A Look at High Elf Rules in The Old World

[Axiem]

It just occurred to me, if you deploy dragon princes in marching column, does that negate impetuous? Then can march a whopping 24" and free reform on their flank, turn 2 smash their flank to smithereens, unless I'm misunderstanding the rules? If this is a thing it radically changes how cavalry can be used, as you can march so far as to potentially get out of charge arcs, and combo with great eagle redirection, it seems very hard to prevent.

I have been debating this with myself for a long while as well, since it seems to be a loophole. However, I don't think this is the case.

Yes, units in Marching Column formation can't charge (Big Blue Book p101). However, on BBB p119, under "who can charge", it mentions "A unit in Marching Column can declare a charge, but cannot make a charge move." Impetuous only requires that you are able to declare a charge, not that you can actually make that charge. So based on that, I would say that if you are in Marching Column, you have to declare a charge on a 1-3, you just automatically fail the charge.

I'm still not clear on this, and I read it differently, let me know what you think:

1. Marching Column: "Units that are in Marching Column can declare a charge, but cannot make a charge move..."

2. Drilled: "Unless it is fleeing, a Drilled unit may perform a redress the ranks maneuver immediately before moving..."

Here's how I'm reading this:

1. I'm in Marching Column, I declare a charge with a unit that has Drilled;

2. Before I go to move the Charge, I get a decision point, either a) redress the ranks, causing me to fall out of Marching Column formation, or b) do not redress the ranks, retaining my Marching Column formation;

3. If I select B, I am therefore still in Marching Column formation, and cannot complete the charge. If I select A and redress the ranks such that I fall out of Marching Column, I therefor proceed to the "Moving Charges" section;

4. Now that I am no longer in Marching Column formation, the second sentence of Marching Column no longer applies, and I can now move charge based on other formations;


Unless I'm missing something, the way I read this is that you can complete a charge IF 1) you start in Marching Column; AND 2) you readdress your ranks out of Marching Column with Drilled.

Thoughts?

Kind regards,

Axiem

[Seredain]

It just occurred to me, if you deploy dragon princes in marching column, does that negate impetuous? Then can march a whopping 24" and free reform on their flank, turn 2 smash their flank to smithereens, unless I'm misunderstanding the rules? If this is a thing it radically changes how cavalry can be used, as you can march so far as to potentially get out of charge arcs, and combo with great eagle redirection, it seems very hard to prevent.

I have been debating this with myself for a long while as well, since it seems to be a loophole. However, I don't think this is the case.

Yes, units in Marching Column formation can't charge (Big Blue Book p101). However, on BBB p119, under "who can charge", it mentions "A unit in Marching Column can declare a charge, but cannot make a charge move." Impetuous only requires that you are able to declare a charge, not that you can actually make that charge. So based on that, I would say that if you are in Marching Column, you have to declare a charge on a 1-3, you just automatically fail the charge.

Ah seems they've seen this coming.

Still though a screening unit of reavers with scout or shadow warriors would allow the marching column to deploy on the edge of your zone, and then pull off the same trick right?

A cheapish unit of 5 dragon princes, screened by 5 reavers from core could seriously command a flank in a way they never could before, and best of all turn 1 the reavers can redirect any potential counter flankers easily as they've scouted up.

Counter charge, M8 (sadly not 9 anymore....) and elf initiative plus reflexes, first charge, all make Dragon Princes potentially so powerful on a flank with this turn 2 flank charge threat. Makes me think of how you can use cavalry in napoleonic wargames, except there are no pesky infantry squares to stop you! Could be worth taking cloak of beards (terror) on the champ to really ram home the flank rolling potential.

As said above cannons would be a big threat. Interesting that people are complaining about them not being monster snipers anymore, but being more threatening to Marching columns, to the point of deterring them is far more realistic.

Really need to get to grips with Marching columns, they may change the nature of high elf armies a lot. Our speed makes it too dangerous for most opponents to use them against us, but we can use them much more. Also we have widespread access to drilled so no worries of being march blocked.

Cannons remain a serious problem don’t they. I’m starting to look at Illusion partly so I could throw a column of crystal up in front of cannons.

[Giladis]

I believe this is the relevant section

Manoeuvring During A Charge
Unless stated otherwise, a charging unit cannot perform a
turn, move backwards, move sideways, redress the ranks or
reform manoeuvre during its charge move.


Therefore Drilled would only allow Redess of Ranks in the remaining moves sub-phase prior to moving the unit in it.

[Seredain]

It just occurred to me, if you deploy dragon princes in marching column, does that negate impetuous? Then can march a whopping 24" and free reform on their flank, turn 2 smash their flank to smithereens, unless I'm misunderstanding the rules? If this is a thing it radically changes how cavalry can be used, as you can march so far as to potentially get out of charge arcs, and combo with great eagle redirection, it seems very hard to prevent.

I have been debating this with myself for a long while as well, since it seems to be a loophole. However, I don't think this is the case.

Yes, units in Marching Column formation can't charge (Big Blue Book p101). However, on BBB p119, under "who can charge", it mentions "A unit in Marching Column can declare a charge, but cannot make a charge move." Impetuous only requires that you are able to declare a charge, not that you can actually make that charge. So based on that, I would say that if you are in Marching Column, you have to declare a charge on a 1-3, you just automatically fail the charge.

I'm still not clear on this, and I read it differently, let me know what you think:

1. Marching Column: "Units that are in Marching Column can declare a charge, but cannot make a charge move..."

2. Drilled: "Unless it is fleeing, a Drilled unit may perform a redress the ranks maneuver immediately before moving..."

Here's how I'm reading this:

1. I'm in Marching Column, I declare a charge with a unit that has Drilled;

2. Before I go to move the Charge, I get a decision point, either a) redress the ranks, causing me to fall out of Marching Column formation, or b) do not redress the ranks, retaining my Marching Column formation;

3. If I select B, I am therefore still in Marching Column formation, and cannot complete the charge. If I select A and redress the ranks such that I fall out of Marching Column, I therefor proceed to the "Moving Charges" section;

4. Now that I am no longer in Marching Column formation, the second sentence of Marching Column no longer applies, and I can now move charge based on other formations;


Unless I'm missing something, the way I read this is that you can complete a charge IF 1) you start in Marching Column; AND 2) you readdress your ranks out of Marching Column with Drilled.

Thoughts?

Kind regards,

Axiem

Axiem the logic looks good to me but I’m unclear on the rules for the order of steps in the movement phase. I hope it works, because that would be exciting horsemanship and superbly useful.

Speaking of which, I’ve a rules question for you chaps, if you please, concerning the Handmaiden’s Horn of Isha.

The Horn of Isha is activated in your Command Phase and, if the bearer passes a leadership test, lasts until your next Start of Turn. If it goes off, the bearer character and any unit they have joined gain a “+1 modifier to both their rolls To Hit and their rolls To Wound.”

My question is: would this buff also apply to magic spells cast from the unit, for instance rolls To Wound from hits inflicted by the Ruby Ring of Ruin?

Thanks!

S

[Clockwork]

It just occurred to me, if you deploy dragon princes in marching column, does that negate impetuous? Then can march a whopping 24" and free reform on their flank, turn 2 smash their flank to smithereens, unless I'm misunderstanding the rules? If this is a thing it radically changes how cavalry can be used, as you can march so far as to potentially get out of charge arcs, and combo with great eagle redirection, it seems very hard to prevent.

I have been debating this with myself for a long while as well, since it seems to be a loophole. However, I don't think this is the case.

Yes, units in Marching Column formation can't charge (Big Blue Book p101). However, on BBB p119, under "who can charge", it mentions "A unit in Marching Column can declare a charge, but cannot make a charge move." Impetuous only requires that you are able to declare a charge, not that you can actually make that charge. So based on that, I would say that if you are in Marching Column, you have to declare a charge on a 1-3, you just automatically fail the charge.

I'm still not clear on this, and I read it differently, let me know what you think:

1. Marching Column: "Units that are in Marching Column can declare a charge, but cannot make a charge move..."

2. Drilled: "Unless it is fleeing, a Drilled unit may perform a redress the ranks maneuver immediately before moving..."

Here's how I'm reading this:

1. I'm in Marching Column, I declare a charge with a unit that has Drilled;

2. Before I go to move the Charge, I get a decision point, either a) redress the ranks, causing me to fall out of Marching Column formation, or b) do not redress the ranks, retaining my Marching Column formation;

3. If I select B, I am therefore still in Marching Column formation, and cannot complete the charge. If I select A and redress the ranks such that I fall out of Marching Column, I therefor proceed to the "Moving Charges" section;

4. Now that I am no longer in Marching Column formation, the second sentence of Marching Column no longer applies, and I can now move charge based on other formations;


Unless I'm missing something, the way I read this is that you can complete a charge IF 1) you start in Marching Column; AND 2) you readdress your ranks out of Marching Column with Drilled.

Thoughts?

Kind regards,

Axiem

Wow talk about nostalgia.

There’s a similar issue with Pulled Along where it states “before [the unit] begins its movement.” But the game doesn’t actually define what movement is. Is every move that happens in the Movement phase “movement”, including charge moves? Is declaring a charge “immediately before” movement? Or only movement that happens in the Remaining Moves phase?

[Axiem]

Axiem the logic looks good to me but I’m unclear on the rules for the order of steps in the movement phase. I hope it works, because that would be exciting horsemanship and superbly useful.

Speaking of which, I’ve a rules question for you chaps, if you please, concerning the Handmaiden’s Horn of Isha.

The Horn of Isha is activated in your Command Phase and, if the bearer passes a leadership test, lasts until your next Start of Turn. If it goes off, the bearer character and any unit they have joined gain a “+1 modifier to both their rolls To Hit and their rolls To Wound.”

My question is: would this buff also apply to magic spells cast from the unit, for instance rolls To Wound from hits inflicted by the Ruby Ring of Ruin?

Thanks!

S

I saw this one.

My answer is yes: I've replaced Loremaster's cloak for Ruby Ring for that exact purpose. Does not specify any specific type of attacks.

Kind regards,

Axiem

[Axiem]

The phases of Movement that are relevant (via Quick Reference in the back of the book):

1. Declare Charges and Charge Reactions

2. Charge Moves

3. Compulsory Moves

4. Remaining Moves


It is clear that a move done in the charge phase is still "a move" and not solely "a charge", so references to movement still apply (as do rules that inhibit "movement" such as spells or magic items: these affect "charge moves"). Everything is referred to as a "charge move."

I'm trying to see a way this doesn't work, if someone can find a reference, please let me know.

Kind regards,

Axiem

[TyrrenAzureblade]

The only thing that I can see that might hint at RAI, is Manoeuvering During A Charge on pg. 126 of the BBB. It states:

Unless stated otherwise, a charging unit cannot perform a turn, move backwards, move sideways, redress the ranks or reform manoeuvre during its charge move.

But that begs the questions When does a charge move start? Is declaring a charge part of the charge move?

I watched a video from Mountain Miniatures at the Jan. 20th Warhammer World event that unfortunately is now a Members Only video that implied or directly stated that Drilled cannot be used to reform before a charge. Unfortunately my memory is hazy, so I don't know if they got that directly from a GW team member, event host, or if they arrived at that conclusion on their own from other experiences at the event.

I could see either side of the argument, but I really hope Drilled works to redress before a charge.

[Prince of Spires]

I say that it does. The reason for that is that the drilled move specifically mentions not being allowed to redress the ranks while fleeing. That shows that it can be used in all movement phases, not just compulsory moves. Otherwise they would have simply said "a free redress during your compulsory moves phase". You're allowed no normal maneuvers while fleeing (even less then while charging), so if you'd only be allowed to free redress if you would be allowed a normal one, then there would be no reason to single out fleeing as when you're not allowed to do so.

[Axiem]

That’s how I read it as well.

There’s also the point that if they didn’t want it, they could have said ‘you cannot declare a charge in Marching Columns.’

This seems intended?

Kind regards,

Axiem

[anorexia]

===
1350 [1348 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, High Elf Realms, High Elf Realms
===

++ Characters [590 pts] ++

Dragon Mage [355 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Light armour
- Upgrade to Level 2
- Sun Dragon
- Seed of Rebirth
- Talisman of Protection
- Battle Magic

Mage [140 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Upgrade to Level 2
- On foot
- Lore Familiar
- High Magic

Handmaiden of the Everqueen [95 pts]
- Handmaiden's Spear
- Light armour
- Horn of Isha
- Charmed Shield

++ Core Units [347 pts] ++

21 Sisters of Avelorn [347 pts]
- Bows of Avelorn
- Light armour
- High Sister
- The Loremaster's Cloak

++ Special Units [81 pts] ++

5 Shadow Warriors [81 pts]
- Longbow
- Light armour
- Chariot Runners (0-1 unit)
- Shadow Walker

++ Rare Units [330 pts] ++

Lion Chariot of Chrace [125 pts]
- Chracian Great Blade

Frostheart Phoenix [205 pts]
- Full plate armor

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

Im playing saturday vs empire.
mage and handmaiden go to sisters. Walk between worlds is cast every turn. I still dont know what to pick on my dragonmage. Battle magic has good sig spell, But elementalism has plague of rust and i can swap 1 spell for vauls unmaking.
Any suggestions?

edit: we play with no lords. coz low points roster

[TyrrenAzureblade]

That’s how I read it as well.

There’s also the point that if they didn’t want it, they could have said ‘you cannot declare a charge in Marching Columns.’

This seems intended?

Kind regards,

Axiem

Yeah, could very well be. The more and more I read the books, and players' interpretations, the more I feel like the books were, despite being in development for years, probably rushed, or at least not well edited/proofread. I hope they do FAQs and Errata more frequently than the biannual updates they have planned. In some cases having the book has provoked more questions than it clarified.

[Tethlis]

There's a lot of rules that seem utterly pointless too. Ithilmar Weapons, Gromril Weapons, Murderous, all these abilities that only apply to basic hand weapons on units that will never, ever, use or benefit from them.

[Ielthan]

There's a lot of rules that seem utterly pointless too. Ithilmar Weapons, Gromril Weapons, Murderous, all these abilities that only apply to basic hand weapons on units that will never, ever, use or benefit from them.

Tbf we have some ithilmar weapons on units that will use them, just they won't make much difference lol. Don't ironbreakers have gromril weapons? Murderous is good on witch elves I guess. I see your point though, seems odd to make faction specific rules that barely effect the factions. Perhaps we'll get new units that make more use of them. Given basically our whole army has plastic models, will be interesting to see what new models they release for us too.

[NHB]

Thoughts on the "Shadow Prince"?

Shadow Prince [254 pts]
- Hand Weapon
- Great Weapon
- Reaver Bow
- Light Armour
- Armour of Silvered Steel
- Seed of Rebirth
- Shadow Stalker

the Armour should be legal, right?
Shadow Stalker: cannot have heavy armour or full plate armour Armour of Silvered Steel is not classified as heavy or full plate. Armour of Caledor or Armour of Destiny is classified as such.

He will run with his Shadow Boys.

10x Shadow Warriors [181 pts]
- Hand Weapon
- Long Bow
- Light Armour
- Shadow Walker with Loremaster's Cloak
- Feigned Flight

With Fire & Flee, Feigned Fleight, Evasive, Move Through Cover, Scouts, Skirmishers, Veteran and most juicy: 360° vision these guys will be super annoying to the opponent.

4 BS7 S5 Armour Bane (1), Magical Shots
9 BS5 S3 Armour Bane (1) + 1 BS6

Either as a Fire & Flee Reaction with Auto Rally or as Stand and Shoot - Casualties counting towards combat res.
In the latter case
4 WS7 S6 AP-2 with Armour Bane(1) @I7
10 WS5 S3 re-rolling 1s to hit @I6

In the shooting Phase this of course also outputs the above figures.

In terms of survivability: The unit should always try to operate on the flanks and around cover for a minimum -2 to hit with shooting. The Prince itself can't be targeted until 6 wounds are bled off the unit and there is also Look out sir. The Cloak helps with a 4++ against Magic Missiles. Plus the opponents mage needs to actually divert to have you in the front arc and be in range.

For [435 pts] that is quite an investment but should really occupy the oponent on a denied flank. Throw in Chariot Runners and a Lion Chariot for [10 + 125 pts] and that side of the table starts looking quite intimidating. Maybe better placed in a 2.500 - 3.000 pts game.

Alternative could be a low cost Suicide Squad / Reaver Bow Delivery Squad

Shadow Noble [136 pts]
- Light Armour
- Shield
- Great Weapon
- Reaver Bow

5x Shadow Warriors [75 pts]
- Hand Weapon
- Long Bow
- Light Armour
- Feigned Flight

for [211 pts]

[NHB]

There's a lot of rules that seem utterly pointless too. Ithilmar Weapons, Gromril Weapons, Murderous, all these abilities that only apply to basic hand weapons on units that will never, ever, use or benefit from them.

- Silver Helms and Dragon Princes on the turn after the charge (Asur forbid)
- Same for Tiranoc and Skycutter
- Shadow Warriors, Sisters and Archers always

With the new to-hit chart with WS4 that can actually make a big difference, hitting normal WS3 opponents on a 3+ with a re-roll 1s and WS2 opponents with a 2+ and re-roll.

[Giladis]

Yeah, could very well be. The more and more I read the books, and players' interpretations, the more I feel like the books were, despite being in development for years, probably rushed, or at least not well edited/proofread. I hope they do FAQs and Errata more frequently than the biannual updates they have planned. In some cases having the book has provoked more questions than it clarified.

Experience tells me it is just the way GW writes rules. The books could have been in development for another 5 years and I doubt the language of the rules would be significantly different.

[Ielthan]

Yeah, could very well be. The more and more I read the books, and players' interpretations, the more I feel like the books were, despite being in development for years, probably rushed, or at least not well edited/proofread. I hope they do FAQs and Errata more frequently than the biannual updates they have planned. In some cases having the book has provoked more questions than it clarified.

Experience tells me it is just the way GW writes rules. The books could have been in development for another 5 years and I doubt the language of the rules would be significantly different.

I think best not to worry about it, casual games you can dice anything you can't agree on, tournament scene will iron out the kinks fairly quickly. GW have already announced warhammer world tournaments for The Old World.

[Elaithnir]

I've been toying with the idea of sticking a mage with shadow warriors and having them pop out in the backfield and be a nuisance. Trying it tomorrow.
Also. The 2+/5++/5++ prince is doable. Full plate, dragon helm, shield, talisman of protection, seed of rebirth, mounted on an eagle. Should be fun.

[Ielthan]

I've been toying with the idea of sticking a mage with shadow warriors and having them pop out in the backfield and be a nuisance. Trying it tomorrow.
Also. The 2+/5++/5++ prince is doable. Full plate, dragon helm, shield, talisman of protection, seed of rebirth, mounted on an eagle. Should be fun.

Can you have both a ward save and regen save now? or is it still can only roll 2 saves?

That prince would be annoying, but would he really do much other than hunt wizards and war machines? Max cool points though lol.

[Morgen]

You can have all three save types, but regen saved wounds still add to combat resolution which is interesting.

[Ielthan]

You can have all three save types, but regen saved wounds still add to combat resolution which is interesting.

Interesting, will be tricky to keep track of in the heat of battle.

[Seredain]

Axiem the logic looks good to me but I’m unclear on the rules for the order of steps in the movement phase. I hope it works, because that would be exciting horsemanship and superbly useful.

Speaking of which, I’ve a rules question for you chaps, if you please, concerning the Handmaiden’s Horn of Isha.

The Horn of Isha is activated in your Command Phase and, if the bearer passes a leadership test, lasts until your next Start of Turn. If it goes off, the bearer character and any unit they have joined gain a “+1 modifier to both their rolls To Hit and their rolls To Wound.”

My question is: would this buff also apply to magic spells cast from the unit, for instance rolls To Wound from hits inflicted by the Ruby Ring of Ruin?

Thanks!

S

I saw this one.

My answer is yes: I've replaced Loremaster's cloak for Ruby Ring for that exact purpose. Does not specify any specific type of attacks.

Kind regards,

Axiem

Thanks Axiem. That's another big win for the handmaiden and her sisters! I'm looking at a herohammer 2.5K build at the moment which has room for the Loremaster's Cloak and Horn of Isha on the handmaiden general, with a core of 23 sisters carrying the Ruby Ring. I'm just toying with the idea of whether lion chariots, or a frostheart + bolt thrower, would make a nice substitute for 28 seaguard.

Another Rules Q if I may: does Armour Bane stack? For instance, a unit of longbows (AB 1) with the Razor Standard (AB 2) rolls a 6 to wound. Is the shot AP -2 or AP-3?

Thanks again!

S

[Giladis]

Another Rules Q if I may: does Armour Bane stack? For instance, a unit of longbows (AB 1) with the Razor Standard (AB 2) rolls a 6 to wound. Is the shot AP -2 or AP-3?

Yes. All USR stack unless explicitly stated otherwise. E.g. Magic Resistance.

[Seredain]

The only thing that I can see that might hint at RAI, is Manoeuvering During A Charge on pg. 126 of the BBB. It states:

Unless stated otherwise, a charging unit cannot perform a turn, move backwards, move sideways, redress the ranks or reform manoeuvre during its charge move.

But that begs the questions When does a charge move start? Is declaring a charge part of the charge move?

I watched a video from Mountain Miniatures at the Jan. 20th Warhammer World event that unfortunately is now a Members Only video that implied or directly stated that Drilled cannot be used to reform before a charge. Unfortunately my memory is hazy, so I don't know if they got that directly from a GW team member, event host, or if they arrived at that conclusion on their own from other experiences at the event.

I could see either side of the argument, but I really hope Drilled works to redress before a charge.

I think the important caveat here is "Unless stated otherwise...". Does anyone have the exact wording for the Drilled special rule to hand? We need that, hoping that it gives itself some specific place in the sequence, and then maybe pair that wording with any ruling the book provides on whether the Player can determine the order of simultaneous events on their own turn.

Another Rules Q if I may: does Armour Bane stack? For instance, a unit of longbows (AB 1) with the Razor Standard (AB 2) rolls a 6 to wound. Is the shot AP -2 or AP-3?

Yes. All USR stack unless explicitly stated otherwise. E.g. Magic Resistance.

Great stuff thanks Giladis.

[NHB]

The only thing that I can see that might hint at RAI, is Manoeuvering During A Charge on pg. 126 of the BBB. It states:

Unless stated otherwise, a charging unit cannot perform a turn, move backwards, move sideways, redress the ranks or reform manoeuvre during its charge move.

But that begs the questions When does a charge move start? Is declaring a charge part of the charge move?

I watched a video from Mountain Miniatures at the Jan. 20th Warhammer World event that unfortunately is now a Members Only video that implied or directly stated that Drilled cannot be used to reform before a charge. Unfortunately my memory is hazy, so I don't know if they got that directly from a GW team member, event host, or if they arrived at that conclusion on their own from other experiences at the event.

I could see either side of the argument, but I really hope Drilled works to redress before a charge.

I think the important caveat here is "Unless stated otherwise...". Does anyone have the exact wording for the Drilled special rule to hand? We need that, hoping that it gives itself some specific place in the sequence, and then maybe pair that wording with any ruling the book provides on whether the Player can determine the order of simultaneous events on their own turn.

Another Rules Q if I may: does Armour Bane stack? For instance, a unit of longbows (AB 1) with the Razor Standard (AB 2) rolls a 6 to wound. Is the shot AP -2 or AP-3?

Yes. All USR stack unless explicitly stated otherwise. E.g. Magic Resistance.

Great stuff thanks Giladis.

Drilled: Unless it is fleeing, a Drilled unit may perform a redress the ranks manoeuvre immediately before moving. Once this manoeuvre is complete, the unit moves as normal. In addition, a Drilled unit can march whilst within 8" of an enemy unit without first having to make a Leadership test. Note that any character that joins a unit that is Drilled is considered to be Drilled as well.

[NHB]

Declaring a charge is not moving.
Making the charge move is moving.
Immediately before moving would be before the charge move.
Not FAQing that on FAQ 1.0 is not a smart move
This must have come up in playtesting....

A 10 unit 3x3+1 unit only needs one Wound taken off to no longer be in marching column. 10 unit+ (2 characters) 3x4 should be better.
10 unit 2x5 can still be redressed to 7 wide (4 extra attacks likely to be more important than 1 rank Combat Res)
10+2 characters can be redressed to 6 wide for 1 rank bonus or 4x3 for 2 rank bonus (shifting the mage into rank 2 btw...)

Highly complex discussion even regardless of the impetuous topic.

[Seredain]

Thanks NHB.

I think it works. The charge rule says you are not allowed to redress the ranks (inter alia) "during the charge move". Drilled specifies that the redress takes place "immediately before moving" and the unit may then "move as normal" (NB not restricted to remaining moves).

The Drilled unit may therefore declare a charge, redress the ranks "immediately before" making its charge move, and then make its charge move "as normal". Is my reading.

[Prince of Spires]

The only thing that I can see that might hint at RAI, is Manoeuvering During A Charge on pg. 126 of the BBB. It states:

Unless stated otherwise, a charging unit cannot perform a turn, move backwards, move sideways, redress the ranks or reform manoeuvre during its charge move.

But that begs the questions When does a charge move start? Is declaring a charge part of the charge move?

I watched a video from Mountain Miniatures at the Jan. 20th Warhammer World event that unfortunately is now a Members Only video that implied or directly stated that Drilled cannot be used to reform before a charge. Unfortunately my memory is hazy, so I don't know if they got that directly from a GW team member, event host, or if they arrived at that conclusion on their own from other experiences at the event.

I think the important caveat here is "Unless stated otherwise...". Does anyone have the exact wording for the Drilled special rule to hand? We need that, hoping that it gives itself some specific place in the sequence, and then maybe pair that wording with any ruling the book provides on whether the Player can determine the order of simultaneous events on their own turn.

Not FAQing that on FAQ 1.0 is not a smart move
This must have come up in playtesting....

I don't really see the issue with it, unless they don't want Drilled to be useable before a charge. A charge is a move. Before you move, if you have Drilled, you can redress the ranks for free. Drilled makes 1 exception, and that is if you make a flee move, you can't use Drilled. Sounds pretty simple and straightforward to me.

When charging it mentions that you can have a rule which allows you a maneuvre other than a wheel (otherwise they wouldn't have added the "unless otherwise stated" part. They would have simply said "no other maneuvres than wheel"). Drilled gives one such exceptions to that rule.

As far as some Youtubers doing it differently, well, they know the rules as well as we do. So unless they have a different reading, they simply read it wrong (it's easy to miss). And in the past at least, GW staff tended to be less informed about rules and their complex interactions than most players. So I put little confidence in their opinion.

[NHB]

Thanks NHB.

I think it works. The charge rule says you are not allowed to redress the ranks (inter alia) "during the charge move". Drilled specifies that the redress takes place "immediately before moving" and the unit may then "move as normal" (NB not restricted to remaining moves).

The Drilled unit may therefore declare a charge, redress the ranks "immediately before" making its charge move, and then make its charge move "as normal". Is my reading.

But that also again makes the marching column deployment vulnerable to Impetuous. If it may declare, it must declare if the roll is failed. Then it doesn't matter much, you still need to eagle it or reaver it. As I thought the only reason for deploying in Marching Column was, if you don't get turn 1 or if Vanguards are shoved in your face that you don't want to charge (especially if you have to move the full 2D6 on a pursuit as mentioned in another comment).

Yeah. It's a whole mess overall. But maybe in the end it is fine to just let them listen to the fire in their hearts and smash everything to bits. Who dares charging a Counter Charge DP unit that has Fury of Khaine up.... Throw in a Potion of Strength on the Drakemaster for the lols.