Impetous-when can you declare a charge?

[Ramesesis]

So, it might just be me being old, grumpy and slow but I am a bit confused about this.

It say in the rules that if impetous unit can deckare a charge they must.
Those it mean that a unit can see an enemy right from the start 24 inch away they must charge? Even if they cannot charge that far?
Or does "Can declare a charge" mean that if they theoretically can reach them, as in they roll highest possible on the charge roll. Say a unit of spearelves having a theoretical charge range of 11 inch (5+6) and are impetous they must test if there is an enemy within 11 in their charge arc?
Or must they start testing from the get go if there is an enemy in front but on the other side of the table?

Then we come to characters and units. If a unit is impetous and is joined by a non-impetous character, that character must follow the unit, in practice becoming impetous.
But if the character is impetous and the unit is not, does the unit become impetous? Or will the character charge out of the unit if he fail his test?

[VictorK]

Well my old friend, with the new rules regarding a unit's maximum charge range (which strangely sometimes does not seem to be its maximum charge range, as I read the swiftstride rule, though the 3" addition to maximum possible charge range from a rule that can add 6" to a charge range may be to mitigate the impact of impetuous and other rules) I've always taken that to be the limit on when I need to do these tests. But I am open to being told I'm wrong, I haven't played too much.

[Ramesesis]

Yes, that seem a logical idea and I am thinking like that aswell. But the rule is a bit unclear.

And what happen if a champion get an item that make said champion Impetous? Does transfer to the whole unit since the champion cannot leave the unit?

[Serathail]

Impetuous units only need to test once there's at least one valid charge targe within their max declarable range (11" for our infantry, 17" for dragon princes, 19" for sun dragons), and only if there's a chance for them to complete the charge (from the faq I think). E.g. if there's an obstacle in the way which makes it imposssible, they don't need to do so.

Characters can no longer charge out of units, so yes, adding an impetuous character to a normal unit makes the whole thing impetuous, and same goes for a champion of course.

[Jedra]

Here's how I've been playing it.

"Max declarable charge range" is move + 6, or +9 if you have swift stride, and you can only declare in your front arc. Therefore any unit in the front arc within that distance is declarable as a charge *even if there's no way you can complete it*.

For that last part, the obvious example from the FAQ
is marching order: it's explicit that you must declare a charge even though you can't do the charge move.

The less obvious one is that i don't think the check fot declarable charge factors in the wheel to align, merely the distance between the units. So a unit at the edge of the front arc, say, 17" from your dragon princes can have a charge declared but with the wheel may well fall short (then again maybe not: with swiftstride you have good odds of going beyond max charge)

I am not 100% sure this is correct

[Serathail]

Therefore any unit in the front arc within that distance is declarable as a charge *even if there's no way you can complete it*.

Impetuous requires the unit to be able to declare a charge. You cannot declare an impossible charge (aka one "the unit cannot possibly complete") per p.119. So an impetuous unit does not need to test to not charge if there's an obstruction in the way (or all targets are beyond max charge range) that makes the charge impossible to achieve.

The only exception would be if the only blocking element was another unit (the FAQ specifies skirmishers, but I assume this applies to all units). If that blocking unit also declares a charge so "there's a chance for it to move out of the way", the impetuouos unit behind also has to test.

For that last part, the obvious example from the FAQ
is marching order: it's explicit that you must declare a charge even though you can't do the charge move.

That is correct, but still requires a charge target against which a charge completed (if not stopped by e.g. Marching Column).


What I'm personally still not certain about is whether spells like e.g. Earthen Ramparts or Miasmic Mirage prevent you from declaring a charge outright (no impetuous test) or just from making a charge move (impetuous test).
Because with both these spells, in marching column but also when rallied a unit "cannot charge". On the one hand marching column allows declaration of charges but no charge move (unless drilled gets you out of it), on the other hand I hardly believe they intended for rallied unit to be able/forced to declare charges, even if not able to make any charge move. So where do the spells land on this spectrum? Either the unit cannot declare charges outright and now earthen ramparts can reign in impetuous units, or only no charge move can be made, in which case a miasmic mirage'd dragon could still declare charges and cause terror checks, even if not moving.

[Prince of Spires]

There's a difference between the wording of Marching Column and both spells. Marching Column says you cannot make a charge move, while both spells specify that you cannot charge.

These are two different things. The Marching Column wording is the exact reason why you can have a Drilled unit in Marching Column declare and then perform a charge. You just can't make the actual move while you're in marching column, but you technically are allowed to declare a charge. Therefore, you suffer from impetuous. If you cannot charge at all, as with the spells, then you're not allowed to declare a charge. Since you can't declare one, you don't suffer from impetuous.

[Serathail]

I could have sworn there was a sentence where the rulebook simply stated units in marching column "cannot charge" as well, but I probably misread then.

[Serathail]

Well I did find it:

p.345 "Units that are in a Marching Column, engaged in combat or fleeing cannot charge."

Same wording as all the other spells etc. in this specific instance, but it's in the Quick Reference sheet, which iirc has some other wrong stuff in it as well, so probably best to disregard that entirely.
But pretty neat, so you can keep caledorian knights somewhat under control with earthen ramparts (and then cancel it at the end of the movement phase so they can still countercharge if need be).

[Prince of Spires]

Well I did find it:

p.345 "Units that are in a Marching Column, engaged in combat or fleeing cannot charge."

Same wording as all the other spells etc. in this specific instance, but it's in the Quick Reference sheet, which iirc has some other wrong stuff in it as well, so probably best to disregard that entirely.
But pretty neat, so you can keep caledorian knights somewhat under control with earthen ramparts (and then cancel it at the end of the movement phase so they can still countercharge if need be).

I didn't look that closely at the quick reference sheets. But I'd trust the wording of the full rules over the summary in this instance. Though it does make a case for having to treat them the same.