1250 Pts Caledorian Ladder League

[Turion Rilyaloce]

I’m not really viewing this as a league but a feeding ground…

Starting as a baby Dragon proxy, and building up to 1500 and 2000 over 3 months.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

List 1

===
Tor Caled Cadets [1249 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, High Elf Realms
===

++ Characters [460 pts] ++

Archmage [310 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 4 Wizard
- Great Eagle
- Silvery Wand
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Seed of Rebirth
- Pure of Heart
- High Magic

Noble [150 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Sword of Hoeth
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Bow of Avelorn
- General
- On foot
- Flying Carpet
- Dragon Helm
- Warden of Saphery

++ Core Units [321 pts] ++

22 Lothern Sea Guard [321 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Thrusting spears
- Warbows
- Light armour
- Shields
- Sea Master (champion)
- Standard bearer [Razor Standard]
- Musician

++ Special Units [348 pts] ++

5 Dragon Princes [222 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Lances
- Full plate armour
- Shields
- Barding
- Drakemaster [The Cloak of Beards]

8 Swordmasters of Hoeth [126 pts]
- Swords of Hoeth
- Heavy armour
- Drilled
- Bladelord

++ Rare Units [120 pts] ++

Great Eagle [60 pts]

Great Eagle [60 pts]

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

[Turion Rilyaloce]

List 2

===
Kor Evril Cadets [1250 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, High Elf Realms
===

++ Characters [388 pts] ++

Prince [248 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Sword of Hoeth
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- General
- On foot
- Reaver Bow
- Flying Carpet
- Seed of Rebirth
- Warden of Saphery

Mage [140 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 2 Wizard
- On foot
- Lore Familiar
- Sea Guard
- Elementalism

++ Core Units [321 pts] ++

22 Lothern Sea Guard [321 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Thrusting spears
- Warbows
- Light armour
- Shields
- Sea Master (champion)
- Standard bearer [Razor Standard]
- Musician

++ Special Units [421 pts] ++

5 Dragon Princes [229 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Lances
- Full plate armour
- Shields
- Barding
- Drakemaster [The Cloak of Beards]
- Standard bearer

5 Swordmasters of Hoeth [111 pts]
- Swords of Hoeth
- Heavy armour
- Drilled
- Bladelord [Ruby Ring of Ruin]

5 Swordmasters of Hoeth [81 pts]
- Swords of Hoeth
- Heavy armour
- Drilled
- Bladelord

++ Rare Units [120 pts] ++

Great Eagle [60 pts]

Great Eagle [60 pts]

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

[Turion Rilyaloce]

Both lists have a theme of playing the mobile shooting characters on the fringe of an army and pick off redirectors or targets of opportunity.

The magic missiles and Razor Standard Seaguard will try and provide some ranged pressure.

In the first list they’ll have to be more independent of direct magic support, as the Archmage will probably be looking to get FoK on Dragon Princes or Swordmasters.

In the second the embedded mage will be directly supporting them and the Princes Reaver bow with Plague of Rust. The second spell will be situational but likely Earthen Ramparts.

Warden of Saphery and Flying carpet seems like such a cool character build as the honour gives you a substantial magic weapon, killing blow, and a shooting ward for 10pts and doesn’t come out of your magic item allowance.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

I think both are susceptible to LD issues with no BSB and some flying Lords that will need to be off being aggressive at times. Also not many ways to deal with monsters other than redirecting.

If that becomes a real issue I have a 3rd list with an actual dragon to play.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

List 3

===
Tor Belerian Patrol [1249 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, High Elf Realms
===

++ Characters [555 pts] ++

Noble [400 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Full plate armour
- Battle Standard Bearer [Battle Banner]
- Sun Dragon
- Dragon Helm
- Seed of Rebirth
- Biting Blade
- Charmed Shield
- Blood of Caledor

Mage [155 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 2 Wizard
- General
- On foot
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Silvery Wand
- Sea Guard
- Elementalism

++ Core Units [316 pts] ++

22 Lothern Sea Guard [316 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Thrusting spears
- Warbows
- Light armour
- Shields
- Sea Master (champion)
- Standard bearer [Razor Standard]

++ Special Units [318 pts] ++

5 Dragon Princes [222 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Lances
- Full plate armour
- Shields
- Barding
- Drakemaster [The Cloak of Beards]

6 Swordmasters of Hoeth [96 pts]
- Swords of Hoeth
- Heavy armour
- Drilled
- Bladelord

++ Rare Units [60 pts] ++

Great Eagle [60 pts]

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

[Axiem]

A-freaking-mazing. I'm glad you carried the concept through!

Is the goal that this Noble is going to fill the role?

Noble [150 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Sword of Hoeth
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Bow of Avelorn
- General
- On foot
- Flying Carpet
- Dragon Helm
- Warden of Saphery

If so, then I can't see myself leaving him at home, as you have it in List 3.

I think both are susceptible to LD issues with no BSB and some flying Lords that will need to be off being aggressive at times. Also not many ways to deal with monsters other than redirecting.

If that becomes a real issue I have a 3rd list with an actual dragon to play.

I regularly play without a BSB. I do not really miss it, but it does modify my play slightly. I find Veteran and army composition mitigates a lot of this as well.

What kind of environment are you expecting to play in?

In general, I like List #1 the best, but personally I don't like taking 2x Eagles, especially in small games like this, because if their only role is misdirector, then it feels to me like a major chunk of my army isn't present. Instead, I'd try to find 30 more points and upgrade the Eagle to a Skycutter Chariot, which I think will give you another threat which the list could end up needing.

If you do go the route of List 2, I would drop the Standard, and Drilled from both Swordmaster units in favor of increasing their unit sizes as high as you can. I really like Drilled on Swordmasters, but at 5 models it's just too many points in too few wounds. Same concept for Ruby Ring -- I would rather go with Ruby Ring + Silver Wand on the Mage over Lore Familiar personally.

One other note: your Character cannot have both Sword of Hoeth and Bow of Avelorn (Warden prohibits taking multiple other weapons if you take Sword of Hoeth).

You talk about a flying lord: you can also m make the Skycutter the mount for your Mage, and beef him up a little. Something like this:

High Elf Realms - 1250 - [1246pts]

# ++ Main Force ++ [1246pts]
## Characters [513pts]
Archmage [375pts]: Hand Weapon, Sea Guard, Wizard Level 4, Illusion, Warbow, The White Sword, Lore Familiar
• 1x Lothern Skycutter [90pts]: 3x Sea Guard Crew, Cavalry Spear, Hand Weapon, Shortbow, Swiftfeather Roc (Wicked Claws)
Noble [138pts]: Hand Weapon, Shield, General, Warden of Saphery, Full Plate Armour, Dragon Helm, Flying Carpet, Sword of Hoeth

## Core [325pts]
Lothern Sea Guard [325pts]: Magic Standard, Veterans
• 21x Lothern Sea Guard [12pts]: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Thrusting Spear, Warbow, Shield
• 1x Sea Master [7pts]
• 1x Standard Bearer [45pts]: Razor Standard

## Special [348pts]
Dragon Princes [222pts]:
• 5x Dragon Prince [37pts]: Barded Elven Steed (Barding, Hand Weapon), Full Plate Armour, Hand Weapon, Lance, Shield
• 1x Drakemaster [37pts]: The Cloak of Beards
Swordmasters of Hoeth [126pts]:
• 8x Swordmaster [15pts]: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Sword of Hoeth, Drilled
• 1x Bladelord [6pts]

## Rare [60pts]
Great Eagles [60pts]:
• 1x Great Eagle [60pts]: Serrated Maw, Wicked Claws

+4

TOTAL: 1250

You have the choice of Cloak of Beards, or the Skycutter having the Bolt Thrower, both are reasonable. I might take the Cloak of Beards for games like this, personally.

If I wasn't putting the Mage on the Skycutter, this is what I would take instead:

High Elf Realms - 1250 - [1250pts]

# ++ Main Force ++ [1250pts]
## Characters [368pts]
Archmage [230pts]: Hand Weapon, Pure of Heart, Wizard Level 4, High Magic, Silvery Wand, Ruby Ring of Ruin
Noble [138pts]: Hand Weapon, Shield, General, Warden of Saphery, Full Plate Armour, Dragon Helm, Flying Carpet, Sword of Hoeth

## Core [325pts]
Lothern Sea Guard [325pts]: Magic Standard, Veterans
• 21x Lothern Sea Guard [12pts]: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Thrusting Spear, Warbow, Shield
• 1x Sea Master [7pts]
• 1x Standard Bearer [45pts]: Razor Standard

## Special [327pts]
Dragon Princes [222pts]:
• 5x Dragon Prince [37pts]: Barded Elven Steed (Barding, Hand Weapon), Full Plate Armour, Hand Weapon, Lance, Shield
• 1x Drakemaster [37pts]: The Cloak of Beards
Swordmasters of Hoeth [105pts]:
• 7x Swordmaster [15pts]: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Sword of Hoeth, Drilled

## Rare [230pts]
Lothern Skycutters [115pts]:
• 1x Lothern Skycutter [115pts]: 3x Sea Guard Crew, Cavalry Spear, Hand Weapon, Shortbow, Swiftfeather Roc (Wicked Claws), Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower
Lothern Skycutters [115pts]:
• 1x Lothern Skycutter [115pts]: 3x Sea Guard Crew, Cavalry Spear, Hand Weapon, Shortbow, Swiftfeather Roc (Wicked Claws), Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower

Misdirectors are important, but in small games they are less important than having enough threats for a variety of situations, which is I think the problem you're running into here. Your misdirectors here are the Swordmasters and the Skycutters when, and this is the key, you actually need them: otherwise they're combat/ranged threats in their own right, which is something you can't say about the Giant Eagles.

If you don't have Skycutters, my next best suggestion would be filling those slots with, in order, either a) Sisters; b) Tiranoc / Lion Chariots; c) Silver Helms.

Hope it helps!

Kind regards,

Axiem

[Axiem]

PS: I'm working on my Dragon Skycutters for my Characters, maybe you could do something similar and stay in the Dragon theme? Might post some pictures when they're in a more complete status.

Kind regards,

Axiem

[Turion Rilyaloce]

A-freaking-mazing. I'm glad you carried the concept through!

Is the goal that this Noble is going to fill the role?

Noble [150 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Sword of Hoeth
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Bow of Avelorn
- General
- On foot
- Flying Carpet
- Dragon Helm
- Warden of Saphery

If so, then I can't see myself leaving him at home, as you have it in List 3.

I think both are susceptible to LD issues with no BSB and some flying Lords that will need to be off being aggressive at times. Also not many ways to deal with monsters other than redirecting.

If that becomes a real issue I have a 3rd list with an actual dragon to play.

I regularly play without a BSB. I do not really miss it, but it does modify my play slightly. I find Veteran and army composition mitigates a lot of this as well.

What kind of environment are you expecting to play in?

In general, I like List #1 the best, but personally I don't like taking 2x Eagles, especially in small games like this, because if their only role is misdirector, then it feels to me like a major chunk of my army isn't present. Instead, I'd try to find 30 more points and upgrade the Eagle to a Skycutter Chariot, which I think will give you another threat which the list could end up needing.

If you do go the route of List 2, I would drop the Standard, and Drilled from both Swordmaster units in favor of increasing their unit sizes as high as you can. I really like Drilled on Swordmasters, but at 5 models it's just too many points in too few wounds. Same concept for Ruby Ring -- I would rather go with Ruby Ring + Silver Wand on the Mage over Lore Familiar personally.

One other note: your Character cannot have both Sword of Hoeth and Bow of Avelorn (Warden prohibits taking multiple other weapons if you take Sword of Hoeth).

You talk about a flying lord: you can also m make the Skycutter the mount for your Mage, and beef him up a little. Something like this:

High Elf Realms - 1250 - [1246pts]

# ++ Main Force ++ [1246pts]
## Characters [513pts]
Archmage [375pts]: Hand Weapon, Sea Guard, Wizard Level 4, Illusion, Warbow, The White Sword, Lore Familiar
• 1x Lothern Skycutter [90pts]: 3x Sea Guard Crew, Cavalry Spear, Hand Weapon, Shortbow, Swiftfeather Roc (Wicked Claws)
Noble [138pts]: Hand Weapon, Shield, General, Warden of Saphery, Full Plate Armour, Dragon Helm, Flying Carpet, Sword of Hoeth

## Core [325pts]
Lothern Sea Guard [325pts]: Magic Standard, Veterans
• 21x Lothern Sea Guard [12pts]: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Thrusting Spear, Warbow, Shield
• 1x Sea Master [7pts]
• 1x Standard Bearer [45pts]: Razor Standard

## Special [348pts]
Dragon Princes [222pts]:
• 5x Dragon Prince [37pts]: Barded Elven Steed (Barding, Hand Weapon), Full Plate Armour, Hand Weapon, Lance, Shield
• 1x Drakemaster [37pts]: The Cloak of Beards
Swordmasters of Hoeth [126pts]:
• 8x Swordmaster [15pts]: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Sword of Hoeth, Drilled
• 1x Bladelord [6pts]

## Rare [60pts]
Great Eagles [60pts]:
• 1x Great Eagle [60pts]: Serrated Maw, Wicked Claws

+4

TOTAL: 1250

You have the choice of Cloak of Beards, or the Skycutter having the Bolt Thrower, both are reasonable. I might take the Cloak of Beards for games like this, personally.

If I wasn't putting the Mage on the Skycutter, this is what I would take instead:

High Elf Realms - 1250 - [1250pts]

# ++ Main Force ++ [1250pts]
## Characters [368pts]
Archmage [230pts]: Hand Weapon, Pure of Heart, Wizard Level 4, High Magic, Silvery Wand, Ruby Ring of Ruin
Noble [138pts]: Hand Weapon, Shield, General, Warden of Saphery, Full Plate Armour, Dragon Helm, Flying Carpet, Sword of Hoeth

## Core [325pts]
Lothern Sea Guard [325pts]: Magic Standard, Veterans
• 21x Lothern Sea Guard [12pts]: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Thrusting Spear, Warbow, Shield
• 1x Sea Master [7pts]
• 1x Standard Bearer [45pts]: Razor Standard

## Special [327pts]
Dragon Princes [222pts]:
• 5x Dragon Prince [37pts]: Barded Elven Steed (Barding, Hand Weapon), Full Plate Armour, Hand Weapon, Lance, Shield
• 1x Drakemaster [37pts]: The Cloak of Beards
Swordmasters of Hoeth [105pts]:
• 7x Swordmaster [15pts]: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Sword of Hoeth, Drilled

## Rare [230pts]
Lothern Skycutters [115pts]:
• 1x Lothern Skycutter [115pts]: 3x Sea Guard Crew, Cavalry Spear, Hand Weapon, Shortbow, Swiftfeather Roc (Wicked Claws), Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower
Lothern Skycutters [115pts]:
• 1x Lothern Skycutter [115pts]: 3x Sea Guard Crew, Cavalry Spear, Hand Weapon, Shortbow, Swiftfeather Roc (Wicked Claws), Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower

Misdirectors are important, but in small games they are less important than having enough threats for a variety of situations, which is I think the problem you're running into here. Your misdirectors here are the Swordmasters and the Skycutters when, and this is the key, you actually need them: otherwise they're combat/ranged threats in their own right, which is something you can't say about the Giant Eagles.

If you don't have Skycutters, my next best suggestion would be filling those slots with, in order, either a) Sisters; b) Tiranoc / Lion Chariots; c) Silver Helms.

Hope it helps!

Kind regards,

Axiem

Hello Axiem, wow!! Thanks for such a detailed response.

Toothless is meant to represent the Noble in lists 1/3 and the Prince in list 2.

I don’t really know what environment to expect as it’s a mix of brand new player and experienced ones. So as usual I try and build all comers.

The suggestion of an upgrade to a Skycutter actually is brilliant, I checked the base size and it’s the same as a Dragon, so I’ll just proxy my smaller Dragon as one until we build up points. It’s easier to get my Archmage on it than an eagle and I’ll just make it clear to my opponents what it’s represents to keep the theme.

For the regular mage, the reason I wanted the the Lore familiar was that I saw him as directly supporting the Seaguard and Reaver Bow Prince in List 2 so in my mind I need Plague of Rust, and then being able to pick the other spell based on opponent is desirable.

Thanks for catching the Bow of Avelorn miscue before I tried to field it.

And last, I take 2 Eagles because I find I always lose one early, so if I need 1 I take 2, if I need 2 I take 3.

I’m going to rejig things based on your advice and come back for some discussion.

Thank you!!!

[bkevs84]

I love a themed list! And I agree with Axiem on the skycutters. I am a firm beliver in them, and worshiper at the cult of the flying chariot. Compared to an eagle, they hit harder, have better leadership, and a save, and at 90 points don't feel too bad if I have the chaff one or sacrifice it someplace. The value added for +30 points is nearly always worth it, probably because the eagle is over priced. Those S5 ap-2 D3+1 impacts from being a heavy chariot with fly 10 is too good to pass up. Be warned I find it hard to leave home with out them.

I have 3d printed some smaller dynamic phoenixes to pull mine to fit a phoenix gaurd themed list. And will 3d print different draft creatures to fit different lists.

Another plus is they look big and scary they may also pull attention away from other units.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

I love a themed list! And I agree with Axiem on the skycutters. I am a firm beliver in them, and worshiper at the cult of the flying chariot. Compared to an eagle, they hit harder, have better leadership, and a save, and at 90 points don't feel too bad if I have the chaff one or sacrifice it someplace. The value added for +30 points is nearly always worth it, probably because the eagle is over priced. Those S5 ap-2 D3+1 impacts from being a heavy chariot with fly 10 is too good to pass up. Be warned I find it hard to leave home with out them.

I have 3d printed some smaller dynamic phoenixes to pull mine to fit a phoenix gaurd themed list. And will 3d print different draft creatures to fit different lists.

Another plus is they look big and scary they may also pull attention away from other units.

Yet another rave review, I’ll have to try it. It is quite shocking that the gap is only 30 pts for what you get.

Now is there any tricks for piloting chariots? I have never run one in my life in any form. They don’t like getting charged I assume but with fly 10 that’s up to me to minimize. Anything else?

I can’t wait to see your custom sky cutters critters. Please @ me when you post them.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

Okay here is a new list with the advice from Axiem and Bkevs84.

Archmage will be riding my medium Dragon Proxy as a skycutter mount.

Noble is proxied as Toothless.

===
Tor Caled Cadets [1249 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, High Elf Realms
===

++ Characters [498 pts] ++

Archmage [360 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 4 Wizard
- Lothern Skycutter
- Silvery Wand
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Seed of Rebirth
- Opal Amulet
- Sea Guard
- High Magic

Noble [138 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Sword of Hoeth
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- General
- On foot
- Flying Carpet
- Dragon Helm
- Warden of Saphery

++ Core Units [321 pts] ++

22 Lothern Sea Guard [321 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Thrusting spears
- Warbows
- Light armour
- Shields
- Sea Master (champion)
- Standard bearer [Razor Standard]
- Musician

++ Special Units [370 pts] ++

6 Dragon Princes [259 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Lances
- Full plate armour
- Shields
- Barding
- Drakemaster [The Cloak of Beards]

7 Swordmasters of Hoeth [111 pts]
- Swords of Hoeth
- Heavy armour
- Drilled
- Bladelord

++ Rare Units [60 pts] ++

Great Eagle [60 pts]

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

[Turion Rilyaloce]

Did some work on Toothless today, using a chromatic black technique to have warm tones on the underside where the ground would introduce earthy colours to the black sheen, and the cool tones on the upper half where the sky would do the opposite.

It’s a great way of painting a model that’s mostly black in my opinion as it adds a lot of variety and subtly to a usually flat and boring task.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

NIGHT FURRRYYYYY!!

The flying warden noble is done.

[Axiem]

List looks great, and Toothless looks even better!

Let us know how you get on with it!

Kind regards,

Axiem

[Turion Rilyaloce]

List looks great, and Toothless looks even better!

Let us know how you get on with it!

Kind regards,

Axiem

That was the most stippling I’ve ever done haha.

Thank you for the advice, I’m actually excited to play even without a true Dragon at the start.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

So I’m off to a fast start in the league with 3 wins in 3 games.

I have a Druchii matchup tomorrow. I’m expecting a lvl 4 on Dark Pegasus. What else do I have to look out for at this points level or in general?

[Turion Rilyaloce]

Won the game against the Druchii.

It all came down to insane bravery and discipline from the Seaguard.

The final turn the enemy got a Beastmaster on Manticore on 2 wounds to charge my front. Pass Terror check. A Kharybdis was on a long flank charge.

I stand and shoot, killing the general. And redress to deny the flank charge. Game sons of Ulthuan.

[Axiem]

Won the game against the Druchii.

It all came down to insane bravery and discipline from the Seaguard.

The final turn the enemy got a Beastmaster on Manticore on 2 wounds to charge my front. Pass Terror check. A Kharybdis was on a long flank charge.

I stand and shoot, killing the general. And redress to deny the flank charge. Game sons of Ulthuan.

Congrats!

Always a pleasure crushing our dark cousins!

Kind regards,

Axiem

[Turion Rilyaloce]

Won the game against the Druchii.

It all came down to insane bravery and discipline from the Seaguard.

The final turn the enemy got a Beastmaster on Manticore on 2 wounds to charge my front. Pass Terror check. A Kharybdis was on a long flank charge.

I stand and shoot, killing the general. And redress to deny the flank charge. Game sons of Ulthuan.

Congrats!

Always a pleasure crushing our dark cousins!

Kind regards,

Axiem

Thank you! Naval discipline is proving to be one of my favourite rules.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

This is my current list for the league in which I’m in first place with 7 wins out of 7 and all painting points achieved.

++ Characters [468 pts] ++
Archmage [330 pts]
(Warbow, Level 4 Wizard, Lothern Skycutter, Silvery Wand, Seed of Rebirth, Dispel Scroll, Sea Guard, High Magic)

Noble [138 pts]
(Hand weapon, Sword of Hoeth, Full plate armour, Shield, General, On foot, Flying Carpet, Dragon Helm, Warden of Saphery)

++ Core Units [326 pts] ++
24 Lothern Sea Guard [326 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Sea Master (champion) [Charmed Shield], Standard bearer [Razor Standard], Musician)

++ Special Units [395 pts] ++
6 Dragon Princes [254 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster [Ring of Fury])

7 Swordmasters of Hoeth [141 pts]
(Swords of Hoeth, Heavy armour, Drilled, Bladelord [Ruby Ring of Ruin])

++ Rare Units [60 pts] ++
Great Eagle [60 pts]

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

Now next game I’m up against a new player who is running a Black Dragon at 1250… now I’m unsure if I have the tools to deal with it in this list.

Should I bring a dragon of my own? You can change lists at anytime, so no legality.

The leagues general vibe has been chill but I don’t know if this player understands what a maxed dragon does to the game at this low a points level.

And I don’t want to lose my first game based on that lol.

Do you think I can play around it? Or should I start a dance of dragons and make sure Caledor doesn’t suffer an abomination escaping this battle?

[Serathail]

This is my current list for the league in which I’m in first place with 7 wins out of 7 and all painting points achieved.

++ Characters [468 pts] ++
Archmage [330 pts]
(Warbow, Level 4 Wizard, Lothern Skycutter, Silvery Wand, Seed of Rebirth, Dispel Scroll, Sea Guard, High Magic)

Noble [138 pts]
(Hand weapon, Sword of Hoeth, Full plate armour, Shield, General, On foot, Flying Carpet, Dragon Helm, Warden of Saphery)

++ Core Units [326 pts] ++
24 Lothern Sea Guard [326 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Sea Master (champion) [Charmed Shield], Standard bearer [Razor Standard], Musician)

++ Special Units [395 pts] ++
6 Dragon Princes [254 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster [Ring of Fury])

7 Swordmasters of Hoeth [141 pts]
(Swords of Hoeth, Heavy armour, Drilled, Bladelord [Ruby Ring of Ruin])

++ Rare Units [60 pts] ++
Great Eagle [60 pts]

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

Now next game I’m up against a new player who is running a Black Dragon at 1250… now I’m unsure if I have the tools to deal with it in this list.

Should I bring a dragon of my own? You can change lists at anytime, so no legality.

The leagues general vibe has been chill but I don’t know if this player understands what a maxed dragon does to the game at this low a points level.

And I don’t want to lose my first game based on that lol.

Do you think I can play around it? Or should I start a dance of dragons and make sure Caledor doesn’t suffer an abomination escaping this battle?

Dealing with it will be difficult with that list, just from a statistical standpoint. Even if her runs him without magic items (shield + lance only for a 3+ armour save) the sea guard only kills about 1.5 wounds per turn shooting (at an average -1 to hit). Charging DPs also only do about 1.5 wounds on average (2 with with FoK active), assuming the strikes first lord doesn't murder some of them before they even get to strike.
Maybe changing the skycutter archmage and illusionist could do the trick.

I'm thinking something like this:
++ Characters [462 pts] ++
Noble [102 pts]
(Hand weapon, Sword of Hoeth, Full plate armour, Shield, Longbow, General, On foot, Dragon Helm, Warden of Saphery)

Archmage [360 pts]
(Warbow, Level 4 Wizard, Lothern Skycutter, Seed of Rebirth, Dragon Slaying Sword, Silvery Wand, Sea Guard, Illusion)

++ Core Units [333 pts] ++
23 Lothern Sea Guard [333 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Shields, Sea Master (champion), Standard bearer [Razor Standard], Musician)

++ Special Units [395 pts] ++
6 Dragon Princes [254 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster [Ring of Fury])

7 Swordmasters of Hoeth [141 pts]
(Swords of Hoeth, Heavy armour, Drilled, Bladelord [Ruby Ring of Ruin])

++ Rare Units [60 pts] ++
Great Eagle [60 pts]
---

Illusionist is aiming for Miasmic Mirage (immobilize dragon), Spectral Doppelgänger (keeping dragon honest with the threat of that 6), Column of Crystal (immobilize dragon) and Shimmering Dragon (give back the flying carpet to the noble in a celadorian fashion). Any of the other two spells can be exchanged for any signatures, glittering robe being arguably the best. Cutting some points to get lore familiar might be worth it, for getting both leadership spells vs DE might be suboptimal, and the signature isn't necessarily needed. I'm assuming DE won't have a good mage on top of that dragon, so the Lv4 + blessing should force the most important spells through.
Dragon Slayer sword might be a bit macabre for a caledor list, so something like giant blade might be decent cheap and less anti-dragon focussed alternative, while still being an okay threat. Or drop Dragon Slaying Sword + SoRB for White Sword.
Or just drop spectral DG alltogether and rely on the two paralyzation spells, maybe with 1-2 power scrolls for the cost instead.

No guarantees it will work, but it's the most annoying threat I could come up with while retaining the character of the list.

(Small Edit: I just noticed shimmering dragon has too short of a range and doesn't allow the character to use Fly(10) to charge, so that part isn't optimal. Though considering what DE usually bring, I'd assume he wouldn't want to stray too far from friendly units anyway, lest he be turned into a pincushion)

[Turion Rilyaloce]

This is very good suggestion. Thank you!

[Turion Rilyaloce]

I guess the other option is to bristle at both his use of an abomination and hubris for bringing a stunted dragon against a force from Caledor. In these cases I’m sure Dragon Lords would unleash proscribed or forbidden weapons.

++ Characters [537 pts] ++
Prince [537 pts]
(Hand weapon, Full plate armour, Shield, General, Star Dragon, Dragon Slaying Sword, Dragon Helm, Opal Amulet, Seed of Rebirth, Blood of Caledor)

++ Core Units [321 pts] ++
22 Lothern Sea Guard [321 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Shields, Sea Master (champion), Standard bearer [Razor Standard], Musician)

++ Special Units [388 pts] ++
6 Dragon Princes [254 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster [Ring of Fury])

7 Swordmasters of Hoeth [134 pts]
(Swords of Hoeth, Heavy armour, Bladelord [Ruby Ring of Ruin])

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

Could also sub in the Star Lance and make the SM drilled.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

Just finished my Skycutter proxy. Archmage Anduriel on the Sun Dragon Rylanash

[Turion Rilyaloce]

So league is up to 1500 pts this round.

I’m going with mostly the same units outside characters, that’s where the real change will happen.

I have 2 lists made. I think the Archmage on StarDragon is the most competitive choice. I’m undefeated right now, so might play that until I lose. Then I’ll just play the others and find out how fun they are.

Here are the following lists for 1500, let me know what you think.

Vauls Guardian

++ Characters [728 pts] ++
Archmage [590 pts]
(Hand weapon, Full plate armour, Level 4 Wizard, Star Dragon, Opal Amulet, Seed of Rebirth, Silvery Wand, Star Lance, Blood of Caledor, Illusion)

Noble [138 pts]
(Hand weapon, Sword of Hoeth, Full plate armour, Shield, General, On foot, Flying Carpet, Dragon Helm, Warden of Saphery)

++ Core Units [376 pts] ++
29 Lothern Sea Guard [376 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Sea Master (champion), Standard bearer [Razor Standard], Musician)

++ Special Units [335 pts] ++
5 Dragon Princes [224 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster [Ring of Fury], Standard bearer)

5 Swordmasters of Hoeth [111 pts]
(Swords of Hoeth, Heavy armour, Drilled, Bladelord [Ruby Ring of Ruin])

++ Rare Units [60 pts] ++
Great Eagle [60 pts]

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

[Turion Rilyaloce]

In this list I proxy the Skycutter as a dragon. I usually run the noble with biting blade but will try the great weapon this round.

Tor Caled Patrol

++ Characters [714 pts] ++
Noble [404 pts]
(Hand weapon, Great weapon, Full plate armour, Battle Standard Bearer [Battle Banner], Sun Dragon, Dragon Helm, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet, Blood of Caledor)

Archmage [310 pts]
(Warbow, Level 4 Wizard, General, Lothern Skycutter, Silvery Wand, Seed of Rebirth, Sea Guard, High Magic)

++ Core Units [377 pts] ++
25 Lothern Sea Guard [377 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Shields, Sea Master (champion) [The Loremaster's Cloak], Standard bearer [Razor Standard])

++ Special Units [408 pts] ++
6 Dragon Princes [274 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster [Star Lance])

7 Swordmasters of Hoeth [134 pts]
(Swords of Hoeth, Heavy armour, Bladelord [Ruby Ring of Ruin])

—-

[Turion Rilyaloce]

And finally the least spend on characters with the Archmage mostly supporting the Seaguard.

++ Characters [636 pts] ++
Noble [406 pts]
(Hand weapon, Great weapon, Full plate armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer [Battle Banner], Sun Dragon, Dragon Helm, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet, Blood of Caledor)

Archmage [230 pts]
(Warbow, Level 4 Wizard, General, On foot, Silvery Wand, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Sea Guard, Elementalism)

++ Core Units [381 pts] ++
27 Lothern Sea Guard [381 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Shields, Sea Master (champion), Standard bearer [Razor Standard], Musician)

++ Special Units [422 pts] ++
6 Dragon Princes [271 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster [The Cloak of Beards + Charmed Shield], Standard bearer)

8 Swordmasters of Hoeth [151 pts]
(Swords of Hoeth, Heavy armour, Drilled, Bladelord [Ring of Fury])

++ Rare Units [60 pts] ++
Great Eagle [60 pts]

---

[Prince of Spires]

I think all are fine. Personally, especially since you're undefeated, I would simply pick the one that looks most fun to you and go with that. Worry about powerlevel later.

[Anduil of Elithis]

I'm in agreement with Prince here. Personally, I fear the Stardragon might be a bit too much for many armies to deal with at 1500 points and may lead to unfun games. But if that is the power level of your league, you can also go that route.