Spell Generation

[SpellArcher]

A wizard rolls and retains the spell Fireball (for example). A second wizard from the same army also rolls that spell. Can he keep it?

[Giladis]

Yes. You can now have multiple instances of the same spell as long as they are not on the same wizard.

[Morgen]

The rules for wizards are in effect that they can only cast one spell in each phase of the game. There are not appear to be any limitation on duplicate spells or casting the same spell in the same phase. So you can keep it can cast both of them in your shooting phase.

[Prince of Spires]

To add in the page reference: BBB p 319, the italic text at the bottom of the page: "Note that wizards in the same army may know the same spell"

It's the only place where it gives a definitive answer. The description in the magic chapter doesn't mention this and leaves it a bit ambiguous...

[SpellArcher]

Thanks guys. That's what I thought but good to get confirmation from those who know more about this game than I currently do. There must be some interesting phases based on repeat casting.

To add in the page reference: BBB p 319, the italic text at the bottom of the page: "Note that wizards in the same army may know the same spell"

Much appreciated Rod.

It's the only place where it gives a definitive answer. The description in the magic chapter doesn't mention this and leaves it a bit ambiguous...

Several times with ToW I've found a rules point clarified in an unexpected place.

[Prince of Spires]

Several times with ToW I've found a rules point clarified in an unexpected place.

Same. There have been plenty of times where I know I've read something somewhere. But then I have to spend half an hour paging through the books to find the actual reference. And it's usually tucked away in some remote corner where you wouldn't expect it.

[Giladis]

Having spent the past 8 years with T9A way of writing rules and layout W:ToW books are too "messy" from an ease of use PoV. They might be easier to read through as the text is not as dry but finding solutions is a bit of a drag.

[Bolt Thrower]

I have been finding this page (linked below) extremely helpful as a supplement to my searches through the BBB. It’s fast and the search function works well.

https://tow.whfb.app/

Definitely will be useful during a game when looking up things in the BBB could be time consuming.

[NHB]

Might I point to https://tow.whfb.app/ as a resource? Let's hope GW doesn't kill it. They did make him take down a bunch of Artwork last year IIRC - but were entirely gentlemanly about it, but let him keep up the rules at least. It is searchable and has handy links in-sentence where another rule is mentioned.

Ah @Bolt Thrower beat me to it

[SpellArcher]

Thanks guys.

It struck me that spell selection might be more of a priority than in 8th? Having to re-roll doubles in particular complicates things. Seredain's list for example has Lvl 4 Silvery Wand plus Lvl 2 Lore Familiar and I suspect he's not the only one. It reminds me of Lord Anathir's build under 7th. I guess it just makes sense to ensure that almost all the spells you're paying for will be useful ones.

I've not looked into the High Elves that much but it's striking that solid items like Sigil of Asuryan can get left on the table because spell selection may just be too important. I note that Lileath's Blessing is kind of a built-in Arcane Item already but still.

[Morgen]

Well it's a lot different from WHFB because now all your wizards normally will get to try to cast every single one of their spells every single turn. A out-of-the-box Archmage without any upgrades is going to be trying to cast 4 spells every turn at full strength.

The biggest thing I've noticed is making sure you've got some spells you don't need to roll like 9's to cast. It's sad to see a level 2 mage roaming about trying to cast Vaul's Unmaking or something silly.

It can be fun to fish for a big roll and get off a clutch spell. That's part of the fun of magic in Warhammer. If you're going to rely on regularly casting a particular spell though you'll want to remember your probability curve.

The Dark Fortress has a good write up about it for 40k which pretty much applies.
https://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/tech_ ... _rolls.php

[SpellArcher]

Well it's a lot different from WHFB because now all your wizards normally will get to try to cast every single one of their spells every single turn. A out-of-the-box Archmage without any upgrades is going to be trying to cast 4 spells every turn at full strength.

I take the point that there'll be more casts now, perhaps of less powerful spells. Bearing in mind the restrictions to casting though, especially range, I suspect it will take a cleverly built repertoire and excellent positioning for an Archmage to cast four effective spells per turn.

Spells look generally weaker now, unit-busters and wild combat buffs have been nerfed hard. So it might not be a priority for the foe to dispel everything. There'll still be that moment though when a spell prevents a crucial charge or that nasty Daemonology buff goes off where Sigil of Asuryan will be key IMHO. Yes, other races have good Arcane Items but no Dispel Scroll worth the name, that's a clear edge for HE's IMHO.

To be clear though, I haven't played yet and may be missing things.

The biggest thing I've noticed is making sure you've got some spells you don't need to roll like 9's to cast. It's sad to see a level 2 mage roaming about trying to cast Vaul's Unmaking or something silly.

Exactly. I'd be aiming for stuff I could cast on a 5+ or less, maybe 6+ if the spell's a real peach.

[Ielthan]

Not really related but I wish they'd given each army it's own lore attribute, I thought that would have been a cool way to make the magic a bit more specific to each army. e.g. I felt even in 8th that wood elves should have had their own lore like 6th, and the lore attribute should have been treesinging, would have been very dynamic.

[TyrrenAzureblade]

Yes, other races have good Arcane Items but no Dispel Scroll worth the name, that's a clear edge for HE's IMHO.

You've not seen the Cube of Darkness in the Lizardmen Arcane Items list then. It automatically dispels AND dispels ALL 'remains in play' spells on the board.

[Ielthan]

Yes, other races have good Arcane Items but no Dispel Scroll worth the name, that's a clear edge for HE's IMHO.

You've not seen the Cube of Darkness in the Lizardmen Arcane Items list then. It automatically dispels AND dispels ALL 'remains in play' spells on the board.

Hasn't it always done that? Also in this edition with how easy it is to reliably get off spells with a lvl 4, I don't think that's a big deal tbh. I don't think any dispel scroll type items are really worth it, especially with the individual power of spells being reduced. Something with AoE MR like our banner seem much better value across the length of a game.

[Giladis]

Also in this edition with how easy it is to reliably get off spells with a lvl 4

Can you please elaborate? I am interested in your thought process on how you came to that conclusion because there are only a handful of spells even a Level 4 can cast reliably in ToW. The casting values of spells due to the limitation of using only two "power" dice makes pretty much every wizard below L4 an unreliable points investment.

[Morgen]

I'm pretty sure the dwarfen mountain holds also have a dispel rune of some kind, so it's said.

Level 1-3 mages have some spells they should be able to get off more often than not that a level 4 might overkill. Especially with Lileath's Blessing. Lv2 shouldn't have too much trouble casting 7+ pretty reliably.

[TyrrenAzureblade]

Yes, other races have good Arcane Items but no Dispel Scroll worth the name, that's a clear edge for HE's IMHO.

You've not seen the Cube of Darkness in the Lizardmen Arcane Items list then. It automatically dispels AND dispels ALL 'remains in play' spells on the board.

Hasn't it always done that? Also in this edition with how easy it is to reliably get off spells with a lvl 4, I don't think that's a big deal tbh. I don't think any dispel scroll type items are really worth it, especially with the individual power of spells being reduced. Something with AoE MR like our banner seem much better value across the length of a game.

The point presented was that High Elves had an edge with the Sigil of Asuryan, so I was speaking to that in case it wasn't clear to you. We're not the only army with an item that dispels automatically, as Morgen has also pointed out. The Dwarfs also have it a lot cheaper at 25 points vs ours being 40. The Lizardmen Cube is 50, but it also dispells all Remains in Play spells. I wouldn't underestimate the ability to automatically dispel a spell at the right moment. Something like Daemonic Vessel, Battle Lust, Plague of Rust or Word of Pain can really swing a combat against you. I've yet to run more than one Archmage in a list, but there have been times where I would have loved to have a Sigil Of Asuryan caddy to just outright dispel something. I do wish that Lileath's Blessing also allowed you to re-roll a Dispel roll once a turn.

[Houdini]

The rules for wizards are in effect that they can only cast one spell in each phase of the game. There are not appear to be any limitation on duplicate spells or casting the same spell in the same phase. So you can keep it can cast both of them in your shooting phase.

I may have read the rules wrong, but for my own sanity I thought a Wizard could cast all of their spells just once per turn? So if they know an enchantment and a Hex (or two Enchantments) for example, they can cast both of these in the Strategy Phase?

[Csjarrat]

The rules for wizards are in effect that they can only cast one spell in each phase of the game. There are not appear to be any limitation on duplicate spells or casting the same spell in the same phase. So you can keep it can cast both of them in your shooting phase.

I may have read the rules wrong, but for my own sanity I thought a Wizard could cast all of their spells just once per turn? So if they know an enchantment and a Hex (or two Enchantments) for example, they can cast both of these in the Strategy Phase?

They can but they need to be in range, in facing and such so it rarely means you can realistically cast everything you know.
Multiple wizards can cast the same spell if they both rolled it up. But a single wizard can't duplicate spells and can't use multiple bound spells either

[Ielthan]

The rules for wizards are in effect that they can only cast one spell in each phase of the game. There are not appear to be any limitation on duplicate spells or casting the same spell in the same phase. So you can keep it can cast both of them in your shooting phase.

I may have read the rules wrong, but for my own sanity I thought a Wizard could cast all of their spells just once per turn? So if they know an enchantment and a Hex (or two Enchantments) for example, they can cast both of these in the Strategy Phase?

They can but they need to be in range, in facing and such so it rarely means you can realistically cast everything you know.
Multiple wizards can cast the same spell if they both rolled it up. But a single wizard can't duplicate spells and can't use multiple bound spells either

Archmage mounted on steed (no barding), in unit of reavers with skirmish for 360 degree los, run high magic with annulian crystal or silvery wand. Move into range/line of sight, cast what you can, cast walk between worlds to reserve move out of enemy range/line of sight. Will be very hard to deal with I think.

[Csjarrat]

Yeah that's one of the better options but you're one failed dispel of ruby ring away from potential disaster

[Ielthan]

Yeah that's one of the better options but you're one failed dispel of ruby ring away from potential disaster

I'd take loremaster's cloak on him too for the 4+ ward too and pure of heart to auto pass panic tests, but also trying to stay out of sight like 40k Eldar and then popping out to launch spells would be the ideal way to use him. Keeping mages both safe and in a position to really effect the game seems really key now. Not sure we have a perfect option but this seems pretty good and points efficient.

[Houdini]

The rules for wizards are in effect that they can only cast one spell in each phase of the game. There are not appear to be any limitation on duplicate spells or casting the same spell in the same phase. So you can keep it can cast both of them in your shooting phase.

I may have read the rules wrong, but for my own sanity I thought a Wizard could cast all of their spells just once per turn? So if they know an enchantment and a Hex (or two Enchantments) for example, they can cast both of these in the Strategy Phase?

They can but they need to be in range, in facing and such so it rarely means you can realistically cast everything you know.
Multiple wizards can cast the same spell if they both rolled it up. But a single wizard can't duplicate spells and can't use multiple bound spells either

Thank you for the clarification.