1500pts Sea Dragon List

[Serathail]

I'll be playing against bretonnia net week, and since I expect falcon horn is going to be a thing, I figured I might as well theme my list around a caledorian noble riding a flightless sea dragon (and his retinue).

Essentially I'm hoping the list will make it pretty difficult to approach without being hammered by one of the two mobile elements or taking severe casualties from an untimely PoR shooting phase. And if they do get too close TMP and/or Archers should buy me another 1-2 rounds of shooting, with Earthen Ramparts allowing the Sea Guard to drop 3ish knights before they strike. BTs hopefully keep Pegasus Knights honest, have him deploy too defensively and/or tear through a lance once or twice.
As for a Duke... I honestly just hope the noble can somewhat zone him with the threat of terror, 3 passive combat res, double his unit strength and decent saves (~25% chance to break if he does not cause at least 3 wounds). Killing him outright does not seem feasible without a bigger dragon or killing blow.

If I've missed anything, I'd be more than happy for feedback (though I'm trying to keep the list somewhat themed, so I'm not planning to get any sisters etc., even if they would most likely outperform the BTs)

Sea Dragon Retinue [1500 pts]
++ Characters [616 pts] ++
Archmage [245 pts]
(Warbow, Level 4 Wizard, General, On foot, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Lore Familiar, Sea Guard, Elementalism)

Noble [371 pts]
(Hand weapon, Lance, Full plate armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner], Sun Dragon, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet, Dragon Helm, Blood of Caledor)

++ Core Units [421 pts] ++
22 Lothern Sea Guard [321 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Shields, Sea Master (champion), Standard bearer [Razor Standard], Musician)

5 Elven Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Longbows)

5 Elven Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Longbows)

++ Special Units [303 pts] ++
7 Dragon Princes [303 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster [The Cloak of Beards], Standard bearer)

++ Rare Units [160 pts] ++
Eagle-Claw Bolt Thrower [80 pts]

Eagle-Claw Bolt Thrower [80 pts]

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[Axiem]

Looks pretty good --

Only thing I would think about is taking more Sea Guard before adding on Razor Standard. I think the breakeven is something like 24 Sea Guard. Personal preference.

Let us know how you get on!

Kind regards,

Axiem

[Serathail]

Looks pretty good --

Only thing I would think about is taking more Sea Guard before adding on Razor Standard. I think the breakeven is something like 24 Sea Guard. Personal preference.

Let us know how you get on!

Kind regards,

Axiem

That's a fair point, I didn't do so this time because I knew I was going up against bretonnia where there's rarely such a thing as too much AP, but for a more general list in e.g. a tournament I agree that more bodies might be preferable over the banner, especially with PoR on demand on the archmage.
Funnily enough it wouldn't really have mattered too much in this game, we rolled meeting engagement and my seaguard didn't show up on turn 1, and once they did, they were too busy maneuvering and teleporting into a proper position (I don't think I even volley fired a single time before the game ended). Luckily the rest of the army didn't really need the suppport.

As for the game:
Tldr: Pretty decisive victory after dragon princes and dragonrider murdered their way through half the enemy army after a t1 miscalculation on my opponent's part (I also got very lucky and he did get very unlucky with some relevant dice rolls)

In detail:
Bretonnia had a ton of cav (Double KotR, a unit of Questing Knights and some Pegasi) with a Monster Slayer Baron (lucky me) and some peasant archers, squires and the obligatory block of Men-at-Arms which didn't show up on his side. Finally a BSB and a Lv2 Damsel, which allowed my Archmage to dominate the magic phase(s).

I deployed some archers (un-darted due to thematic reasons) in the centre before throwing down a BT on each end of my deployment zone. They really did me a solid this game by hampering/deflecting his deployment, especially given the close deployment zones of meeting engagement and lack of my LSG. Most of his cav was deployed on the flanks hiding behind terrain or trying to sneak up on them thereafter, only the Baron, Questing Knights and archers holding the centre. I kept DP and Noble somewhat central so I could use my first turn to redploy them where needed, as he did have more drops than I did.

Turn 1 I got some shooting (even with an early PoR, the Wizard teleported back to safety thereafter) on the Questing Knights and diminished their number by half. Nothing outstanding though. The Noble on Dragon just screened against the arrival of the Pegasi, Duke and remaining Questings for now. On the right flank of my deployment zone there was however one rather isolated lance of KotR, so I got confrontational with my DP, while while positioning them in a way to make it pretty difficult to advance into the centre of the battlefield without the risk of eating a flank charge by them. Turns out that was the right call, as he charged them with the KotR (presumably either afraid of failing the terror check if charged, expecting to lose by a bit with armour and 5+ ward, give ground on Ld9 and keep the DP busy for long enough so questings & duke could advance along with his massed cav on my left flank, which they did). Well, turns out the DP didn't win by just a bit, but wiped the lance to a man. Which probably lost him the game because now I could reform to face the centre entirely.

Turn 2 my noble impetuously charged the baron (on whom I did cast PoR luckily) and the DP hit the flank of the questings. Their champion saved himself into a challenge, but the rest of the unit was ridden down. He tried to pass on Ld4 without usign stubborn so I wouldn't overrun into the general behind them, but failed to give ground, giving me a disordered charge and second round of combat vs the baron. I didn't offer any challenges and neither did he, since he pretty much had to monster slayer my dragon to beat the 5ish passive combat res stacked against him already, and I could have accepted with my champ. Luckily he proceeded to fail every roll and through a couple lucky rolls on my part the DP charge and a dragon stomp just killed him outright. On his turn he got the BT on my left flank and Also the glorious melee combat of some squires vs the BT on my right flank started; We jokingly decided at this point that taking out the elven siege engines so the HE couldn't besiege a nearby city was actually the true mission of the bretonnians all along.

Turn 3 impetuous almost spelled doom for my dragon princes as they were forced into a max range charge against the remaining KotR, which they failed and left them with pegasus knights in the back. The dragon scattered some enemy archers and reformed to avenge the doomed DP, and nothing happened in the BT vs squires combat as usual.
Naturally, the dragon princes got hit in front and back by KotR (including BSB) and Pegasi. They did kill some 3 KotR again, but proceeded to fail 4/5 subsequent 4+6++ armour saves in turn. Lost combat by 6 while double outnumbered. Save to say I didn't expect to (re)roll a 3 with a little help from the BSB.

Turn 4 the pegasus got hit by the dragon after a PoR and were thoroughly obliterated. meanwhile the DP only dropped another model, but the additional combat res from the noble allowed them to force a give ground on the KotR. They followed up so they wouldn't eat a charge and the dragon overran without swiftstride to position himself behind them, which seemed like a good choice since the remaining 2 DP lost on passive combat res on his turn and he bodyblocked the KotR from running them down (Also just to rub my dice luck in my opponent's face, they did rally on theoretical double 1s the following turn.). On the bright side (for him), the squires finally beat the boltthrower after way too many combat phases.

We pretty much called it there, as the dragon would just tear (well mostly stomp) through the cheap BSB and remaining KotR, and the rest of my army was in position to shoot down the everything else.

[Prince of Spires]

Congrats on the win. Sounds like a dynamic game with some interesting swings in there.

[Serathail]

Since I've enjoyed the list quite a bit, from both a gameplay and thematic standpoint I tried to scale it up to 2000pts with the models I've got painted to see whether it would be a contender for the next tournament (instead of the Eataine-themed army I discussed in another thread. Same rules essentially with limited flying character and the more expensive the mounted monster or chariot, the fewer magic items & similar are allowed).
Not sure how I feel about the high (8-9) number of drops, loosing the first turn of shooting seems suboptimal, but it should allow me to place the impetuous units with much less counter-deployment (and actually scout shadow warriors to get annoying without giving away t1 for once). Also not sure how well this holds up against undead.
More magic items instead of units (e.g. Loadstones, RoF or Banners on the DP, Cloak on the Sea Guard) might fix some of the issues, but leads to a rather elite army again which suffers more vs shooting or deathstars again.

Would be quite interested to hear your thoughts on it, especially from those who have more experience with playing MSU-ish lists.

Sea Dragon Retinue 2k [2000 pts]
++ Characters [616 pts] ++
Archmage [245 pts]
(Warbow, Level 4 Wizard, General, On foot, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Lore Familiar, Sea Guard, Elementalism)

Noble [371 pts]
(Hand weapon, Lance, Full plate armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner], Sun Dragon, Opal Amulet, Dragon Helm, Seed of Rebirth, Blood of Caledor)

++ Core Units [502 pts] ++
25 Lothern Sea Guard [352 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Shields, Sea Master (champion), Standard bearer [Razor Standard])

5 Elven Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Longbows)

5 Elven Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Longbows)

5 Elven Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Longbows)

++ Special Units [722 pts] ++
7 Dragon Princes [303 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster [The Cloak of Beards], Standard bearer)

7 Dragon Princes [273 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster, Standard bearer)

5 Shadow Warriors [76 pts]
(Longbows, Light armour, Shadow Walker)

5 Shadow Warriors [70 pts]
(Longbows, Light armour)

++ Rare Units [160 pts] ++
Eagle-Claw Bolt Thrower [80 pts]

Eagle-Claw Bolt Thrower [80 pts]

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[Serathail]

So one thing that bugged me a bit about the previous version of the list was the lack of a general with decent Ld (technically it only really matters for the sea guard and the occasional terror check on redirectors, but I'm not too keen to fail either of those).
Now since the format basically makes princes on any dragon mount useless and getting an additional noble for the sole purpose of Ld9 and maybe a BotSF seems overkill, I did experiment with fitting a storm weaver in the list.

Probably still not as good as just another archmage, but slightly cheaper and with Ld9, WoP, Doombolt and Battlelust (or occasionally phantasmagoria) synergizes rather well with the shoot & charge list. -1T -2 armour can get units absolutely melted by shooting (which also reduces some concerns I had vs undead). That paired with battlelust also makes DP rather scary once the time to charge comes, even to T6 units. It also means I'm probably bound to get least one of the two debuffs off each round as I essentially get 3 rolls and enemy wizards might struggle to get into dispell (or infernal puppet) range of both spellcasters.

Part of me wants to mount him on a unicorn so I can run him along the dragon princes, make him a bit harder to catch and/or kill while not needing need to bunch him up near the other mage in the seaguard or take the risk of having him only get LoS from only a 5 man squad of archers, but I really don't know what to cut for it. Warbanner, Ruby Ring and Cloak of Beards all seem more valuable, I want to keep the DP sizeable enough to be a threat and cutting any more shooting might put me under that critical volume of fire.

Not entirely sure yet which option I prefer between 2-0 shadow warrior squad(s) to annoy and delay some enemy units, and 0-2 BTs for some more consistent damage vs high toughness and threats of flank shots to make advancing difficult either, I'll have to try it out.


Sea Dragon Retinue Stormweaver [2000 pts]
++ Characters [776 pts] ++
Storm Weaver [175 pts]
(Hand weapon, Level 3 Wizard, General, On foot, Lore Familiar, Dark Magic)

Noble [371 pts]
(Hand weapon, Lance, Full plate armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner], Sun Dragon, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet, Dragon Helm, Blood of Caledor)

Archmage [230 pts]
(Hand weapon, Level 4 Wizard, On foot, Silvery Wand, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Elementalism)

++ Core Units [502 pts] ++
25 Lothern Sea Guard [352 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Shields, Sea Master (champion), Standard bearer [Razor Standard])

5 Elven Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Longbows)

5 Elven Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Longbows)

5 Elven Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Longbows)

++ Special Units [722 pts] ++
7 Dragon Princes [303 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster [The Cloak of Beards], Standard bearer)

7 Dragon Princes [273 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster, Standard bearer)

5 Shadow Warriors [76 pts]
(Longbows, Light armour, Shadow Walker)

5 Shadow Warriors [70 pts]
(Longbows, Light armour)

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Sea Dragon Retinue Unicorn Variation [2000 pts]
++ Characters [811 pts] ++
Storm Weaver [210 pts]
(Hand weapon, Level 3 Wizard, General, Unicorn, Lore Familiar, Dark Magic)

Archmage [230 pts]
(Warbow, Level 4 Wizard, On foot, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Silvery Wand, Sea Guard, Elementalism)

Noble [371 pts]
(Hand weapon, Lance, Full plate armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner], Sun Dragon, Opal Amulet, Dragon Helm, Seed of Rebirth, Blood of Caledor)

++ Core Units [502 pts] ++
25 Lothern Sea Guard [352 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Shields, Sea Master (champion), Standard bearer [Razor Standard])

5 Elven Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Longbows)

5 Elven Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Longbows)

5 Elven Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Longbows)

++ Special Units [687 pts] ++
7 Dragon Princes [303 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster [The Cloak of Beards], Standard bearer)

7 Dragon Princes [273 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster, Standard bearer)

7 Shadow Warriors [111 pts]
(Longbows, Light armour, Feigned Flight, Shadow Walker)

---

On another note (and another edit): I could also replace the Stormweaver with Ishaya Vess for Ld9 to make the seaguard scarier (AP1-3, up to 5 with PoR is quite something, along with some more melee prowess). Although she's more consistent, the unit is probably too small to make her worth taking over the versatility provided by 3 dark magic spells tho (and I would swap out some archers, but I don't have enough LSG). I'm still on the fence however, she might just make the sea guard that extra bit scarier to engage...

++ Characters [771 pts] ++
Ishaya Vess [170 pts]
(Hand weapon, Mathlann's Ire, Warbow, Heavy armour, Shield, General)

Archmage [230 pts]
(Warbow, Level 4 Wizard, On foot, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Silvery Wand, Sea Guard, Elementalism)

Noble [371 pts]
(Hand weapon, Lance, Full plate armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner], Sun Dragon, Opal Amulet, Dragon Helm, Seed of Rebirth, Blood of Caledor)

++ Core Units [507 pts] ++
25 Lothern Sea Guard [357 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Shields, Sea Master (champion), Standard bearer [Razor Standard], Musician)

5 Elven Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Longbows)

5 Elven Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Longbows)

5 Elven Archers [50 pts]
(Hand weapons, Longbows)

++ Special Units [722 pts] ++
7 Dragon Princes [303 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster [The Cloak of Beards], Standard bearer)

7 Dragon Princes [273 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster, Standard bearer)

5 Shadow Warriors [76 pts]
(Longbows, Light armour, Shadow Walker)

5 Shadow Warriors [70 pts]
(Longbows, Light armour)

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