HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

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Swordmaster of Hoeth
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Re: MSU Elves - KoW - Edge of the Abyss - Summary

#1201 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hello,

Here is the link to the introduction to the series of the reports from the most recent tournament in Canberra, The Valley of Kings 4:

The Valley of Kings 4

Thanks!
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Re: MSU Elves - KoW - The Valley of Kings 4 - Introduction

#1202 Post by RE.Lee »

So, did the global campaign mix things up in the end?
cheers, Lee

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Re: MSU Elves - KoW - The Valley of Kings 4 - Introduction

#1203 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

I think it did. The official version of the updated background is going to be released with the new supplement called the Source Book that is planned for December.
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Re: MSU Elves - KoW - The Valley of Kings 4 - Introduction

#1204 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hello,

Here is the link to the game 1 of the tournament, The Valley of Kings 4:

Game 61 - Elves - 2017/11/01

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Thanks!
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Re: MSU Elves - KoW - The Valley of Kings 4 - Elves - 2017/1

#1205 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hello,

Here is the link to the game 2 of the tournament:

Game 62 - Forces of the Abyss - 2017/11/03

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Thank you for reading.
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Re: MSU Elves - KoW - The Valley of Kings 4 - Abyss - 2017/1

#1206 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hello,

Here is the link to the game 3 of the tournament:

Game 63 - Undead - 2017/11/05

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Re: MSU Elves - KoW - The Valley of Kings 4 - Undead- 2017/1

#1207 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hello,

Today I have three links to two battle reports and one tournament summary:

Game 64 - Night Stalkers - 2017/11/08

Game 65 - Elves - 2017/11/11

Valley of Kings 4 - Summary

Thank you.
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Re: MSU Elves - KoW - The Valley of Kings 4 -Summary- 2017/1

#1208 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hello,

Here is the link to the series of posts I wrote about the Armies of Australian Masters 2017:

Armies of Australian Masters 2017

Thanks for reading!
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Re: MSU Elves - KoW - Armies of Australian Masters 2017

#1209 Post by Celoril Le'fer »

Thanks for the work gathering all these lists together, illustrating them as you do, and taking time to comment them. I haven't got too much experience of the game yet, so seeing how people approach such an arena in army building is very educative.
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Re: MSU Elves - KoW - Armies of Australian Masters 2017

#1210 Post by Avicii »

Hey SM,

It has been a long time since I have made my way onto Ulthuan.net. Great to see your Battle reps are still going strong, but unfortunately for me and your 8th ed followers that you have fallen away to KoW.

I have recently started to learn T9A since the new 2.0 has been released. I am remaining sceptical until I get some games under my belt.

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Re: MSU Elves - KoW - Armies of Australian Masters 2017

#1211 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hello,

@Celoril Le'fer

I am glad you found it useful and I hope you keep playing KoW!

@Avicii

I am sorry for very late reply but I don't visit Ulthuan often. Quite opposite to be honest.

I find that KoW suits me perfectly and I consider it a much better game than any fantasy systems I have played so far. I really recommend it if you have not tried it yet.
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Re: MSU Elves - Kings of War

#1212 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hello,

I just wanted to say good bye. If you are interested in KoW battle reports as well as related modelling/painting projects, please, follow this link:

http://swordmasterofhoeth.blogspot.com.au/
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Re: Good bye

#1213 Post by RE.Lee »

It has been an honour Swordmaster! Drop by from time to time :cry:
cheers, Lee

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Re: MSU Elves - Kings of War

#1214 Post by Giladis »

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:Hello,

I just wanted to say good bye. If you are interested in KoW battle reports as well as related modelling/painting projects, please, follow this link:

http://swordmasterofhoeth.blogspot.com.au/

Calm seas mate!
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Re: Good bye

#1215 Post by Elias Kalderon »

Bye!
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Re: Good bye

#1216 Post by SpellArcher »

Goodbye SM and thanks. You contributed a hell of a lot. Good luck with everything KoW.
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Re: Good bye

#1217 Post by Prince of Spires »

What everyone else said. Sorry to see you go and thanks for everything you've contributed. And when Warhammer draws you back in, you'll know where to find us ;)
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Re: HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

#1218 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hello!

It's been quite a while since I have posted on Ulthuan. In fact, I thought I would not anymore but that was before Warhammer Old War was even announced. it is great to see that TOW reinvigorated the forum.

I had an opportunity to play my first game recently and I wrote the battle report in the same style I used to do under 8 edition.

Here is the link: Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

I hope you like it and thanks for reading!
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Re: HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

#1219 Post by Jimmy »

You should never had said goodbye. :)

Great to see you back. Looking forward to these becoming regular reading material.
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Re: HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

#1220 Post by Morgen »

Very interesting read and it sounds like you two had a really fun first game!
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Re: HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

#1221 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Jimmy and Morgen,

Many thanks for your comments!

@Jimmy

I would love to come back to regular gaming in general and to continue practicing and testing ideas for TOW. This includes some modelling and painting too! I am afraid, however, that it may not be that often. But I will try to make it somewhat "regular". :)

@Morgen

Thank you! I am glad you liked it. Indeed, it was a fun game for both of us. Nice mix of nostalgia and excitement about the new game!

Cheers!
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Re: HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

#1222 Post by Noble Korhedron »

V. interesting; will read tomorrow. Headed to bed, as I'm feeling unwell...
Regards,

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Re: HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

#1223 Post by Ielthan »

Great to see you back and gaming again. When I first read the BBB I did wonder if MSU will be better in this edition than it was in 8th, and did think of you and your dedication to it! Will be fascinating to see how you go with it.
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Re: HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

#1224 Post by Houdini »

So great to see you back SM! Having a read of your BR very shortly.
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Re: HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

#1225 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi guys!

Thanks for comments!
Noble Korhedron wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:13 am V. interesting; will read tomorrow. Headed to bed, as I'm feeling unwell...
Sorry to hear you were not well and I hope things are better now. I am glad you found the report interesting!
Ielthan wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:16 pm Great to see you back and gaming again. When I first read the BBB I did wonder if MSU will be better in this edition than it was in 8th, and did think of you and your dedication to it! Will be fascinating to see how you go with it.
Thanks! I will experiment with MSU for sure. It may take a while (not that much hobby time these days) but I promise to report any progress. :)
Houdini wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 5:07 am So great to see you back SM! Having a read of your BR very shortly.
Cheers! Let me know how you liked it!
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Re: HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

#1226 Post by Prince of Spires »

Nice report :) and great to see you drop in again :)

Seems like you had a great first battle in TOW. I agree that plenty of things are sort of similar but also very different.

I'm not yet sold on MSU in TOW. The mechanics feel like they make it harder to pull off, since you run the risk of simply not getting any or many attacks in. SM are still decent I guess, since with their I they can actually still go first against plenty of stuff even if they get charged. On the other hand, with only 1 attack, their damage output might feel a bit meh. As for WL, I think they suffer a lot from Strike Last. They're still squishy T3 models with paperthin armour. You don't want to go after other stuff. I guess you just need to play and post a lot of battles so we get a better idea of how they perform ;)

Magic feels very much like the 6th edition TK magic phase, where you didn't have a lot of high damage spells, but it was relentless. No single spell is going to win you the game. And with the unlimited dispelling, you don't get all that much cast (assuming you both have the same lvl on your mage). But it is relentless. There is no reason not to cast a spell if you can, even if the benefit would only be minimal. The only exception might be T6, where you don't want to risk the 1-in-36 chance of a miscast that might kill your mage. Other than that, there's no reason not to cast something like Courage of Aenarion T1, even if you never expect to need unbreakable that turn. Same with dispelling or dispelling RiP spells. If you're in range, there is no reason not to pick up your dice and attempt a dispell.

I don't mind it. I think it's fresh and new. And I guess it makes positioning more important than the tactics of which spell to cast and in what order.
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Re: HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

#1227 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Prince of Spires, Hello! :)

Many thanks for your insightful comments. And yes, it does feel good to be back :)

I have an impression that many players "returning" to the game of Warhammer, by default would try their most successful army list first and try to make it work under the new rules. It seems natural and I am not an exception here either. Whether one can successfully transition with a more-or-less similar army style, is a different question. I guess it also depends what "successful" means for a person.

In any case, my main goal at the moment is to be able to learn the nuances of TOW first. There seems to be such a diversity of options that I don't think there is going to be a single way of doing it. Which is great, because there is a promise of a variety of armies to be fielded by the players, even within the same faction.

I am also interested in learning how much of the past experience is going to be useful and how much needs to be discarded. Of course, I would love to reach the stage where I can field MSU style army, enjoy playing it and be able to win more often than not.

You made several very good points. I had similar initial reflections as well, which I attribute to the habits of 8ed experience. However, the more I read the rules, the more I arrive to the conclusion that when one thing is considered, there are a few more that are related and make the whole topic quite multi-dimensional.

For example: It is a fact that Swordmasters (and many units in the game general) have fewer attacks, don't have re-rolls to hit etc. that made them so good in 8ed. However, it is also a fact that units have less armour than they used to. What is more, entire front rank fights, regardless of how many models are in base-to-base contact. So, as usual, positioning and co-ordination of attacks is going to be the key (as before) but perhaps in a different fashion.

Another example: Yes, White Lions have only heavy armour and strike last. However, some high Strength weapons do not have significant armour penetration values and it may happen that your units still have a decent chance to save something. And even with striking last, when you charge (and with Elven reflexes), you end up with I5, which may be enough to hit the enemy first. Combined with the ability to move through some terrain easier due to open order, they may be quite handy in threatening the flanks. Oh, and with fewer attacks per model in general, and their WS5, many foes will hit them on 4+ anyway. That may often result in few casualties as well.

And there are a lot of examples like that, where you simply have to take into account variety of rules and scenarios and try to play to your advantages. Which I like a lot in this game. Can be more challenging to make it work but feels very satisfying when it does.

While I think I learned a lot in a single game, I have no doubt there is much more to understand out there. I fully expect that it will take some time to test old ideas before new ones start popping up.

With some other areas, however, one needs to start thinking differently already. Magic seems to me as the most obvious example at the moment. You are spot on with the comparison. I think players would need to develop that long term thinking with how to incorporate magic in their armies in the first place, and how to make the most out of it during the game. It often feels like an indirect approach as opposed to powerful spells of 8ed where the impact was immediate and quite dramatic.

Once again, I really like it even if I had a single level 1 Loremaster in my first game. Perhaps this is where the new element of successful MSU is also hidden. I.e., how to make magic work in a way that helps smaller units to overwhelm bigger enemies faster.

The most beautiful thing for me at the moment is that TOW is essentially a new game, with huge amount of yet to be discovered things in it. I just wish I had as much time as during 8ed to test all the new ideas and post battle reports as often as I used to! :)

Cheers!
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Re: HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

#1228 Post by Sathelon »

Great, this is the reason I came back to Ulthuan as well. Quality input like this! Thank you.
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Re: HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

#1229 Post by Lagast »

Quality posts like this are the reason I came back to Ulthuan.
Great battle report, gives me insights for my future Old World battles. Looking forward to read about your next MSU battles.
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Re: HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

#1230 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Sathelon and Lagast,

Many thanks for your kind words. I am very happy to know that the old school style of the report is what you like to read. And that it provided some useful insights into Warhammer the Old World. Indeed, there is a lot to learn and I am sure that, in due time, we will witness some new, very interesting concepts for armies and styles of play.

Cheers!
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