BR #2 - List Analysis

[Houdini]

Hi All,

Just wanted to pop up a quick OG battle rep for my 3rd game of ToW. I have a Mac now so I didn’t really want to set up BC, therefore I have just jazzed up the photos of the game a little instead. It is just a friendly learning game, so the game was pretty slow while re-reading rules. My opponent and I also got plenty of rules wrong some of which we figured out during the game and some we didn’t realise until afterwards.

Probably not Ideal for me to use the Star Dragon straight up, however my list is based primarily on what I have available and painted. The goal is to test a lot more of what is available in the book but this will take me a little time as I slowly paint.

My List

++ Characters [751 pts] ++

Prince [491 pts]
- Full Plate Armor
- Star Dragon
- Dragon Helm
- Seed of Rebirth
- Giant Blade
- Charmed Shield
- Pure of Heart

Archmage [260 pts]
- Upgrade to Level 4
- Armour of Caledor
- Annulian Crystal
- Warden of Saphery

++ Core Units [501 pts] ++

18 Lothern Sea Guard [291 pts]
- Shields
- Veteran
- Sea Master (champion)
- Standard Bearer
- Razor Standard
- Musician

5 Ellyrian Reavers [105 pts]
- Cavalry Spears
- Shortbows
- Scouts
- Skirmishes

5 Ellyrian Reavers [105 pts]
- Cavalry Spears
- Shortbows
- Skirmishes

++ Special Units [384 pts] ++

7 Swordmasters [148 pts]
- Drilled
- Bladelord
- Standard bearer
- Lion Standard
- Musician

5 Dragon Princes [236 pts]
- Drakemaster
- Standard bearer
- Rampaging Banner
- Musician

++ Rare Units [362 pts] ++

1 Frostheart Phoenix [205 pts]

8 Sisters of Avelorn [157 pts]
- High Sister
- Ruby Ring of Ruin


Opponent’s List

++ Characters [992 pts] ++

Supreme Sorceress [560 pts]
- Level 4 Wizard
- Black Dragon
- Pendant Of Khaeleth
- Lore Familiar
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Elementalism

Khainite Assassin [95 pts]
- Hand weapon and throwing weapons
- Manbane

Khainite Assassin [95 pts]
- Hand weapon and throwing weapons
- Manbane

Khainite Assassin [95 pts]
- Hand weapon and throwing weapons
- Manbane

Dark Elf Master [147 pts]
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Sea Dragon Cloak
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Razor Standard

++ Core Units [485 pts] ++

10 Repeater Crossbowmen [160 pts]
- Light armour
- Shields
- Lordling (champion)
- Standard bearer
- The Blazing Banner
- Musician

10 Repeater Crossbowmen [135 pts]
- Light armour
- Shields
- Lordling (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

5 Dark Riders [95 pts]
- cavalry spears
- and repeater crossbows
- Light armour
- Shields

5 Dark Riders [95 pts]
- cavalry spears
- and repeater crossbows
- Light armour
- Shields

++ Special Units [520 pts] ++

18 Dark Elf Shades [355 pts]
- repeater crossbows
- and additional hand weapons
- Light armour
- Veteran
- Bloodshade (champion)
- The Guiding Eye

5 Harpies [55 pts]

5 Harpies [55 pts]

5 Harpies [55 pts]

Spells

HE Archmage HighLore - Sig. Drain Magic 2. Fiery Convocation 5. Fury of Khaine 6. Shield of Saphery

DE Sorceress Elementalism - 2. Plague of Rust 4. Earthen Ramparts 5. Wind Blast 6. Travel Mystical Pathway

Deployment





My opponent had a lot of scouts available, but chose to mostly drop normally to out drop me (plus to get the BSB into the Shades). He started with the three harpies to force my positioning first. I utilised the central hill to hide behind, but otherwise took up a fair bit of board coverage. I had the Sisters further out of range incase I lost the first turn and then used the Scouting Reavers to Screen the DPs.

DE Turn One



The first mistake with both made, was to ensure we had units in our casters front Arc - therefore we both made slight adjustments to our deployment to allow for this

Strategy Phase - the Sorceress successfully casts Earthen Ramparts on the Shades.

Movement Phase - Travel Mystical is then cast on the Shades, and everything else advances forward to be within shooting range.

Shooting Phase - I manage to dispel the Ruby Ring cast on the SMs. The Shade unit uses the Guiding Eye and I luckily only lose 5 SGs. I lose 4 Reavers on the right hand flank and luckily the lone rangers passes the panic.


HE Turn One



Strategy Phase - I Cast the Shield of Saphery on the Dragon. Realising the limitation of both Shield and fury of Khaine (only lasting until the end of my turn much to my surprise) I decided to utilise the Annulian Crystal and rolled up 3. Tempest.

Movement Phase - I knew I needed to immediately apply pressure to the large amount of shooting that was coming at me, however I never really intended to split the bill. The right flank readjusts with the DPs using drilled to redress then the 90 degree turn (seems weird). I move the SMs so the Archmage can just get LoS on the Shades.

Shooting Phase - Ruby Ring targeting Dark Riders fails to cast, then both Tempest and Convocation are dispelled successfully. Shooting only sees two Dark Riders downed by the Sisters.


DE Turn Two





Strategy Phase - I manage to dispel Earthen Ramparts.

Movement Phase - The Sorceress successfully casts Mystical Pathway again on the Shades. Following the Shades most of the Army starts to swing towards my left flank. The Harpies are used as a double block on my Star Dragon.

Shooting Phase - Fortunately I manage to dispel Ruby Ring which was targeting the Frost Phoenix. The First Phoenix then takes 4 wounds from shooting. I lose 2 SMs to some shooting and the Dragon manages to shrug off some shooting from the far Dark Riders.

HE Turn Two





Strategy Phase - The Assassins decide to pop out of the Shade unit. I successfully cast Drain Mage and swap it out using Annulian Crystal gaining back Shield of Saphery.

Movement Phase - The Star Dragon charges into the Xbow unit. The Frost Phoenix charges the Harpies which elect to flee. Subsequently the Phoenix fails to redirect and continues ahead at the Harpies (the plan was to redirect into the Xbows). The Reavers charge into the Xbows hoping to have support from the Phoenix. 2 Reavers are killed from SnS and ultimately fail the charge.
All my other units push forward to continue adding pressure. The DPs come forward aggressively.

Shooting Phase - I fail to cast Ruby Ring again. Tempest is placed infront of the Shades and I fail to cast Convocation. The Sisters only manage to kill 1 Dark Rider while the SG manage to kill 2 Shades.

Combat Phase - The Dragon kills 9 Xbows causing them to break and Flee.

DE Turn Three



Strategy Phase - Earthen Ramparts is cast on the Shades which I was unsuccessful at stopping. The Harpies Rally (however we didn’t read the rule for rallying, as we later learnt that they could’ve moved). The single Xbow continues to flee.

Movement Phase - A Continued slide to the left flank while the Dark Riders push in attempt to hold up the right flank.

Shooting Phase - Fortunately I stopped both Ruby Ring and Wind Blast on the Phoenix, and to follow that the Xbows fail to wound as well. The Shades and Assassins then manage the final wound. 2 more SMs fall and the DPs manage to save a couple of wounds.
We also discussed the placement of my Archmage in this turn and how I needed to be further behind the SG unit because of the “closest unit” part of the rule I missed.


HE Turn Three



Strategy Phase - I try Shield of Saphery on the DPs which is dispelled.

Movement Phase - DPs utilising Drilled Charge the Dark Riders, that elect to SnS. The Dragon charges the closest unit of Harpies. The Archmage finds cover in with the SG, while both Reaver units begin to retreat.

Shooting Phase - the Ruby Ring is dispelled this time so still no luck. Convocation manages to Kill 4 Shades. The Sisters kill 1 Dark Rider.

Combat Phase - The DPs manage to kill the Dark Riders and reform. The Dragon Kills the Harpies causing a panic in the second unit which then allows for an overrun into the Black Dragon.


DE Turn Four



Strategy Phase - The Xbow flees off the table and the Harpies fail to rally.

Movement Phase - I didn’t depict a lot of this well in the photo for this turn. The last remaining Harpies charge the rear of the Dragon. 2 of the Assassins jump out of the Shade unit towards the DPs. While the Dark Rider also push towards the DPs.

Shooting Phase - the Xbows manage to kill 3 SG. All the remaining shooting goes into the DPs and thankfully they only suffer 1 wound (not a lot of Amour Bane rolls).

Combat Phase - a challenge is issued from the sorceress. The Prince does 1 wound on the Black Dragon (multi wound 2), however my dragon completely whiffs his attacks. 1 wound is done back to the Star Dragon in return. Combat is then Drawn.

HE Turn Four



Strategy Phase - Shield of Saphery is successful on the DPs, and Fury is dispelled.

Movement Phase - DPs charge into one of the lone Assassins.

Shooting Phase - Convocation and shooting from the SG manage to kill 5 Shades this round. I Fluff Ruby Ring this turn again (failing to cast it for 4 turns) Sisters kill 2 Dark Riders causing them to panic.

Combat Phase - the Prince again lands 1 wound on the Black Dragon and no wounds suffered in return. The Harpies fall back in good order and the Black Dragon gives ground. The UPs and the Assassin both have a pillow fight and the DPs win on static combat res, the Assassin gives ground.


We then decide the call the game there as time was a bit of a factor having been very much a stop start while reading different rules.



I won’t do too much of a write up in terms of my post game thoughts since it is still very early days for me. All in all I am really enjoying ToW so far. There are a lot of little aspects that a very different from previous editions so some assumptions about rules are causing errors.

The Star Dragon felt OP to be using in the early learning stages but it is what it is.

Magic will take sometime to get me head around with positioning of the caster being really important this edition. I certainly want to try a more mobile caster perhaps on horse to get in range for the important spells. I think the Silvery Wand will be a better investment than the Annulian Crystal. On that note High Lore seemed underwhelming. Particularly the 2 big enchantment spells only lasting until the end of the casters turn.

The Dragon Princes are really good, just need to figure out how to best manage impetuous which is a really unfortunate rule they have. Screening them with the Reavers was the obvious option, but then it does hamstring them a little.

I enjoyed and was grateful for the tankyness of the Frost Phoenix really soaking up the damage. The usefulness for combat support is yet to be tested by me but could certainly clear out smaller threats easily enough.

I didn’t have a lot of luck with the Ruby Ring so ill still trial it for a few more games. The points could probably be better spent on a couple more Sisters.

Well I hope you enjoyed the read as much as I enjoyed the game.

H

[Halinn]

I really dig the pictures, very good visualization. Thank you for the report <3

[sparkytrypod]

Good write up, thank you.

Great spot on shield of saphery amd fury of khaine, I hadn't noticed that it they are a "this turn only" spells.

[Houdini]

I really dig the pictures, very good visualization. Thank you for the report <3

Thank you! I’m glad the pictures worked as intended.

Good write up, thank you.

Great spot on shield of saphery amd fury of khaine, I hadn't noticed that it they are a "this turn only" spells.

Thank you also! I feel the High Lore spells are actually a little worse then other lore comparisons for only slightly lower casting values. For example compare Shield of Saphery with Elementalism - Earthen Ramparts.

[tarquimis]

great battle report, very nice game.

As observations, perhaps the ruby ring on the sisters would have been more useful to you as it was out of the scatter range of her mage.
Then if I'm not mistaken drilled can only be used in the movement phase, it would not be valid for the dragon princes' charge.

And if the star dragon is a beast XD

[Halinn]

Then if I'm not mistaken drilled can only be used in the movement phase, it would not be valid for the dragon princes' charge.

Charges are still in the movement phase. Drilled doesn't specify the Remaining Moves step. The question that has people wondering if it works or not is this sentence on page 126:
"Unless stated otherwise, a charging unit cannot perform a turn, move backwards, move sideways, redress the ranks or reform manoeuvre during its charge move."

Now, Drilled says that it happens "before moving", so people are wondering if it's still 'during' the charge move if it happens before moving. Won't be resolved without a FAQ/Errata.

[Houdini]

I can certainly see the difference in interpretation for the Drilled rule. My opponent and I discussed it and agreed on allowing it prior to a charge. We both thought, why else would the drilled rule be in place otherwise? And also discussed the ruling for marching columns and why it would specifically allow you to declare a charge but not perform a charge…..figured it was most likely for drilled units.

[Morgen]

I think most people are on the drilled lets you redress before a charge that I've heard about. Haven't seen anyone going the other way on it.

There's a generic specific triumphs over general rule in most games. Plus as you said the ability for a Marching Column to declare charges must have some thing that makes it possible since you can't declare impossible charges. Drilled working before a charge is the only thing in the game we've found that would make sense for that exception as the only other thing we could think of was declaring a charge against a ranged unit and being really pessimistic about how many models you were going to lose to a stand and shoot charge reaction. Plus the declare charges/reaction is a separate part of the phase from move chargers.

It's not unreasonable that a trained group of soldiers could make adjustments to their formation while they rush at an opponent to get into combat. There are already rules/fluff examples for a more realistic stance when it comes to unit movement over game rules, like being able to wheel through things or how the world exists past the edge of the board, etc.

[Houdini]

Hey Morgen, so sorry for the very late reply! Looks like you have been correct with all of your interpretations of the different rules so far, so your input and feedback is always appreciated!

I have been a little busy lately, but the good news is that I have maintained the hobby for the most part. I have been working on putting together two lion chariots which I’ll aim to post in the painting link as I progress. I have also had a few more games of which the most recent I will write up a battle report next week. The game was against Vampire Counts and I finally put my Chracian themed army to the test. Please don’t judge me for using a couple of proxies for my Lion Chariots, but I really wanted to finally start to test and grow this list.

++ Characters [929 pts] ++

Prince [371 pts]
- Full plate armour
- General
- Lion Chariot of Chrace
- The White Sword
- Dragon Helm
- Seed of Rebirth
- Chracian Hunter

Archmage [410 pts]
- Level 4 Wizard
- Lion Chariot of Chrace
- Talisman of Protection
- Seed of Rebirth
- Silvery Wand
- Potion of Strength
- Chracian Hunter
- Illusion

Noble [148 pts]
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner]
- Seed of Rebirth
- Sea Guard

++ Core Units [506 pts] ++

5 Ellyrian Reavers [85 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Skirmishes

18 Lothern Sea Guard [291 pts]
- Thrusting spears
- Shields
- Veteran
- Sea Master (champion)
- Standard bearer [Razor Standard]
- Musician

5 Ellyrian Reavers [85 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Skirmishes

5 Elven Spearmen [45 pts]

++ Special Units [316 pts] ++

5 Dragon Princes [199 pts]
- Drakemaster
- Standard bearer

7 Swordmasters of Hoeth [117 pts]
- Drilled
- Bladelord
- Standard bearer

++ Rare Units [247 pts] ++

14 Sisters of Avelorn [247 pts]
- High Sister [Ruby Ring of Ruin]

[Houdini]

Hello Ulthuan!

back again with my first game and BR with my Chracian Themed list. sorry for the great delay between BRs but I have been a little short on time, this also means the write up may be a little scrappy but I hope it still provides enough detail. This is only my 5th game of ToW and as I said my first with the Lion Chariots leading the charge. I thoroughly enjoyed my first game without the Star Dragon and coming up against the VCs.

My List

++ Characters [929 pts] ++

Prince [371 pts]
- Full plate armour
- General
- Lion Chariot of Chrace
- The White Sword
- Dragon Helm
- Seed of Rebirth
- Chracian Hunter

Archmage [410 pts]
- Level 4 Wizard
- Lion Chariot of Chrace
- Talisman of Protection
- Seed of Rebirth
- Silvery Wand
- Potion of Strength
- Chracian Hunter
- Illusion

Noble [148 pts]
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner]
- Seed of Rebirth
- Sea Guard

++ Core Units [506 pts] ++

18 Lothern Sea Guard [291 pts]
- Shields
- Veteran
- Sea Master (champion)
- Standard bearer [Razor Standard]
- Musician

5 Ellyrian Reavers [85 pts]
- Skirmishes

5 Ellyrian Reavers [85 pts]
- Skirmishes

5 Elven Spearmen [45 pts]

++ Special Units [316 pts] ++

5 Dragon Princes [199 pts]
- Drakemaster
- Standard bearer

7 Swordmasters of Hoeth [117 pts]
- Drilled
- Bladelord
- Standard bearer

++ Rare Units [247 pts] ++

14 Sisters of Avelorn [247 pts]
- High Sister [Ruby Ring of Ruin]

Opponent’s List

++ Characters [705 pts] ++

Master Necromancer [230 pts]
- Level 4 Wizard
- Sceptre Of De Noirot
- Spell Familiar
- Power Scroll
- Necromancy

Master Necromancer [225 pts]
- Level 4 Wizard
- General
- Spell Familiar
- Skull Staff
- Necromancy

Tomb Banshee [90 pts]

Tomb Banshee [90 pts]

Wight Lord [70 pts]
- Heavy armour
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Charmed Shield

++ Core Units [501 pts] ++

30 Grave Guard [428 pts]
- Great weapons (replace shields)
- Heavy armour
- Seneschal
- Standard bearer [Drakenhof Banner]
- Musician

21 Zombies [73 pts]
- Standard bearer
- Musician

++ Special Units [384 pts] ++

5 Crypt Horrors [237 pts]
- Crypt Haunter

3 Spirit Hosts [147 pts]

++ Rare Units [410 pts] ++

Terrorgheist [205 pts]


Terrorgheist [205 pts]


Spells

Now for all that are here to read about my kamikaze doppelgänger Archmage I have to greatly disappoint already. I was unlucky and didn’t roll up the spell.

HE Archmage Illusion - Sig. Glittering Robe, 1. Mind Razor, 2. Shimmering Dragon, 3. Column of Crystal, 6. Miasmic Mirage

Necromancer General - Sig. Hellish Vigour, 3. Spiritual Vortex, 4. Curse of Years, 5. Spectral Steed, 6. Spirit Leech

Necromancer - Sig. Vanhal’s Danse Macabre, 2. Unquiet Spirits, 3. Spiritual Vortex, 5. Spectral Steed, 6 Spirit Leech

Deployment



I dropped first and figured I would deploy fairly central initially to then hopefully stack one flank. Unfortunately my left flank had the impassable terrain blocking it partly. I was aiming to really stack the right flank, but when the two blocks of Grave Guard and Zombies dropped that side, I placed the SMs and Prince to the left to avoid getting locked into combat with the bigger blocks.
I won the roll for first turn which was actually the first time I have gained first turn in ToW.

HE Turn 1



Strategy Phase - the Archmage successfully casts Glittering Robe (not sure why I felt I needed this during the early game).

Movement Phase - Shimmering Dragon is cast on the Prince to enable a shuffle to the left flank using 10” fly plus some manoeuvres. With this I then try to spread the left flank as best I can past the impassable terrain. I measure the maximum range of the enemy shooting (screams), including all the extra movement spells, to ensure I’ll be out of range of any aggressive push forward. I push forward on the right flank, screening the DPs. My plan here is to try and get the DPs into the back field. I decide not to move the SG forward into range at this point.

Shooting Phase - Ruby Ring fails to cast, and I am successful with Column of Crystal placing it as far forward as I can. The Sister only manage 1 wound on the left side Terrorgheist.

VC Turn 1



Strategy Phase - Firstly some zombies are added using Resurrect of the Fallen. An attempt is then made to heal the wound on the Terrorgheist which is unsuccessful, so my opponent follows up with the Sceptre of de Noirot to heal the wound on the Terrorgheist however the Necromancer takes a wound.
My opponent is unsuccessful with the fated dispel on Column of Crystal. However had a very big magic output during this turn. Danse Macabre is cast on the Grave Guard increasing their movement by 1”. Next Hellish Vigour is cast at the boosted level given all of the army reserve move.

Movement Phase - Both Banshee have spectral steed cast upon them. My opponent moves forward somewhat conservatively even with the Reserve move. They begin to push forward mainly repositioning to my left flank. With both Banshees and the Terrorgheist moving more towards my prince I can see he is probably the target for the screams.

Shooting Phase - A double Spiritual Vortex is cast down on the field as far forward as the range would allow (before the reserve move could be made).

HE Turn 2



Strategy Phase - as I am still just outside of dispel range I am only able to attempt a fated dispel on one of the spectral steeds which is failed. I then cast glittering robe on the Mage again and unfortunately Miasmic Mirage is just out of range (one of the difficulties of Hex and Enchantments occurring before movement).

Movement Phase - I am also very conservative with my movement as I feel I don’t have a lot of threat at this point until I get into position. My best option here is moving the DPs deep into the right flank and take a bit of a risk with the impetuous.

Shooting Phase - I leave Column of Crystal where it is, then Mind Razor is cast at the Grave Guard but dispelled. The Sea Guard only manage to kill 1 Grave Guard while the Sisters put one wound on the Terrorgheist.

VC Turn 2



Strategy Phase - the Terrorgheist and Grave Guard are healed with Resurrect. Column of Crystal is dispelled. Hellish Vigour is successful again at the boosted level, but I am at least able to dispel Danse Macabre.

Movement Phase - My opponent chooses to end one of the Spectral Steeds in an attempt to now cast it on one of the Necromancers which I was able to dispel. Everything pushes forward again within striking distance now, so next turn I won’t be able to avoid the Wails. It is hard to see but the Spirit Hosts are facing towards the middle of the battle field.

Shooting Phase - both Spiritual Vortex are ended to attempt to cast and place closer to my lines. Fortunately one cast is failed and the other I manage to dispel.

HE Turn 3



Strategy Phase - Miasmic Mirage is successfully cast on the Terrorgheist.

Movement Phase - I get lucky and pass the impetuous test. Now as the VC army has pushed to the point I can no longer hide, I really try to set up some charges to at least threaten. The Prince and SMs set up on the left flank with the Reavers providing the chaff. On the right flank I chaff the zombies so they can’t manoeuvre and block the DPs. The DPs make it into the back field to create a really good threat to multiple of the enemy units.

Shooting Phase - both Ruby Ring and Mind Razor are dispelled. The SG kill one Grave Guard again and the Sisters manage 5 wounds on the Spirit Hosts.

VC Turn 3



Strategy Phase - Grave Guard are healed with Resurrect, while more zombies added to the unit. The Necromancer attempts to heal himself with the Sceptre however rolls a one after using it and takes the wound again. The first Spirit Leech cast on the DPs is dispelled however the second is successful. The second Spectral Steed is cast on the other Banshee again. Hellish Vigour is cast at the boosted level successfully again.

Movement Phase - The Left Terrorgheist charges the Sisters taking 1 wound from S&S. The Spirit Hosts charge the Reavers that elect to flee but are unfortunately caught. The Zombies charge the other Reavers which elect to flee also but mange to get away. It isn’t depicted well but one Banshee flys to Wail at the SMs and then reserve moves following shooting back to the other side of the Terrorgheist.

Shooting Phase - Luckily I manage to dispel both Spiritual Vortex. the Wails cause a fair bit of damage (but could’ve been worse). 2 SMs die, while 3 DPs fall. I manage to pass leadership tests with the Sisters and with the SG.

Combat Phase - the Sisters manage 2 wounds on the Terrorgheist (1 saved with regen). The Terrorgheist whiffs in return and only kills 2 sisters with the stomp. This gives the Sisters the win by 1 (with the S&S wound) and that win now puts me in a good position going into turn 4.

HE Turn 4



Strategy Phase - I dispel both Spectral Steeds and then Miasmic Mirage is successfully cast on the Terrorgheist. The Reavers fail to rally.

Movement Phase - The DPs pass Impetuous test. I get a little over excited here, charging the Prince and the SMs into the Terrorgheist. I probably shouldn’t have charge the SMs into the Terrorgheist base on the easy kills that they are, however my thoughts were to attempt an overrun into the Banshees.

Shooting Phase - Ruby Ring fails again with a banshee as the target. The Sisters kill the closest Banshee and the SG kill 2 Grave Guard.

Combat Phase - unfortunately the Prince does not land a Monster Slayer blow and in combination with the SMs manages 5 wounds (2 saved with region, leaving the Gheist on 1). The Gheist does 2 wounds to the SMs in return. The win in combat causes the Terrorgheist to die and the SMs take 1 more wound from the Infested rule.

VC Turn 4



Strategy Phase - Resurrection brings the Grave Guard and Spirit Hosts back to full strength, and the Necromancer heals a wound. One Necromancer miscasts while casting Spectral Steed on himself, and Rolling a 11 on the miscast table (no more casting this turn). I dispel both Spirit Leech and Danse Macabre.

Movement Phase - Some consolidation now occurs in the middle. The Banshee falls back to the other side of the Grave Guard and the Crypt Horrors block the DPs.

Shooting Phase - Spiritual Vortex is dispelled. Both Wails are aimed at the Archmage passing one test while taking 2 wounds from the other.

HE Turn 5



Strategy Phase - I fail to cast Miasmic Mirage and Glittering Robe is dispelled. The Reavers rally returning to the fight.

Movement Phase - this time the DPs fail the Impetuous check charging into the Horrors. The Prince and SMs charge into the Grave Guard. The decision for the SMs is just to have the champion in there for the challenge. I contemplated charging the mage into the flank of the Grave Guard as well, and to be honest I probably would have if I had Doppelgänger however the ability to dispel with my level 4 was far more important in this match up. The Spear dart comes in now to provide chaff on the Zombies.

Shooting Phase - Crystal Column is dispelled. Ruby Ring is successful this time! Between fireball and the Sisters shooting I manage 7 wounds on the spirit hosts. The SG adjust aim and shoot at the Terrorgheist doing 1 wound.

Combat Phase - the DPs deal 4 wounds on the Horrors and take none return. The DPs win combat but decide not to follow up. The Prince flubs the impact hits and between the Prince and SMs I only manage 2 wounds. The SMs are slain in return however I win combat and again the prince does not follow up.

VC Turn 5



Strategy Phase - Resurrect is successful on the Terrorgheist, Horrors, and Guard healing them all back to full health. I dispel both attempts at Spirit Leech on the Prince (which is very lucky). Danse Macabre attempted on the Guard is successful increase movement by 1”.

Movement Phase - Zombies Charge the Spear dart holding their ground. The Guard attempt a 10” charge at the SG loosing 3 Guard to the S&S, and then failing the charge. The Horrors charge the DPs, that elect to flee escaping safely.

Shooting Phase - both Spiritual Vortexes are successfully place near the Prince. Unquiet Spirits is successful on the SG unit however no wounds are caused (rolling only 5 for the hits). The Prince manages to pass one LD test from the Wails and then suffers 3 wounds from the other.

Combat - The Zombies kill 2 spearmen and then cause them to break, this also dominos causing the Archmage to flee coming within 1” of the board edge (big mistake leaving the Mage with 6” of the chaffing Spears).

HE Turn 6



Strategy Phase - I attempt a fated dispel on one of the Vortex but I’m unsuccessful. The Spear unit and Archmage and DPs all Rally.

Movement Phase - The Prince charges the Terrorgheist hoping to finally get that Monster Slaying blow. The Spears move in to chaff the Zombies again.

Shooting Phase - Column of Crystal is successfully placed infant of the Zombies. Mind Razor causes 3 wounds on the Grave Guard, and the SG manage 2 wounds. The Sisters fire at the Hosts and cause another 3 wounds.

Combat - the Prince deals 5 wounds to the Terrorgheist (1 saved with regen) and takes 1 wound in return. The Prince wins combat but the Terrorgheist survives on 1 remaining wound with the help of Indomitable and the BSB.

VC Turn 6



Strategy Phase - the Terrorgheist heals 3 wounds with the 3 Resurrections. Column of Crystal is dispelled. I manage to dispel 1 Spirit Leech on the Prince but the other is successful.

Movement Phase - the Hosts charge the flank of the Prince and the Zombies charge the Spears once again.

Shooting Phase - I get extremely lucky and roll insane courage for one of the Wail tests and then only suffer 2 wounds from the second one. I thought for sure it would be the end of the Prince taking the tests at LD4.

Straight into combat the Spears are destroyed by the Zombies. The Prince finally lands the Monster Slaying wound killing the Terrorgheist and survives the attacks from the Hosts.

END GAME

I believe a small victory for the HE! Not without a large amount of luck when it came to dispelling important spells and also rolling LD against the Wails.

Aftermath thoughts

Man VCs seem like a tough match up! All the resurrection negates so much of the HE ranged attacks.

My mistakes started with deployment. I had in my mind all along that I really wanted to stack a single flank. Once I ended up with the side plagued by the impassable terrain on the left side I knew I should focused on the right flank. I placed too much concern in getting bogged down by the two big units of infantry but should’ve known I would be fast enough to manoeuvre around them just as the DPs did.

I believe I then showed good patience to set up for some counter charging once my opponent came into range of their Wails. I believe the damage could’ve been far worse from the Wailing and it could’ve swung the match greatly. However a positioned based on taking charges when the opportunity came about.

While my magic seemed pretty useless (perhaps it was the Lore choice) a level 4 is an auto include for me purely for the dispel capability.

I’ll admit it felt like a much tougher slog without the Star Dragon in the list but it was really enjoyable to take this list.

I’m going to aim to do a more detailed breakdown of my thoughts on the list and the changes I’m going to make heading into the next battle. As I’m a bit short on time now I’ll aim to get that out in the next week hopefully.

Thanks again for reading,
H

[Prince of Spires]

Thanks for the battle report. and congrats on the win. It was a fun read

Sometimes you get a bit lucky. On the other hand, that makes for some epic and memorable moments. I still remember rolling insane courage for a break test for my general as the very last roll of a battle, turning a loss / draw into a win. It's part of what makes the game awesome.

I'm wondering if in your early turns you could have done more to direct the flow of the battle. Fights are often won in the movement phase, and you seemed very wait-and-see. It could have been the best choice of course, I'm just curious.

[Houdini]

Hey Prince of Spires,
glad you enjoyed the read!
Absolutely my movement will require much more finesse. I'll admit my previous 4 games I have been spoilt with the manoeuvrability of the Dragon and Phoenix in comparison to the Chariots. I was also very conservative staying outside of the 18" range of the Terrorgheist Wails as I positioned. on the note of moving the Chariots I was only able to "move sideways" 6 inches (using 1/4 of the movement to turn 90 and then free 90 turn after movement). It will go in my long list of negatives of the chariots after just 1 game

[Prince of Spires]

It's always hard, and it's even harder to judge from the sideline. Sometimes you just end up with a tough deployment and have to make the best of it. And I think your opponent did well to keep his army together and create "exclusion zones" for you where you couldn't move because of the threats he posed.

I'm wondering for the chariot if exposing your flank for a turn would have been worth it. For instance T1 or T2, the WLC could have marched across your line to team up with the archmage and DP's on that side. You would have been stuck facing to the right board edge for a turn, but maybe would have had a positional advantage. Still, like I said it's hard to judge, and in the end you still won, so it may well have simply made things worse.

[tarquimis]

It was a fun game to read. While it is true what you have commented before that in the first turns you are very much waiting for what the opponent does, and I would have preferred to concentrate more shots in trying to kill a unit instead of chopping wounds of several that will heal.
Despite all HE victory, as I said in the telegram group congratulations for trying other different and interesting lists.

I take note of the 5 spearmen in marching column, I had not thought of that!

Looking forward to new battle reports.

Best regards

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

[Houdini]

Thanks again Prince (sorry I wrote this late at night after work ),
I think it came down to my poor deployment choice. I knew in my gut I wanted to stack the left flank but still fell to the trap of dropping some of my units on the left flank. I should’ve just deployed the Prince and SMs on the same side as the AM.

Your advice on the movement with the chariots is interesting and useful for me. As I don’t fully understand manoeuvres yet, I figured if I make a manoeuvre turn with the chariot using a quarter of the movement characteristic then I could only move 6”? Or am I able to then March 12” after the turn? Still a bit confusing to me transitioning from T9A rules.

Hey Tarquimis,
Thank you for reading and commenting on my BR. I am a little determined to go to my first ToW tournament without a Dragon but I think it could be a very tough slog for me.
I’m glad I was also able to pass on the idea for the unit of 5 spearmen. I hadn’t thought of it ether until it was mentioned on Ulthuan a couple of times. Though I have also read on some other forums that the marching column chaff infantry can be seen as unsportsmanlike to include in the list. I don’t see an issue with it personally, but just something to gauge at the local scene I guess.

Thanks,
H

[Houdini]

Thoughts on the list

I have now actually played 2 games with this list (2nd game had a few changes which I’ll talk about (the 2nd game was against Demons). So I now feel I have a bit an idea to start talking about and optimising the list.

Characters

starting with the characters as this is the spearhead of all HE lists. I want to first talk about the Lion Chariot in general (as well as a mount). To put it bluntly they have been underwhelming. Perhaps my expectations were too high but if I compare the grass on the other side at other army books it very disappointing. I could list a many of number changes, of which a singular change would improve them immensely. More strength and AP on the Lions, Swiftstride, better toughness or amour save, just to name a few. Ultimately where it stands it probably just needs to be a bit cheaper when compared to a chaos chariot.
Now I know I started mostly negative one this one, But I simply wanted to express my disappointment. I still had a lot of fun running the chariots as mounts and they can still get a job done.
The Prince packed a punch with the White Sword but I am going to switch to the Ogre Blade for more versatility and a 2+ armour save with a shield.
The Archmage was obviously a bit of a white buffalo. Both games I versus magic heavy armies so I didn’t want to get into combat purely for dispelling purposes. This defeated the purpose of a Lion Chariot Illusion Mage. In future list builds the mage will most likely be back on foot.
BSB was pretty useless for most of this game. Could’ve been because of my poor placement. I still can’t see the reason for using the points on a BSB anymore for my lists. In my second game I dropped the BSB for the Horn Handmaiden and some more Sisters.

Core

Thoroughly enjoyed my core setup here and I can’t see too many changes. Utilised the core tax mostly on chaff. Skirmish Reavers and the Spear dart are very useful chaff pieces. Since I need one unit to kind of babysit the DPs for the opening rounds I feel 3 chaff units are required. I just need to find points to maybe get some champions in the unit in future to help challenge bait with the Prince.
The SG are a very versatile core unit, and throw in the Razor standard creating a very elite core unit. The Naval discipline rule in Combination with SnS adding to combat Res gives this unit the ability to be a solid anvil.

Special and Rare

I have already praised the DPs in the thread discussing them specifically. To say it again I think they are the best non-character unit in the book. Loaded with speed, punch and lots of special rules. If I can perfect the babysitting of the impetuous special rule I will take at least 5 DPs in every list.
I have mixed feelings on the SMs as I have found them useful but very squishy (mind you I don’t think I have utilised them the best), but I am sticking with them at the moment as I’ll be able to use my Whitelion models to keep with the theme once I have painted them up. I really want to try the Phoenix Guard unit soon and I will also give the White Lion unit a go at some point but for now I don’t see how they can be useful.
The Sisters are such a great unit! I didn’t get a huge amount of purchase this game with the constant healing of my opponents army. But the easy kill of the Banshee with the magical bows was satisfying. My second game the Sister were MVP against the DL for obvious reasons.

I have changed my list to a 3rd iteration which I’ll post in the Army list thread as well. I have 2 main lists ideas which I am jumping between now for an upcoming tournament, though here is the next one I’ll test:

Characters [856pts]

Archmage [230pts]: High Magic, Wizard Level 4, Silvery Wand, Talisman Of Protection, Sea Guard

Noble [258pts]: Shield, Full Plate Armour, Griffon, Dragon Slaying Sword, Pure of Heart

Prince [368pts]: Shield, Full Plate Armour, General, Dragon Helm, Ogre Blade, Seed of Rebirth, Chracian Hunter
• 1x Lion Chariot [125pts]

Core [501pts]

5 x Ellyrian Reavers [93pts]: Skirmishers, Cavalry Spear, Harbinger

5 x Ellyrian Reavers [85pts]: Skirmishers, Cavalry Spear

5x Elven Spearmen [45pts]

17x Lothern Sea Guard [278pts]: Sea Master, Standard Bearer (Razor Standard), Musician, Shields, Veterans

Special [412pts]

5x Dragon Princes [206pts]: Drakemaster, Standard Bearer, Musician

Lion Chariot of Chrace [125pts]:

5x Swordmasters of Hoeth [81pts]: Bladelord, Drilled

Rare [231pts]

14 x Sisters of Avelorn [231pts]: Stubborn, High Sister

[Halinn]

I still can’t see the reason for using the points on a BSB anymore for my lists.

I think the big one is that a BSB with Pure of Heart can act as a ld 9 general if your Prince is out of range or you're not bringing one. Can open up some double archmage lists, or just the option to spend less on characters

[Houdini]

I think the big one is that a BSB with Pure of Heart can act as a ld 9 general if your Prince is out of range or you're not bringing one. Can open up some double archmage lists, or just the option to spend less on characters

A very good point to my overly harsh assessment of the BSB