Are Sea Helms any good without Skycutters?

[Scalenex1]

I only play High Elves rarely. I always kind of wanted to make Phoenix Guard work.

Sea Helms are a neat idea but they seem to fail in implantation. In theory I can see a benefit to fielding Sea Guard in wide formation to get lots of shots and then condense into deep ranks when you are charged. It doesn't seem worth it to me. You lose your Stand and Shoot when you use the special reform. Since High Elves can shoot in three ranks, and then you get volley fire, I think you'll get about as many shots off either way. Also Lothern Sea Helms seem overpriced. They cost 30 more points then Nobles and only get 2 attacks. Also, isn't giving a nonmounted character a spear a bad thing? I think I'd rather spend the points I'd spend on a Sea Helm on more Sea Guard.

[rothgar13]

Put him in a White Lion Horde, never get flank- or rear- charged again! (Provided you're not engaged on multiple fronts)

[Palinux]

Put him on the shelve, and never spend points on an overpriced character again

[Prince of Spires]

If you could make the reform as a charge reaction and use it together with a S&S then he would be worth his points. If he came with an inbuilt Moranions Wayshard for LSG he would be worth his points.

As he is now, he is too expensive for what he does and his special rules are more a gimmick then anything else.

Then again, I'm also not realy convinced he's worth it in a skycutter either. I can see that work in either a chariot heavy list or very much in a support role. But I'm not sure putting a BSB in a flying chariot is a good idea.

Rod

[rothgar13]

It's not. If you don't use it for the niche application I described above, just bring a Noble instead.

[Wicksi]

I was devicing a new list today (I kinda like making new ones and se what you end up with in this book) and I was thinking about a Sea Helm for my Phoenix guards mostly because he is cool and that you can be sort of reckless with the PGuards with the reform.

But what really buggs me with him isnt the fact that he is slightly overpriced (I dare say he is like 10points to much tbh) but the fact that he cant choose any Mundane equipment whatsoever, not even a Halberd. This means that if you want him to hit reasonable hard (given he only got 2attacks) you need to either mount him up on the chariot or take magic equipment if you take the later option he wont have any save at all since you just spent that lowly 50pts for a magic weapon.

So my biggest objektion with the Sea helm is, why the hell cant he take any mundane equipment?

[rothgar13]

The fear was likely that he would invalidate the Noble if that were the case. It's the same for the Loremaster and the Anointed v. the Prince.

[Siegfried VII]

The true value of naval discipline in my opinion lies in denying the enemy the flank advantage versus our precious elite infantry imo. Especially on the Sword Masters and the Phoenix Guard it can work miracles. White Lions are stubborn so it does not help that much but even then why grant the opponent a combat round with an advantage on you?

That said he is overpriced and I find the fact he and the handmaiden character have only two attacks on their profiles really pathetic...

[THRILLHELM]

To be fair to the hand maiden her role doesn't conflict with the noble. She's there to carry the reaver bow (or the horn in alarielle lists) and boost sisters. Whereas the Seahelm really is an alternate noble. I can only see his real use in a skycutter and then only because of the ward save.

[Ben E. Violent]

I might make him my Wayshard wearer, as I could see myself bringing in a unit of spears from the back and making my placement decisions not from where I could make the best use but asking myself "Where will I not get flanked from AND THEN make the best use?" Taking him alleviates me of that for only 30 points more.

You'll have ranks against him for sure unless he turns two units. You're flipping the script on him two turns on a row as in the first turn, he'll say "Well, nuts to that!" and turn a unit towards the spears. There will be a second time where he will say "Well, poop" when he realizes you can attack him back with your full ranks no matter how he comes at you unless he turns two units at you. So, TWO TURNS where at the very least a fairly sized block has to turn at you and then charge. Or multiple units. Leaving you free to act in the main battlefield away from that action.

[Beragon]

I find the Sea Helm's Naval Discipline ability almost useless. At a glance, he seems perfect to lead a unit of Lothern Sea Guard (it even says so in their fluff text), as you could declare a Stand & Shoot Charge reaction in a formation favorable to shooting, and then attempt to reform into a formation favorable to close combat...

But you can't use his ability if you declare a Stand & Shoot, which I find inexplicable.