Since the AJ I've been trying to come up with options for maxed or wizards that will finally reclaim High Elf magic supremacy. I've got two options that i think might beOK but very different. I can't decide which is more promising (or of they'll both flop). Tweaks and thoughts welcome!
Basic logic behind both is to prioritise buffs and hexes to make both shooting and combat phases more effective.
Chracian list is nice because mobility is built in to the units, and any unit if boosted by the relevant spells is going to hit hard. Abundance of S4 shots boosted appropriately should threaten targets up to T6. Very resilient to shooting, but there is absolutely no static combat res in the whole list - it's kill or be killed.
Grand Army is a bit more of a classic army. I'm thinking of hiding the SM behind the shooters in marching order, taking a charge with either and being set up for support. I like the illusion mage as a damage dealer in this one (and may well swap that build into the other) as the Spectral Doppelganger will can use the sword of hoeth or dragonslaying as the target calls for - having both killing blow and monsterslayer is nice, but getting them to the right target may be tricky.
2 maxed out wizards lists
2 maxed out wizards lists
Last edited by Jedra on Wed Apr 09, 2025 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 2 maxed out wizards lists
High Elf Realms - Chracian Warhost - Chracian Wizards - [1995 pts]
# ++ Main Force ++ [1995 pts]
## Characters [955 pts]
Archmage [270 pts]: Hand Weapon, Chracian Hunter, Wizard Level 4, Illusion, Chracian Great Blade, Power Scroll, Silvery Wand, 2x Opal Amulet
Archmage [270 pts]: Hand Weapon, Wizard Level 4, High Magic, Power Scroll, The Trickster's Pendant, The Loremaster's Cloak
Storm Weavers [210 pts]:
• 1x Storm Weaver [210 pts]: Hand Weapon, General, Wizard Level 3, Elementalism, Lore Familiar, Sacred Incense
Storm Weavers [205 pts]:
• 1x Storm Weaver [205 pts]: Hand Weapon, Wizard Level 3, Dark Magic, Feedback Scroll
## Core [703 pts]
Chracian Woodsmen [105 pts]:
• 7x Chracian Woodsman [15 pts]: Hand Weapon, Chracian Great Blade, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Lion Cloak
Chracian Woodsmen [105 pts]:
• 7x Chracian Woodsman [15 pts]: Hand Weapon, Chracian Great Blade, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Lion Cloak
Chracian Woodsmen [194 pts]:
• 12x Chracian Woodsman [15 pts]: Hand Weapon, Chracian Great Blade, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Lion Cloak
• 1x Standard Bearer [7 pts]
• 1x Musician [7 pts]
Chracian Woodsmen [194 pts]:
• 12x Chracian Woodsman [15 pts]: Hand Weapon, Chracian Great Blade, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Lion Cloak
• 1x Standard Bearer [7 pts]
• 1x Musician [7 pts]
Chracian Woodsmen [105 pts]:
• 7x Chracian Woodsman [15 pts]: Hand Weapon, Chracian Great Blade, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Lion Cloak
## Rare [337 pts]
Sisters of Avelorn [337 pts]:
• 20x Sister of Avelorn [15 pts]: Bow of Avelorn, Hand Weapon, Light Armour
• 1x High Sister [37 pts]: Ruby Ring of Ruin
# ++ Main Force ++ [1995 pts]
## Characters [955 pts]
Archmage [270 pts]: Hand Weapon, Chracian Hunter, Wizard Level 4, Illusion, Chracian Great Blade, Power Scroll, Silvery Wand, 2x Opal Amulet
Archmage [270 pts]: Hand Weapon, Wizard Level 4, High Magic, Power Scroll, The Trickster's Pendant, The Loremaster's Cloak
Storm Weavers [210 pts]:
• 1x Storm Weaver [210 pts]: Hand Weapon, General, Wizard Level 3, Elementalism, Lore Familiar, Sacred Incense
Storm Weavers [205 pts]:
• 1x Storm Weaver [205 pts]: Hand Weapon, Wizard Level 3, Dark Magic, Feedback Scroll
## Core [703 pts]
Chracian Woodsmen [105 pts]:
• 7x Chracian Woodsman [15 pts]: Hand Weapon, Chracian Great Blade, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Lion Cloak
Chracian Woodsmen [105 pts]:
• 7x Chracian Woodsman [15 pts]: Hand Weapon, Chracian Great Blade, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Lion Cloak
Chracian Woodsmen [194 pts]:
• 12x Chracian Woodsman [15 pts]: Hand Weapon, Chracian Great Blade, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Lion Cloak
• 1x Standard Bearer [7 pts]
• 1x Musician [7 pts]
Chracian Woodsmen [194 pts]:
• 12x Chracian Woodsman [15 pts]: Hand Weapon, Chracian Great Blade, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Lion Cloak
• 1x Standard Bearer [7 pts]
• 1x Musician [7 pts]
Chracian Woodsmen [105 pts]:
• 7x Chracian Woodsman [15 pts]: Hand Weapon, Chracian Great Blade, Warbow, Heavy Armour, Lion Cloak
## Rare [337 pts]
Sisters of Avelorn [337 pts]:
• 20x Sister of Avelorn [15 pts]: Bow of Avelorn, Hand Weapon, Light Armour
• 1x High Sister [37 pts]: Ruby Ring of Ruin
Re: 2 maxed out wizards lists
High Elf Realms - Storm of Saphery - [1999 pts]
# ++ Main Force ++ [1999 pts]
## Characters [915 pts]
Archmage [245 pts]: Hand Weapon, Sea Guard, Wizard Level 4, High Magic, Warbow, The Trickster's Pendant, Opal Amulet
Archmage [295 pts]: Hand Weapon, Warden of Saphery, Wizard Level 4, Illusion, Sword of Hoeth, Dragon Slaying Sword, Lore Familiar, Opal Amulet
Storm Weavers [200 pts]:
• 1x Storm Weaver [200 pts]: Hand Weapon, General, Wizard Level 3, Elementalism, Sigil of Asuryan, Silvery Wand
Storm Weavers [175 pts]:
• 1x Storm Weaver [175 pts]: Hand Weapon, Wizard Level 3, Dark Magic, Annulian Crystal
## Core [504 pts]
Elven Archers [55 pts]:
• 5x Elven Archer [11 pts]: Hand Weapon, Longbow, Light Armour
Lothern Sea Guard [329 pts]: Magic Standard, Veteran (Replaces Valour of Ages)
• 19x Lothern Sea Guard [12 pts]: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Thrusting Spear, Warbow, Shield
• 1x Sea Master [32 pts]: The Loremaster's Cloak
• 1x Standard Bearer [45 pts]: Razor Standard
• 1x Musician [5 pts]
Silver Helms [120 pts]:
• 5x Silver Helm [24 pts]: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Lance, Shield, Barded Elven Steed (Barding, Hand Weapon)
## Special [318 pts]
Swordmasters of Hoeth [318 pts]:
• 16x Swordmaster [15 pts]: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Sword of Hoeth, Drilled
• 1x Bladelord [41 pts]: Sacred Incense
• 1x Standard Bearer [31 pts]: War Banner
• 1x Musician [6 pts]
## Rare [262 pts]
Sisters of Avelorn [262 pts]:
• 15x Sister of Avelorn [15 pts]: Bow of Avelorn, Hand Weapon, Light Armour
• 1x High Sister [37 pts]: Ruby Ring of Ruin
# ++ Main Force ++ [1999 pts]
## Characters [915 pts]
Archmage [245 pts]: Hand Weapon, Sea Guard, Wizard Level 4, High Magic, Warbow, The Trickster's Pendant, Opal Amulet
Archmage [295 pts]: Hand Weapon, Warden of Saphery, Wizard Level 4, Illusion, Sword of Hoeth, Dragon Slaying Sword, Lore Familiar, Opal Amulet
Storm Weavers [200 pts]:
• 1x Storm Weaver [200 pts]: Hand Weapon, General, Wizard Level 3, Elementalism, Sigil of Asuryan, Silvery Wand
Storm Weavers [175 pts]:
• 1x Storm Weaver [175 pts]: Hand Weapon, Wizard Level 3, Dark Magic, Annulian Crystal
## Core [504 pts]
Elven Archers [55 pts]:
• 5x Elven Archer [11 pts]: Hand Weapon, Longbow, Light Armour
Lothern Sea Guard [329 pts]: Magic Standard, Veteran (Replaces Valour of Ages)
• 19x Lothern Sea Guard [12 pts]: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Thrusting Spear, Warbow, Shield
• 1x Sea Master [32 pts]: The Loremaster's Cloak
• 1x Standard Bearer [45 pts]: Razor Standard
• 1x Musician [5 pts]
Silver Helms [120 pts]:
• 5x Silver Helm [24 pts]: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Lance, Shield, Barded Elven Steed (Barding, Hand Weapon)
## Special [318 pts]
Swordmasters of Hoeth [318 pts]:
• 16x Swordmaster [15 pts]: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Sword of Hoeth, Drilled
• 1x Bladelord [41 pts]: Sacred Incense
• 1x Standard Bearer [31 pts]: War Banner
• 1x Musician [6 pts]
## Rare [262 pts]
Sisters of Avelorn [262 pts]:
• 15x Sister of Avelorn [15 pts]: Bow of Avelorn, Hand Weapon, Light Armour
• 1x High Sister [37 pts]: Ruby Ring of Ruin
Re: 2 maxed out wizards lists
Took the Storm off Saphery list to a game against Ogre Kingdoms. Lots of T4 units ogres and mournfang with low I, but far from a super hard list. General on stonehorn with a giant mace was the big scary thing. He only had one level 4 mage.
The game went very well: I lost 1 mage and the silverhelms, but wiped out the enemy force and all remaining units over 50% starting strength. Won't do a full BR but some highlights and thoughts:
Spell Priority
On my first turn i rolled a miscast then rolled high shutting down my magic completely after *only* getting 3 spells off. That made me much more cautious in future rounds about thinking carefully which spells were important to start with. It's easy to just keep casting, but with so many spells the odds of getting a miscast are actually quite high (i had 3 over the game). If earthing rod or staff pf solidity were common, I'd be using taking them.
Dispel Capability
85 pts in dispel items is a lot and it felt slightly too much in this one because of only one spellcaster. That being said, I was able to shut down all but 1 spells being cast at important moments. The Trickster's Pendant against a single mage is only slightly better than a dispel scroll - in two successive turns he rolled high for his first spell, and at most had 3 spells to cast. I eventually used it when he just barely cast his second spell (and I only just dispelled it) so it stopped 1 extra spell. Still, if someone ELSE loaded up with casters it will come into its own. I do love the Sigil - it's expensive, but it was great to just say "nope I do not want you to have that toy" when I felt like it.
Best Mage
Absolutely the MVP of the game was the Illusion mage. Lore Familiar war the right choice: I took glittering robe, Spectral Doppelganger, Miasmic Mirage and Column of Crystal. CoC was the only one that didn't see great use: I got one off only and it stayed up for most of the game, but for the most part they were either marching or in combat during the shooting phase and so couldn't cast it. I may use Confounding Convocation in future (although I haven't had a lot of luck with that spell as it requires too many rolls to go your way to actually have an effect).
I put him with the blademasters, and they used drilled to marching order charge right in to the face of the enemy turn 1 - with 1 inch charge they still went first and no impact hits and basically wiped out the unit so being in marching order didn't matter. After that they were able to move to combat order and they consistently won every combat so if my turn was next i would try to restrain and then be in a good position to cast short range illlusion spells (failed once - Veteran would be nice to have on them). Miasmic Mirage is such an awesome spell for control and blocked several charges. Failed the restraint test once which sucked, but even stuck in combat you have 2 good spells. Glittering Robe with the high WS blademasters proved very nice.
Having killing blow on Spectral Doppelganger against multi wound ogres was just, frankly, insane - like a hot knife through butter. I never got him up against the general so monster slayer didn't come into effect.
A++ caster and unit choice, will defintely take this again.
Spell Rolls
I rolled pretty well with the spells - having so many means you're likely to get *something* you need but not *everything*- e.g. I had battle lust but not Fury of Khaine. The only Lore of Saphery spell I took was "Vaul's Unmaking" because of the big scary mace on the stonehorn - it was the only thing that could harm my unit if I got Walk Between World's up. High Mage was also a good candidate for this as he's the one that will be casting WBW. In the end I used it to kill a Talisman of Protection which had been annoyingly high-rolling all game.
The level 3 dark mage without wand had the worst results - battle lust was the only spell I really wanted, although the sig spell is a good magic missile so that was OK. The annulian crystal was kind of useless as I never managed to cast the spell that I wanted to re-roll (he also died relatively early from a charge I didn't think would land).
Silver Helms + Ring
The silver helms may have died but they punched up pretty will with the Ring of Fury and the only charge I had supported by Battle Lust - it's a very very hard hitting initial charge for a relatively cheap unit if you can pull it off. They took out a unit of Ironguts (that was about the same points as them) with only 1 loss , then half of a Mournfang Cavalry unit that was nearly double their points value (they got wiped out by the returning hits though). If they'd had Battlelust for the Mournfangs as well, who knows. It's a pretty good, long range hammer you can send at anyone - especially if you are out of dispel range for the ring. Not a bad use of core. Likely won't survive the opponents turn though unless it's an isolated target.
Changes
I actually think I am going to drop a wizard. With totally maxed out characters, I felt the lack of support units and possible targets for spell buffs. I also miss having flying support from my recent escapades with Seaguard. Having both Stormweavers in the same unit was also just such a tempting target for combat. I feel like 12 spells should still be enough, and can still have the same dispel capability with just 3 wizards.
The game went very well: I lost 1 mage and the silverhelms, but wiped out the enemy force and all remaining units over 50% starting strength. Won't do a full BR but some highlights and thoughts:
Spell Priority
On my first turn i rolled a miscast then rolled high shutting down my magic completely after *only* getting 3 spells off. That made me much more cautious in future rounds about thinking carefully which spells were important to start with. It's easy to just keep casting, but with so many spells the odds of getting a miscast are actually quite high (i had 3 over the game). If earthing rod or staff pf solidity were common, I'd be using taking them.
Dispel Capability
85 pts in dispel items is a lot and it felt slightly too much in this one because of only one spellcaster. That being said, I was able to shut down all but 1 spells being cast at important moments. The Trickster's Pendant against a single mage is only slightly better than a dispel scroll - in two successive turns he rolled high for his first spell, and at most had 3 spells to cast. I eventually used it when he just barely cast his second spell (and I only just dispelled it) so it stopped 1 extra spell. Still, if someone ELSE loaded up with casters it will come into its own. I do love the Sigil - it's expensive, but it was great to just say "nope I do not want you to have that toy" when I felt like it.
Best Mage
Absolutely the MVP of the game was the Illusion mage. Lore Familiar war the right choice: I took glittering robe, Spectral Doppelganger, Miasmic Mirage and Column of Crystal. CoC was the only one that didn't see great use: I got one off only and it stayed up for most of the game, but for the most part they were either marching or in combat during the shooting phase and so couldn't cast it. I may use Confounding Convocation in future (although I haven't had a lot of luck with that spell as it requires too many rolls to go your way to actually have an effect).
I put him with the blademasters, and they used drilled to marching order charge right in to the face of the enemy turn 1 - with 1 inch charge they still went first and no impact hits and basically wiped out the unit so being in marching order didn't matter. After that they were able to move to combat order and they consistently won every combat so if my turn was next i would try to restrain and then be in a good position to cast short range illlusion spells (failed once - Veteran would be nice to have on them). Miasmic Mirage is such an awesome spell for control and blocked several charges. Failed the restraint test once which sucked, but even stuck in combat you have 2 good spells. Glittering Robe with the high WS blademasters proved very nice.
Having killing blow on Spectral Doppelganger against multi wound ogres was just, frankly, insane - like a hot knife through butter. I never got him up against the general so monster slayer didn't come into effect.
A++ caster and unit choice, will defintely take this again.
Spell Rolls
I rolled pretty well with the spells - having so many means you're likely to get *something* you need but not *everything*- e.g. I had battle lust but not Fury of Khaine. The only Lore of Saphery spell I took was "Vaul's Unmaking" because of the big scary mace on the stonehorn - it was the only thing that could harm my unit if I got Walk Between World's up. High Mage was also a good candidate for this as he's the one that will be casting WBW. In the end I used it to kill a Talisman of Protection which had been annoyingly high-rolling all game.
The level 3 dark mage without wand had the worst results - battle lust was the only spell I really wanted, although the sig spell is a good magic missile so that was OK. The annulian crystal was kind of useless as I never managed to cast the spell that I wanted to re-roll (he also died relatively early from a charge I didn't think would land).
Silver Helms + Ring
The silver helms may have died but they punched up pretty will with the Ring of Fury and the only charge I had supported by Battle Lust - it's a very very hard hitting initial charge for a relatively cheap unit if you can pull it off. They took out a unit of Ironguts (that was about the same points as them) with only 1 loss , then half of a Mournfang Cavalry unit that was nearly double their points value (they got wiped out by the returning hits though). If they'd had Battlelust for the Mournfangs as well, who knows. It's a pretty good, long range hammer you can send at anyone - especially if you are out of dispel range for the ring. Not a bad use of core. Likely won't survive the opponents turn though unless it's an isolated target.
Changes
I actually think I am going to drop a wizard. With totally maxed out characters, I felt the lack of support units and possible targets for spell buffs. I also miss having flying support from my recent escapades with Seaguard. Having both Stormweavers in the same unit was also just such a tempting target for combat. I feel like 12 spells should still be enough, and can still have the same dispel capability with just 3 wizards.
Re: 2 maxed out wizards lists
Nice victory, and a good read. I came to the same conclusions: 3 Wizards I think is the sweet spot for a Coven-style list, and I think it's a debate on if you want to have a Level 3 Stormweaver with Dark Magic, or a Level 2 with Battle Magic as the third caster. Pros and cons to each.Jedra wrote: ↑Fri Apr 18, 2025 10:05 am
The game went very well: I lost 1 mage and the silverhelms, but wiped out the enemy force and all remaining units over 50% starting strength. Won't do a full BR but some highlights and thoughts:...
Changes
I actually think I am going to drop a wizard. With totally maxed out characters, I felt the lack of support units and possible targets for spell buffs. I also miss having flying support from my recent escapades with Seaguard. Having both Stormweavers in the same unit was also just such a tempting target for combat. I feel like 12 spells should still be enough, and can still have the same dispel capability with just 3 wizards.
I think Annulian Crystal is good in this kind of list, but as you found out it really needs to be on one of the level fours.
This is what I'm currently running for this type of list, testing:
a.) Dragon Princes or Swordmasters -- no decision yet on which I prefer, but at the moment I think I'm leaning towards the Swordmasters (ask me tomorrow, might have changed my mind);
b.) 10x Sisters in Rare, or the third caster -- no decision yet on which I prefer either, but at the moment I'm leaning towards the Sisters; when I take the third caster, I swap Annulian Crystal onto the Elemental mage, and give Lore Familiar to the Dark / Battle Mage;
Like you, I found I really wanted more supporting elements, not just four casters. I think two level 4s is a solid foundation, but it gets tricky if you start playing with Handmaiden / Stormweaver split.270 - Archmage, Pure of Heart, Wizard Level 4, High Magic, Sigil of Asuryan, Silvery Wand, Ruby Ring of Ruin
240 - Archmage, Sea Guard, Wizard Level 4, Elementalism, Warbow, Lore Familiar, The Loremaster's Cloak
140 - Handmaiden of the Everqueen, Horn of Isha, General, Light Armour, Bow of the Seafarer
151 - 5 Silver Helms, Shield, High Helm, Ring of Fury
423 - 26 Sisters of Avelorn, High Sister, Stubborn
402 - 10 Dragon Princes, Drakemaster, Ring of Fury
157 - 10 Sisters of Avelorn, High Sister
157 - 10 Sisters of Avelorn, High Sister
60 - Great Eagle
TOTAL: 2000
I am interested in also trying an Illusion caster, similar to yours, but for me I think I'd play that version fully mounted, something like this:
Playing around with Wand of Jet, Sigil of Asuryan, and Annulian Crystal as the third magic item.278 - Archmage, Pure of Heart, Barded Elven Steed, Wizard Level 4, High Magic, Wand of Jet, Ruby Ring of Ruin
313 - Archmage, Blood of Caledor, Barded Elven Steed, Wizard Level 4, Illusion, Full Plate Armour, Star Lance, Lore Familiar, Opal Amulet
255 - Storm Weavers, General, Unicorn, Wizard Level 3, Dark Magic, Silvery Wand, Ring of Fury, Sacred Incense
404 - 14 Silver Helms, Shield, High Helm, The Loremaster's Cloak, Standard Bearer, Lion Standard, Musician
151 - 5 Silver Helms, Shield, High Helm, Ring of Fury
254 - 6 Dragon Princes, Drakemaster, Ring of Fury
115 - Lothern Skycutters, Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower
115 - Lothern Skycutters, Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower
115 - Lothern Skycutters, Eagle-Eye Bolt Thrower
TOTAL: 2000
I do really like the Illusion + Sacred Incense combo as a Meta choice to turn off Poison Deathstars. I need more reps with both of these lists.
Kind regards,
Axiem
Re: 2 maxed out wizards lists
I toyed with using exactly the same mounted illusion archmage as well: i think it would be pretty solid. The dual killing blow/monster slayer combo with SD is very nice though - almost anything not on a chariot is going to be very afraid of that unit.
I mostly opted for the list choice i used as its the one i can field without any egregious proxies or grey ghosts (subbed 6ed shadow warriors in for sisters but otherwise all correct and painted )
The full mounted/flying list definitely looks interesting!
I would say though: i think bringing more dispel items is a good idea. More wizards doesn't boost your magic defence unless you also bring more items. Apart from the first turn,, my opponent only successfully cast 2 spells in the whole game - 80 pts well innvested i think
I mostly opted for the list choice i used as its the one i can field without any egregious proxies or grey ghosts (subbed 6ed shadow warriors in for sisters but otherwise all correct and painted )
The full mounted/flying list definitely looks interesting!
I would say though: i think bringing more dispel items is a good idea. More wizards doesn't boost your magic defence unless you also bring more items. Apart from the first turn,, my opponent only successfully cast 2 spells in the whole game - 80 pts well innvested i think