Full plate armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner], Griffon, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet, Dragon Helm, Pure of Heart)
++ Core Units [361 pts] ++
10 Silver Helms [258 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Hand weapons (Hooves), Heavy armour, Barding, Shields, High Helm (champion), Standard bearer, Musician)
5 Ellyrian Reavers [103 pts]
(Hand weapons, Cavalry spears, Light armour, Scouts, Skirmishers, Harbinger (champion))
++ Special Units [348 pts] ++
17 Swordmasters of Hoeth [348 pts]
(Swords of Hoeth, Heavy armour, Drilled, Bladelord [The Loremaster's Cloak], Standard bearer [Banner of Iron Resolve], Musician)
++ Rare Units [125 pts] ++
Lion Chariot of Chrace [125 pts]
(Chracian great blades)
Thanks for every idea, help or hint in advance!
1400 Points small Tournament List Swordmasters
Re: 1400 Points small Tournament List Swordmasters
I like it. I've played a block of Swordmasters with archmage in a few recent games and it can pack quite the punch. The only thing it struggled with was massed chariots (impact hits hurt) but i think you have a good number of fast moving units that should serve to deal with that.
Couple tweaks:
First I'd recommend illlusion, not high. High Magic isn't a bad choice, but in general many of it's spells require you to not be marching, charging or in combat - if the AM is in the SM unit it will want to be doing one of those things. WBW does help remove the biggest weaknesses, but with the FAQ not allowing you to charge then cast it greatly reduces the likelihood you'll have it up for combat.
Illusions main issue is the short range and high casting values of the spells: being in the SM unit solves the first, being a high elf mitigates the second. Glittering Robe gives you a good buff against ranged and in combat (most things will only hit on 5+) and you'll use it every turn. Miasmic Mirage can be used to mess with your opponent's counter charges, and Spectral Doppelganger with the S5 killing blow attacks really hurts most units.
I'd take Column of Crystal for the 4th: it's good for blocking war machines and shooting early on and messing with their movement, although mid game you'll have few chances to use it (too busy fighting). Confounding Convocation is the other candidate, but it's short range and RiP AND then they get a LD test to ignore it: I've literally never had a failed stupidity test from it.
Paired with that I'd look to include the Sacred Incense. It can go on the SM champ and you move the Loremasters to the AM. Glittering Robe + Incense means you are immune to poison shots in most situations.
I'd swap out the Iron Resolve for rampaging banner. Generally if that unit is losing a combat it's probably also almost dead.
I'd also put the war banner on the SH - gives them solid static res which increases your odds of a FBIGO meaning you can keeo using lances in later rounds. Giving the champ a Ring is Fury is also a good idea. Honestly, id probably drop the reavers to pay for this and add 2 more SH - I've pretty much never had anything good happen with reavers, but maybe that's a skill issue.
Lastly... for foot and cavalry characters, take opal amulets instead of seeds of rebirth. With low wounds, you'll save much more reliably with one really good ward than the 5+ regen. Keep the seeds on the griffon though, it's worth it there.
Couple tweaks:
First I'd recommend illlusion, not high. High Magic isn't a bad choice, but in general many of it's spells require you to not be marching, charging or in combat - if the AM is in the SM unit it will want to be doing one of those things. WBW does help remove the biggest weaknesses, but with the FAQ not allowing you to charge then cast it greatly reduces the likelihood you'll have it up for combat.
Illusions main issue is the short range and high casting values of the spells: being in the SM unit solves the first, being a high elf mitigates the second. Glittering Robe gives you a good buff against ranged and in combat (most things will only hit on 5+) and you'll use it every turn. Miasmic Mirage can be used to mess with your opponent's counter charges, and Spectral Doppelganger with the S5 killing blow attacks really hurts most units.
I'd take Column of Crystal for the 4th: it's good for blocking war machines and shooting early on and messing with their movement, although mid game you'll have few chances to use it (too busy fighting). Confounding Convocation is the other candidate, but it's short range and RiP AND then they get a LD test to ignore it: I've literally never had a failed stupidity test from it.
Paired with that I'd look to include the Sacred Incense. It can go on the SM champ and you move the Loremasters to the AM. Glittering Robe + Incense means you are immune to poison shots in most situations.
I'd swap out the Iron Resolve for rampaging banner. Generally if that unit is losing a combat it's probably also almost dead.
I'd also put the war banner on the SH - gives them solid static res which increases your odds of a FBIGO meaning you can keeo using lances in later rounds. Giving the champ a Ring is Fury is also a good idea. Honestly, id probably drop the reavers to pay for this and add 2 more SH - I've pretty much never had anything good happen with reavers, but maybe that's a skill issue.
Lastly... for foot and cavalry characters, take opal amulets instead of seeds of rebirth. With low wounds, you'll save much more reliably with one really good ward than the 5+ regen. Keep the seeds on the griffon though, it's worth it there.
Re: 1400 Points small Tournament List Swordmasters
With a Sword of Hoeth and a combat mage I'd reccomend Illusion with intent to get Spectral Doppelgänger, Miasmic Mirage and Glittering robe, maybe Column of Crystal.
This allows you to counteract enemy movement so your swordmasters can more easily avoid getting charged by things that threaten them and stop their targets from running away too easily. Glittering robe also keeps them save from shooting or attacks, which complements the loremaster's cloak nicely (though you could potentially even drop that one, they already have MR1 and the archmage is right there to dispell). The factions you're facing off against don't have that many stomps too, so few auto-hits, and glittering robe synergizes very well with WS6: Anything but enemy lords hit the unit on 5s now. Finally Spectral Doppelgänger on a S5 AP-2 killing blow mage that strikes at I6 (?) can be unit-ending stuff. Column might also block some dw/tzeentch shooting for a round.
My reasons for not taking the other lores would be:
Battle - Marching column + arcane urgency could allow you to zip across the battlefield and oaken shield is nice, but the remaining spells aren't suited for a slow combat wizard that will be marching or fighting for most turns. Also Curse of Arrow Attraction is useless for the list.
High - Close second, but basically exclusively for walk between worlds and fury of khaine. The issue is you can't cast one when charging and can't cast the other when starting your turn in combat, which negates any advantage over spectral doppelgänger for this mage specifically (~7 killing blow hits each combat phase or ~1 killing blow attack + 6 cleaving blow attakcs, but only if you don't start your turn stuck in combat). Tempest can also be nice to control movement, but again, that mage is probably marching a lot, and when he does cast it, it's worse than column. It's a good lore, but the mage wants to be mobile or stand in a Sea Guard type of unit in my experience.
Elementalism - Just the wrong type of list for, imo that one only excels defensively.
As for some other comments on the army (from a competitive standpoint, so feel free to disregard any if they wouldn't fit thematically or thr tournamen's vibe), love the Noble BSB, that has to be my favourite build for him.
I'd recoment maybe finding a point for a ToP or at least an Opal Amulet on the Archmage, because at the moment he's the prime target in the unit (lowest WS, no armour, so any wounding roll is at least a combat res, and worth like 350pts on a kill).
I'm personally not a big fan of the reavers, they are too expensive and squishy for my taste. Personally I'd swap them out to get to 2*7 silver helms if you have the models. They really don't lag too far behind in terms of mobility and will offer a lot more punch for the army and protection for the swordmasters, while not giving up points as easily. And not giving an opponent a first shooting phase as easily, since scouts does that.
I would maybe also consider swapping out the banner of resilience on the SM. At this point level with a noble with a 18" Ld9 and reroll bubble on the field stubborn really only comes in if the swordmasters are in a really really bad position or severely beaten up already. Swapping e. G. War Banner on the Noble + Banner of Resilience for Battle Banner on the Noble (I think it should fit?) and war banner on the unit, that's essentially also +1 free Ls if you lose, and - 1 to enemy Ld if you win. And your noble just turned into an absolute bastion of combat res as a side effect (3-5 passively is no joke).
Essentially something like this:
Swordmaster List [1400 pts]
Archmage, Level 4 Wizard, General, 2x Opal Amulet, Lore Familiar, Warden of Saphery, Illusion - 265
Noble, Lance, Full plate armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer [Battle Banner], Griffon, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet, Dragon Helm, Pure of Heart - 347
7 Silver Helms, Shields, High Helm (champion) [Charmed Shield], Standard bearer - 185
7 Silver Helms, Shields, High Helm (champion), Standard bearer - 180
17 Swordmasters of Hoeth, Drilled, Standard bearer [War Banner], Full Command - 298
Lion Chariot of Chrace - 125
As for how to play and support the SM (assuming roughly the suggested list), I'd say spread everything else out (the other elements are more mobile to redeploy) and drop them last in a spot where you can get aggressive with them. I'd personally drop the griffon near them thereafter, but helms or even a lion chariot should do the trick.
Turn 1 get aggressive if possible with that 15" march, hopefully putting you into ca. 9" charge rangeand forcing the opponent to react, as you can charge and/or cast miasmic mirage next turn. Your other nearby units can hang back a bit further, ready to either charge along, countercharge whatever your opponent throws at you or simply deny space around the SM. Swordmasters should get their attacks off against anything that isn't a character even when charged, and even while in marching column they have +2 passive combat res. Spectral doppelgänger is scary and glittering robe ought to minimize losses.
If the enemy charges, great. You probably loose some models, but BSB Ld9, 2 passive combat res, still getting some 5 attacks + Doppelgänger and decent enough unit strength should result in a fall back in good order or give ground. In both cases you get 9 swordmasters attacking next turn, with all your other units ready to charge flanks or get a battle banner in there.
If they do not charge or back up, you do it again (this time not needing marching column most likely) until they engage you yourself get to charge. From there the game should play itself.
Of course a very ideal/general scenario, but you get the gist: Keep mobile units around that hit anything that engages the SM hard and deny the opponent the mobility/space to outmaneuver them. The noble should just be a combat res battering ram with a battle banner & - 1 Ld from terror, who can (hopefully) break whatever gets stuck in the swordmasters, deter stronger foes from engaging them, help silver helms get unstuck from prolonged combats etc. Try to get him wherever he's needed.
Whew, that was a lot, hope you don't mind the essay.
(about to post and I see: 2 essays. Glad to see we seem to agree in most points though)
This allows you to counteract enemy movement so your swordmasters can more easily avoid getting charged by things that threaten them and stop their targets from running away too easily. Glittering robe also keeps them save from shooting or attacks, which complements the loremaster's cloak nicely (though you could potentially even drop that one, they already have MR1 and the archmage is right there to dispell). The factions you're facing off against don't have that many stomps too, so few auto-hits, and glittering robe synergizes very well with WS6: Anything but enemy lords hit the unit on 5s now. Finally Spectral Doppelgänger on a S5 AP-2 killing blow mage that strikes at I6 (?) can be unit-ending stuff. Column might also block some dw/tzeentch shooting for a round.
My reasons for not taking the other lores would be:
Battle - Marching column + arcane urgency could allow you to zip across the battlefield and oaken shield is nice, but the remaining spells aren't suited for a slow combat wizard that will be marching or fighting for most turns. Also Curse of Arrow Attraction is useless for the list.
High - Close second, but basically exclusively for walk between worlds and fury of khaine. The issue is you can't cast one when charging and can't cast the other when starting your turn in combat, which negates any advantage over spectral doppelgänger for this mage specifically (~7 killing blow hits each combat phase or ~1 killing blow attack + 6 cleaving blow attakcs, but only if you don't start your turn stuck in combat). Tempest can also be nice to control movement, but again, that mage is probably marching a lot, and when he does cast it, it's worse than column. It's a good lore, but the mage wants to be mobile or stand in a Sea Guard type of unit in my experience.
Elementalism - Just the wrong type of list for, imo that one only excels defensively.
As for some other comments on the army (from a competitive standpoint, so feel free to disregard any if they wouldn't fit thematically or thr tournamen's vibe), love the Noble BSB, that has to be my favourite build for him.
I'd recoment maybe finding a point for a ToP or at least an Opal Amulet on the Archmage, because at the moment he's the prime target in the unit (lowest WS, no armour, so any wounding roll is at least a combat res, and worth like 350pts on a kill).
I'm personally not a big fan of the reavers, they are too expensive and squishy for my taste. Personally I'd swap them out to get to 2*7 silver helms if you have the models. They really don't lag too far behind in terms of mobility and will offer a lot more punch for the army and protection for the swordmasters, while not giving up points as easily. And not giving an opponent a first shooting phase as easily, since scouts does that.
I would maybe also consider swapping out the banner of resilience on the SM. At this point level with a noble with a 18" Ld9 and reroll bubble on the field stubborn really only comes in if the swordmasters are in a really really bad position or severely beaten up already. Swapping e. G. War Banner on the Noble + Banner of Resilience for Battle Banner on the Noble (I think it should fit?) and war banner on the unit, that's essentially also +1 free Ls if you lose, and - 1 to enemy Ld if you win. And your noble just turned into an absolute bastion of combat res as a side effect (3-5 passively is no joke).
Essentially something like this:
Swordmaster List [1400 pts]
Archmage, Level 4 Wizard, General, 2x Opal Amulet, Lore Familiar, Warden of Saphery, Illusion - 265
Noble, Lance, Full plate armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer [Battle Banner], Griffon, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet, Dragon Helm, Pure of Heart - 347
7 Silver Helms, Shields, High Helm (champion) [Charmed Shield], Standard bearer - 185
7 Silver Helms, Shields, High Helm (champion), Standard bearer - 180
17 Swordmasters of Hoeth, Drilled, Standard bearer [War Banner], Full Command - 298
Lion Chariot of Chrace - 125
As for how to play and support the SM (assuming roughly the suggested list), I'd say spread everything else out (the other elements are more mobile to redeploy) and drop them last in a spot where you can get aggressive with them. I'd personally drop the griffon near them thereafter, but helms or even a lion chariot should do the trick.
Turn 1 get aggressive if possible with that 15" march, hopefully putting you into ca. 9" charge rangeand forcing the opponent to react, as you can charge and/or cast miasmic mirage next turn. Your other nearby units can hang back a bit further, ready to either charge along, countercharge whatever your opponent throws at you or simply deny space around the SM. Swordmasters should get their attacks off against anything that isn't a character even when charged, and even while in marching column they have +2 passive combat res. Spectral doppelgänger is scary and glittering robe ought to minimize losses.
If the enemy charges, great. You probably loose some models, but BSB Ld9, 2 passive combat res, still getting some 5 attacks + Doppelgänger and decent enough unit strength should result in a fall back in good order or give ground. In both cases you get 9 swordmasters attacking next turn, with all your other units ready to charge flanks or get a battle banner in there.
If they do not charge or back up, you do it again (this time not needing marching column most likely) until they engage you yourself get to charge. From there the game should play itself.
Of course a very ideal/general scenario, but you get the gist: Keep mobile units around that hit anything that engages the SM hard and deny the opponent the mobility/space to outmaneuver them. The noble should just be a combat res battering ram with a battle banner & - 1 Ld from terror, who can (hopefully) break whatever gets stuck in the swordmasters, deter stronger foes from engaging them, help silver helms get unstuck from prolonged combats etc. Try to get him wherever he's needed.
Whew, that was a lot, hope you don't mind the essay.
(about to post and I see: 2 essays. Glad to see we seem to agree in most points though)
Last edited by Serathail on Wed Apr 30, 2025 7:09 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Re: 1400 Points small Tournament List Swordmasters
Something to consdier based on how your groups play. But It may be worth chopping the 10 helms into 2 units of 5 with champs. It gives you more drops. I played in a 1250point tourney a couple weeks back and some games were nearly decided at deploy with some low unit lists having issues with match ups.
At 140ish pnts though it susks to lose them, but it is few enoigh points they came be sent along to speed bump something for a turn.
At 140ish pnts though it susks to lose them, but it is few enoigh points they came be sent along to speed bump something for a turn.
Re: 1400 Points small Tournament List Swordmasters
Hello,
thanks for all this help and advice. I am really thankfull that you taken your time even for two essays. That is a thing I love about the Warhammer community.
I think i will run with Illusion Archmage (with Opal Amulett) and change the Banners. The Idea of Sacred Incrense like Jedra wrote I think is great, but I need to find points for hat.
The Idea oft wo units of Silver Helmes is better than the Reavers. In my last tounament I had good expiriences with the Reavers, but in all except one Situation the Helms would be more useful. My Question regarding this is: If both unit of Silver Helms have a standard are these not „easy“ victory points for my opponents or ist the value in combat res higher?
In two weeks I will test some models against a friend and based on that I will finalize the list. I will update you on my progression and experience with this list. I would like to see the SM shine in my tournament and will tweek on this thing over the weeks al little bit (the tournament is at the end of the month). Also I am happy over any additional Ideas and Feedback.
Have a great week!
thanks for all this help and advice. I am really thankfull that you taken your time even for two essays. That is a thing I love about the Warhammer community.
I think i will run with Illusion Archmage (with Opal Amulett) and change the Banners. The Idea of Sacred Incrense like Jedra wrote I think is great, but I need to find points for hat.
The Idea oft wo units of Silver Helmes is better than the Reavers. In my last tounament I had good expiriences with the Reavers, but in all except one Situation the Helms would be more useful. My Question regarding this is: If both unit of Silver Helms have a standard are these not „easy“ victory points for my opponents or ist the value in combat res higher?
In two weeks I will test some models against a friend and based on that I will finalize the list. I will update you on my progression and experience with this list. I would like to see the SM shine in my tournament and will tweek on this thing over the weeks al little bit (the tournament is at the end of the month). Also I am happy over any additional Ideas and Feedback.
Have a great week!
Re: 1400 Points small Tournament List Swordmasters
Glad it was helpful! FWIW I don't run full command on units of 5 SH - either no command, or with champ and ring. For the points you're trying to allocated I'd run no command, personally. At that size they're a chaff clearer, flanking unit to useful to help keep chariots etc away from the Swordmasters.
Loremaster's Cloak vs Sacred Incense being better will really come down to what list you face - and if you go Illusion with the AM at least Glittering Robe gives you the same effect as the Incence, so you do have some shooting protection baked in to the list already - can't do everything at 1500pts, choices must be made!
Loremaster's Cloak vs Sacred Incense being better will really come down to what list you face - and if you go Illusion with the AM at least Glittering Robe gives you the same effect as the Incence, so you do have some shooting protection baked in to the list already - can't do everything at 1500pts, choices must be made!