1250 Pts Caledorian Ladder League

[Turion Rilyaloce]

I'm in agreement with Prince here. Personally, I fear the Stardragon might be a bit too much for many armies to deal with at 1500 points and may lead to unfun games. But if that is the power level of your league, you can also go that route.

I got a brief on the player I was playing and he was totally casual. He played a softer bretonnian side so I used the weaker of the lists in my opinion with the Archmage on foot.

I ended up winning again because of some mistakes he made allowing for overruns into fresh combats.

But the dice were willing him on, the game probably should have been over turn 2, but I couldn’t land a decisive blow because of bad rolls.

I caught his general in the open with Plague of Rust. Took 2 wounds with the Seaguard and then rolled 8 hits with ruby ring. Rolled 0 wounds.

I charged a unit of 12 foot knights that were screening his Prophetess but poorly aligned, I was counting on an over run, but did 1 wound, won by 2 on Res because of the Battle banner, and only had them fall back in good order.

I marching columned into the flank of his army, got a turn 2 charge off against the Trebuchet and overran into the flank of Questing knights with my Dragon Princes, but got 0 hits out of the Star Lance. It took 3 rounds of combat to keep hammering them on pursuits to finally roll the army up.

One of those games where you play really well but just don’t get the results.

[Prince of Spires]

They happen.

On the other hand, the game might have been more fun for your opponent than if the game had been over T2. Maybe a bit less educational of course, but fun at least.

Congrats on the win, and thanks for sharing the lovely photos of your army in action.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

They happen.

On the other hand, the game might have been more fun for your opponent than if the game had been over T2. Maybe a bit less educational of course, but fun at least.

Congrats on the win, and thanks for sharing the lovely photos of your army in action.

For sure. He kinda saw the writing on the wall after my first movement phase. I guess that is the downside of Praying. I think most times I’m going to strongly consider this aggressive movement that puts a lot of pressure on Bretonnians unless deployment gives me a really good reason not to.

You could definitely tell that he had only played 2 games in the league over 2 months. Whereas this was my 8th game. He almost forgot to cast any spells in his shooting phase turn 1 so I had to remind him. The rust was showing.

I’m thinking after having a lot of fun and success at 1250 with an unorthodox list for my tastes, and then being really confident in 2 of my lists planned for 2K, that’s this 1500 period is going to be the most challenging phase of the league.

[Prince of Spires]

That's very recognizable. The more games you get in, the smoother they go in my experience. And it's often the little things, like remembering your spells, or the stats for your units and what you have to roll. And I can imagine that Brets are actually not that forgiving. You want to have the initiative in the game with them, which is something that comes with experience. Unlike with an army like TK, who care less about that.

Keep us updated about the progress of your ladder league. It's great to read it.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

9-0 including my third win against our hated traitors. I think deployment continues to win a lot of games or make the chances of winning a lot greater.

I was able to draw his witches to deploy opposite my DPs and Dragon BSB. They were left stranded as these two fast elements smashed them and then wrapped back around to close the rest of the army in vise between the Seaguard and Skycutter Archmage.

Whenever I see Heavy Cav deployed behind something I secretly rejoice. It always constrains their threat and maneuverability. I was also able to get a tempest down to delay his main force a full turn. That was what brought their doom with a couple of rear charges and pursuits in other units.

[Axiem]

Taking names! Well done -- double Dragon certainly gives you a strong chance of running over folks! Are you facing anything in your local meta that can really threaten that setup?

Kind regards,

Axiem

[Turion Rilyaloce]

Taking names! Well done -- double Dragon certainly gives you a strong chance of running over folks! Are you facing anything in your local meta that can really threaten that setup?

Kind regards,

Axiem

It’s Sun Dragon Noble BSB (Green) and Skycutter AM (Blue).

My thing is proxying anything that can be a dragon. So Skycutter had the same base size.

I won’t have a star dragon until 2K.

At 1250 I ran a warden of Saphery noble on flying carpet proxied as Toothless, and the Skycutter.

This 1500 level is actually the most uncomfortable for me as Caledorian because I want to be chill, but when other forces bring dragons they don’t have the option to scale down to Sun Dragons and it’s kinda all or nothing for them.

So I’m feeling outgunned on the raw power side right now. It is forcing me to be clever though.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

With April right around the corner it’s time to bulk up to 2K!

My painting targets will be to fill my 20 Seaguard out to 35 and adding 6 WLs for one of my 2K lists

[Turion Rilyaloce]

List 1 - Prince and Archmage

++ Characters [901 pts] ++
Prince [541 pts]
(Hand weapon, Full plate armour, Shield, Longbow, General, Star Dragon, Opal Amulet, Seed of Rebirth, Dragon Slaying Sword, Dragon Helm, Blood of Caledor)

Archmage [360 pts]
(Warbow, Level 4 Wizard, Lothern Skycutter, Seed of Rebirth, Silvery Wand, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Dispel Scroll, Sea Guard, High Magic)

++ Core Units [502 pts] ++
35 Lothern Sea Guard [502 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Shields, Sea Master (champion) [Ring of Fury], Standard bearer [Razor Standard], Musician)

++ Special Units [537 pts] ++
6 Dragon Princes [286 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster [Ring of Fury], Standard bearer [War Banner])

7 Swordmasters of Hoeth [136 pts]
(Swords of Hoeth, Heavy armour, Drilled, Bladelord [Ring of Fury])

6 White Lions of Chrace [115 pts]
(Chracian great blades, Heavy armour, Guardian [Ring of Fury])

++ Rare Units [60 pts] ++
Great Eagle [60 pts]

In this list my Prince is the monster hunter, and the Archmages job is to support him, or the DPs depending on which element the enemy army is built around, blocks or big bads. Fury of Khaine is the key spell to either help spike 6s or improve DPs output.

The WLs I want to experiment with and see if RoF patches them a little. I’ll play them on flanks of the Seaguard and hope the +4 to I for charging plus Hammerhand leaves little to no attacks back. I can also play them in difficult terrain to disorder and disrupt enemies.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

List 2 - Archmage and Noble BSB

++ Characters [996 pts] ++
Archmage [590 pts]
(Hand weapon, Full plate armour, Level 4 Wizard, General, Star Dragon, Star Lance, Opal Amulet, Seed of Rebirth, Silvery Wand, Blood of Caledor, Illusion)

Noble [406 pts]
(Hand weapon, Great weapon, Full plate armour, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer [Battle Banner], Sun Dragon, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet, Dragon Helm, Blood of Caledor)

++ Core Units [502 pts] ++
35 Lothern Sea Guard [502 pts]
(Hand weapons, Thrusting spears, Warbows, Light armour, Shields, Sea Master (champion) [The Loremaster's Cloak], Standard bearer [Razor Standard], Musician)

++ Special Units [439 pts] ++
7 Dragon Princes [291 pts]
(Hand weapons, Lances, Full plate armour, Shields, Barding, Drakemaster [Ring of Fury])

8 Swordmasters of Hoeth [148 pts]
(Swords of Hoeth, Heavy armour, Bladelord [Ruby Ring of Ruin])

++ Rare Units [60 pts] ++
Great Eagle [60 pts]

In this list we go true double dragon. The Archmage tries to control the game with Illusion, and get flank charges off for I10 Doppelgänger. The Noble BSB and DPs can combine to try and break blocks, while the Seaguard fire away from range and are escorted by SMs with RR to protect their flank and clear chaff.

[Prince of Spires]

For a Caledorian army, it almost has to be a dual dragon list of course. Doesn't matter if the other list is better. Dragons FTW!

In all seriousness though I think you should probably pick the list that you think you'll enjoy more. Both can work I think, they just have a very different dynamic. The second really is just Dragons! with a few bits added on, while the first is a bit more flexible. I like the idea of the Ring of Fury on a WL champ. It certainly can mittigate some of the issues of incoming attacks.

One thing to keep in mind regarding Doppelgänger (and the ring of fury for that matter), is that the weapon's initiative doesn't impact when you cast the spell. So the Archmage would cast at I9 if he gets the charge. The reverse is also true of course, the White Lions would cast Hammerhand at I6 in the first round of combat, even if they didn't charge (and I9 if they did). For reference, it's been FAQ'd twice.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

For a Caledorian army, it almost has to be a dual dragon list of course. Doesn't matter if the other list is better. Dragons FTW!

In all seriousness though I think you should probably pick the list that you think you'll enjoy more. Both can work I think, they just have a very different dynamic. The second really is just Dragons! with a few bits added on, while the first is a bit more flexible. I like the idea of the Ring of Fury on a WL champ. It certainly can mittigate some of the issues of incoming attacks.

One thing to keep in mind regarding Doppelgänger (and the ring of fury for that matter), is that the weapon's initiative doesn't impact when you cast the spell. So the Archmage would cast at I9 if he gets the charge. The reverse is also true of course, the White Lions would cast Hammerhand at I6 in the first round of combat, even if they didn't charge (and I9 if they did). For reference, it's been FAQ'd twice.

For list 1 I proxy the Skycutter as a dragon lol. So we are double dragon in both for all intents and purposes.

Yes I saw the discussion about the doppelgänger, but one little rule tidbit I just read was that you can get up +4I for charging flanks and rear, so we can actually get to I10, it just requires some setup.

Our lists actually aren’t locked for this league, so I plan on playing both and seeing which is more fun.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Prince of Spires]

Playing both is of course the best solution.

I do wonder if the Dispel Scroll is worth it in the first list. I guess it's just filling up some left over space.

And I really should give a Sun Dragon BSB a try. He looks fun without being too overpowered. I like the battle banner on him. It's one of the few instances where it's worth it I think. Though maybe that's also just me only rolling 1's and 2's for the CR roll with the battle banner.

Yes I saw the discussion about the doppelgänger, but one little rule tidbit I just read was that you can get up +4I for charging flanks and rear, so we can actually get to I10, it just requires some setup.

Good point. I keep forgetting the extra +1 for flank charges. With my regular opponent being TK, and the high inate HE initiative, it rarely matters anyway

[Turion Rilyaloce]

Playing both is of course the best solution.

I do wonder if the Dispel Scroll is worth it in the first list. I guess it's just filling up some left over space.

And I really should give a Sun Dragon BSB a try. He looks fun without being too overpowered. I like the battle banner on him. It's one of the few instances where it's worth it I think. Though maybe that's also just me only rolling 1's and 2's for the CR roll with the battle banner.

Yes I saw the discussion about the doppelgänger, but one little rule tidbit I just read was that you can get up +4I for charging flanks and rear, so we can actually get to I10, it just requires some setup.

Good point. I keep forgetting the extra +1 for flank charges. With my regular opponent being TK, and the high inate HE initiative, it rarely matters anyway

I highly recommend the Sun Dragon BSB. Can hold his own or combo charge and people are surprised by the ammount of res.

The dispel scroll is there to try and give me a chance against that one important debuff that gets thrown at my Prince every game it seems like.

I was also considering a power scroll to try and force through an important WBW or FoK.

What would you add if you dropped it? I also have that spare 4 points only a longbow could fill on the Prince.

[Prince of Spires]

I'm not sure what I'd add. Maybe squeezing in 2 SM or making room for an extra DP (with a bit of reshuffling) could be an option, but that doesn't make that much difference I think. And you're correct that it does give you more certainty with that one spell you really need to stop. Which is perhaps even more important in a dragon list, where you have a big focal point than in non-dragon lists.

Maybe if you also drop the RoF on the SM champ. Then you have something like 45 pts to play with, which you could turn into a skycutter if you swap out the eagle. It would leave you without redirectors though, which doesn't feel right either.

All in all, I would probably keep the list as is.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

I'm not sure what I'd add. Maybe squeezing in 2 SM or making room for an extra DP (with a bit of reshuffling) could be an option, but that doesn't make that much difference I think. And you're correct that it does give you more certainty with that one spell you really need to stop. Which is perhaps even more important in a dragon list, where you have a big focal point than in non-dragon lists.

Maybe if you also drop the RoF on the SM champ. Then you have something like 45 pts to play with, which you could turn into a skycutter if you swap out the eagle. It would leave you without redirectors though, which doesn't feel right either.

All in all, I would probably keep the list as is.

Thanks for the advice!

[Turion Rilyaloce]

First 2K game today, moved to 10-0. Faced Dark Elves and they were very heavily invest in a block of witches. Double Death hag. But only a level 2.

I dominated the magic phase, and he didn’t have any range, so I sat back and rained arrows down on them until it was time to charge the Abomination (black dragon). In the second round of combat I monster slayer it and we called game.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

Moved to 11-0 against Empire. I was a little worried when I saw my opponents list. A steam tank, 2 cannons, a hell blaster and Arch lector on war alter. He had me seriously outnumbered on units as well.

But I think I played my finest game to date. I deployed really well to setup my first turn moves, was able to get within the steam tanks min impact range, while using a hill to block cannon fire. I pushed it back and then reformed to charge hand gunners in the flank. When they fled I redirected into Demigryphs to rob the counter charge and rolled them up into the proximity of the Arch Lector.

On the other flank I stayed out of the Arch Lectors bubble to get WBW off and then reserve moved into position to charge the war machine batteries turn 2. When ever I see my opponents cluster the artillery I smile inside as it’s a magnet. This move also allowed me to screen the DPs from the Hellblaster.

Turn 2 the game basically ended and became a rout as I disposed of the Demigryphs, a cannon which overran into an engineer and pushed the arch lector back with the DPs.

Next turn I got dual charges off on the arch lector with Dragon and Skycutter, and cleared the rest of the artillery with the DPs.

He had only the Steamtank left on my left flank which I got insanely hot and pushed through 5 wounds on stand and shoot to take it down.

The last turns comprised of his knights and hand gunners leap frogging each other to find a board edge to escape the Caledorian forces.

[Prince of Spires]

That's an epic looking battle. Congrats on the win! Dealing with Empire artillery and friends can be tough, especially with a dragon list. So amazing to manage an 11-0. Which list did you bring in the end?

As a side note, I like how 4 of your LSG are just casually looking the other way, not even bothering to pay attention to the battle raging around them...

[Turion Rilyaloce]

That's an epic looking battle. Congrats on the win! Dealing with Empire artillery and friends can be tough, especially with a dragon list. So amazing to manage an 11-0. Which list did you bring in the end?

As a side note, I like how 4 of your LSG are just casually looking the other way, not even bothering to pay attention to the battle raging around them...

I used the Prince on Star Dragon and Arch Mage on Skycutter.

The Seaguard have some issues with the clearance for the spears, so I just turn them around to stop the clashing. Maybe it’s the visual representation of martial prowess, making sure no one is sneaking up on the rear haha. Well trained marines.

I have a huge target on my back as I’m the last undefeated player in the league, and people are clamouring to get games. I’m also using the meta game haha, I am noticing some hesitancy from players when I get aggressive, and kinda use the record as reputation.

I wonder what army I’m going to lose to first? Maybe VCs as the screams are just so tough to deal with.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

12-0. Beat the first place player. He runs Beastmen monster mash. 2 Giant Spawn, a Ghorgon, and Doombull.

He had been goading me throughout the league and we finally played after he had beat 2 other High Elf generals.

My Prince was offended and opened the first 2 turns deleting a Giant Spawn, and the Ghorgon.

What really won the game though was DPs charging a razorgor, deleting it, over running into his Shaman, getting charged in his turn by a Tuskgor and Razorgor and breaking them all. His Shaman fled so I didn’t have to face Viletide all game.

[Prince of Spires]

That's one epic looking battlefield, with all those monsters running around. Congrats on the win. Was it the double dragon list, or was one of them pretending to be a Skycutter again?

[Turion Rilyaloce]

That's one epic looking battlefield, with all those monsters running around. Congrats on the win. Was it the double dragon list, or was one of them pretending to be a Skycutter again?

Pretending to be a Skycutter. The blue dragon is an Archmage on Skycutter.

The club I belong to pools their time and resources the build cool terrain features and buy gaming resources. It’s really awesome to be able to show up and set up tables like this

[Griffon Prince]

Congrats on all your wins!

I need to ask, was the Beastmen game 2K? A gorgon and 2 gigantic spawn amount to more than 500 points in rare units unless there's something I'm missing?

[Turion Rilyaloce]

Congrats on all your wins!

I need to ask, was the Beastmen game 2K? A gorgon and 2 gigantic spawn amount to more than 500 points in rare units unless there's something I'm missing?

It was 2K. He runs a Doombull as his general which I think lets him shift some of that rare to special.

Thank you!

[Prince of Spires]

I love all the cool terrain features you've got scattered throughout your games. It really does make for awesome battlefields. I really should have a look around for a group here that plays Warhammer, but I've had little luck in the past. It's mostly 40k (or Magic the Gathering) I keep finding...

[Turion Rilyaloce]

I love all the cool terrain features you've got scattered throughout your games. It really does make for awesome battlefields. I really should have a look around for a group here that plays Warhammer, but I've had little luck in the past. It's mostly 40k (or Magic the Gathering) I keep finding...

Where do you game? The immersion is really great when you have access to the pool of resources and collaboration.

It’s been one of the most positive experiences I have had with gaming, finding the like minded people, source of opponents, and new friends made.

[Prince of Spires]

I love all the cool terrain features you've got scattered throughout your games. It really does make for awesome battlefields. I really should have a look around for a group here that plays Warhammer, but I've had little luck in the past. It's mostly 40k (or Magic the Gathering) I keep finding...

Where do you game? The immersion is really great when you have access to the pool of resources and collaboration.

It’s been one of the most positive experiences I have had with gaming, finding the like minded people, source of opponents, and new friends made.

In the Netherlands, the Hague to be precise. As mentioned, I've met with a couple of gaming groups in the past, but they mainly focussed on either 40k or Magic. There's also a local games store which runs game nights (which has some fabulous game tables by the way), but again, few fantasy players. Same with the local GW store actually. (Yes, I'm lucky and have both nearby). They were all great people though, and very welcoming.

It must also be said, that in the past couple of years, life somehow got in the way. First I had kids, which makes being away for an evening a logistical challenge, then there were the times that must not be named, then I seem to remember something around 2020 which kind of got in the way of all social stuff. It's probably time to pick it up again.

[Turion Rilyaloce]

I love all the cool terrain features you've got scattered throughout your games. It really does make for awesome battlefields. I really should have a look around for a group here that plays Warhammer, but I've had little luck in the past. It's mostly 40k (or Magic the Gathering) I keep finding...

Where do you game? The immersion is really great when you have access to the pool of resources and collaboration.

It’s been one of the most positive experiences I have had with gaming, finding the like minded people, source of opponents, and new friends made.

In the Netherlands, the Hague to be precise. As mentioned, I've met with a couple of gaming groups in the past, but they mainly focussed on either 40k or Magic. There's also a local games store which runs game nights (which has some fabulous game tables by the way), but again, few fantasy players. Same with the local GW store actually. (Yes, I'm lucky and have both nearby). They were all great people though, and very welcoming.

It must also be said, that in the past couple of years, life somehow got in the way. First I had kids, which makes being away for an evening a logistical challenge, then there were the times that must not be named, then I seem to remember something around 2020 which kind of got in the way of all social stuff. It's probably time to pick it up again.

The city of justice! I understand I also have 2 young kids and the responsibility comes first. I hope they eventually are interested in gaming so we can share the time.

I hope you find a group eventually, would love to see some battle reports and tales of the matches.

[Prince of Spires]

The city of justice! I understand I also have 2 young kids and the responsibility comes first. I hope they eventually are interested in gaming so we can share the time.

I hope you find a group eventually, would love to see some battle reports and tales of the matches.

I've got an original box of Heroquest lying around somewhere. They're just about getting to the age where they could start playing that. Once I find some time during a rainy holiday I'll get them playing That's my plan at least. And from there it's not that far to a game of Warhammer. And I've got plenty of High Elves at least to field 3 armies if needed. So I can give them a HE civil war without issue. Just don't tell my wife that The youngest at least did seem interested in the models

I do have a friend who also plays WH, and we get the occasional game in. So that's something at least. I've got a few battle reports floating around on the site.