2000 New-Age EAF

[Axiem]

Hi all --

Spent some time thinking about new strategies and tactics after my first few games, and applying them to previous concepts. One that jumped out at me was EAF. Budgies have become monster-y, fiery- birds now. Some common thoughts:

- 5x Spearmen or 5x Archers (ideally) in core, in Marching Column can be just as effective as a Great Eagle, and they count towards Core. The Archers in particular are great because they can volley fire and get their shots, if they don't move.

- Besides Swordmaster darts and Dragon Princes, maybe Tiranoc Chariots, I don't see much use for the Special entries in the book.

- BSBs seem entirely less important than they were previously. Honour-related minimization and Veteran makes a BSB optional for high level play.

- Strength of HE seems to be spamming Seed of Rebirth & Opal Amulet.


With that in mind, here's what I've cooked up:

338 -- Prince, General, Pure of Heart, on Griffon, Full Plate, Shield, Giant Blade, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet
322 -- Prince, Pure of Heart, on Griffon, Full Plate, Shield, Great Weapon, Dragon Helm, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet
330 -- Mage, Level 2, Battle Magic, Anointed of Asuyran, on Flamespyre Phoenix, Silver Wand, Seed of Rebirth

420 -- 26 Lothern Sea Guard, Veterans, Full Command, Razor Standard, Loremaster's Cloak
45 -- 5 Elven Spearmen
45 -- 5 Elven Spearmen

170 -- Flamespyre Phoenix
170 -- Flamespyre Phoenix
80 -- Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
80 -- Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower

TOTAL: 2000


The only real weakness I can see is Horn of Fedemund, which I should expect in tournament lists. Otherwise, it has everything I could hope for: very strong shooting phase, decent magic phase, strong combat elements, and lots of mobility. It also can conserve points very well, and has multiple sources of auto-hits from the Phoenixes.


EDIT:

The more...fiery version of the list, but I disregarded for tournament play because it's an auto loss against Federmund.

360 -- Archmage, Level 3, Battle Magic, Anointed of Asuryan, on Flamespyre Phoenix, Seed of Rebirth
313 -- Noble, General, Anointed of Asuryan, on Flamespyre Phoenix, Shield, Full Plate Armour, Giant Blade, Seed of Rebirth
317 -- Noble, Anointed of Asuryan, on Flamespyre Phoenix, Shield, Full Plate Armour, Great Weapon, Dragonhelm, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet

420 -- 26 Lothern Sea Guard, Veterans, Full Command, Razor Standard, Loremaster's Cloak
45 -- 5 Elven Spearmen
45 -- 5 Elven Spearmen

170 -- Flamespyre Phoenix
170 -- Flamespyre Phoenix
80 -- Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
80 -- Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower

TOTAL: 2000


Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

Kind regards,

Axiem

[Prince of Spires]

I'm not really sold on the spearmen darts. Let us know how they perform when you give them a spin. They're cheap, but that's about all that can be said of them. Eagle and reavers are still faster. if you ever desired to get into a fight, they also hit harder.

I do agree that you could (with that list) probably go without BSB. I don't think they're as much an auto-include as they were last editions.

Why are you going for Flamespires over frosthearts? I'm just curious. They seem a lot more equal this edition than in 8th.

[Morgen]

Not exactly sure how you're comparing a great eagle to a unit of five elves on foot but I'm always interested in new tactics. Nice to see firebirds.

[Hoeth]

Not exactly sure how you're comparing a great eagle to a unit of five elves on foot but I'm always interested in new tactics. Nice to see firebirds.

It's an innovative idea, 5 spears in marching column for 3x move march, acting as chaff. Hence the "dart"

[Pash]

I've played one game with the flamebird and i've found it tricky to use. LD7 is a pain, for both marchblocking and panic tests. You want to ideally fly over a unit and clear it, turn round and threaten to charge something small or combo charge into the rear. With such a big base and the way movement works now, it's a very difficult manoeuvre to pull off, especially with unmounted birds. The D6 hits is nice but it's amazing and if you're only getting it 2-3 times in a game max, is that worth the points? Not convinced.

I think with a mage on top they may be a bit more viable, as it boosts the LD by one (or more if General is nearby) and she wants to stay out of combat generally anyway. Lack of Terror on them is a pain and they're not as survivable as i'd like for the points. I'm afraid i'm not sold on the idea but I like where you were going with the double Griffons. Could be something there.

Let us know if you manage to get any games in with this set up. Would be good to see real-world experience on this theme.

[Axiem]

Thanks for the feedback.

General response:

- Famespyres is a mini monster with a ranged auto-hit attack. Thinking about them as "big Eagles" rather than "small Frosthearts" is the right approach here. They won't single-charge any targets unless they're very light, but they can help you completely control the chaff game.

- Ld7 is a concern. Positioning of Pure of Heart Characters is key.


I was hoping to get a game in today, but doesn't look like it's in the cards this weekend! I've also gone back to the original concept designs, and came up with this:


252 — Noble, Pure of Heart, on Griffon, Full Plate Armour, Shield, Lance, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet
252 — Noble, Pure of Heart, on Griffon, Full Plate Armour, Shield, Lance, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet
252 — Noble, Pure of Heart, on Griffon, Full Plate Armour, Shield, Lance, Seed of Rebirth, Opal Amulet
200 — Archmage, General, Pure of Heart, Level 4, Battle Magic, Silver Wand

153 — 13 Elven Archers, Veterans, Champion, Standard
126 — 5 Silver Helms, Shields, Champion
126 — 5 Silver Helms, Shields, Champion
50 — 5 Elven Spearmen, Champion
50 — 5 Elven Spearmen, Champion

192 — 5 Dragon Princes, Champion

187 — 12 Sisters of Avelorn, Champion
80 — Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
80 — Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower

TOTAL: 2000


One of the things I really want to test is the Dragon Princes in Marching Columns. I think, especially for the price, are probably better than the weakened Frostheart Phoenix. I may try to take 2x units of them. The other big thing that keeps getting me about the Phoenix in general is the Horn. For tournament play, I have to assume I'll run against it, so I need units that can still move, even some, rather than getting down to M2. For that reason, less and less interested in Phoenixes atm.

Kind regards,

Axiem

[Prince of Spires]

Interesting list. Lots of small, mobile stuff. Though the archers and sisters will probably end up being a bit lonely.

Note though that your archmage can't be your general in this case. Nobles are LD 9, while the archmage is LD 8, so one of the nobles will end up as your general.

[anorexia]

@Axiem
You dont play alot againts WE and shooty HE do You?
im asking because those nobles can be made a little bit more tanky, with permanent ward on 1 and dragon helm on 2nd dude. Its like 40+ poison arrows per turn + lord with 4 -2 AS shots.
Anyway, i like the roster!

[Axiem]

@Prince of Spires

Good catch -- previous versions. Will fix the General piece.

@Anorexia

No WE in my meta currently -- while I might like to bump up the survivability a little more, they're significantly more survivable than the Eagles-Characters they were before. Original EAF from 8th ended up with 3x Prince Nobles with various defensive kit. With T5, 5 Wounds, and Armour/Regen/Ward, these nobles can do things the previous Princes couldn't.

If I played against that many Poison shots, I think I'd actually be pretty happy to trade 1 noble before getting into the lines. I doubt that they could kill 2x Nobles in one turn if I'm careful. How punishing has your experience against WE been?

Kind regards,

Axiem

[anorexia]

I played with a WE player where his core and rare section is archers/scouts/waywatchers only. Watchers are poison/-2ap, poison on archers and scouts. Lord with bow of loren.
Rest is warhawks and some cavalry. It is like 60++ shots per turn. I deployed near table edge. I knew i will be playing him so i picked up a noble on tiranoc with 2+ save and reaver bow, and 22 sisters.
I had a forest in my zone so sisters stayed there and we shooted each other untill we tied the game xD

Its disgusting, but in a good way ;] i rly think that those 3 griffons will make it through.