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High Elves in challenges

Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 5:01 pm
by taldarinzphoenix
Do you think the Anointed of Asuryan is our best “challenge accepter”? How would you build a High elf challenge acceptor? I need a character that can out combat a Vampire counts Blender lord. Much of the power of a blender lord comes from: always strikes first, a magic weapon, and the ability “red fury” where hits become more hits. You can usually count on the vampire either using the ogre blade for +2 strength or sword of strife for +2 attacks. I would also bet on a 4+ save from armor of destiny perhaps.

I have a couple ideas to combat a blender lord:
Anointed with Fencers blades and Glittering scales. Maybe a potion of strength or other tricksters shard? I think Other tricksters shard is a good investment for round after round damage multiplier. At WS 7 (maybe 9 with dread knight) the vamp lord is now hitting on 5s, and not rerolling. Then has to wounding on 2s, and then has to get through a 4+ ward save. On average the Vamp will deal roughly 1.15 wounds a round. If i manage to tag him With iceshard blizzard, that number is cut in half…. But lets not take magic into account. I can survive for roughly 3ish combat rounds with this setup.
In those 3 turns, Anointed will deal like… maybe 0.1 damage per round, so this build would be intended to delay the vampire while my unit kills their unit. (Id probably put it in swordmasters)

Alternatively, I could go more offensively, with something like ogre blade or even giant blade. Maybe still with other tricksters shard. This set up would average more like… 0.75 wounds a round, but will only survive maybe 2 rounds of combat, probably not the best way to go here.

Even further Alternatively, I could run a Prince in a unit with the Banner of the world dragon. Maybe with armor of silvered steel, ogre blade and other tricksters shard if on foot. Maybe in white lions for Ld10 stubborn.

What do you think?

Re: High Elves in challenges

Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 9:57 am
by Prince of Spires
A good thing to keep in mind is that ASF VS ASF = everyone goes at the same time without rerolls, regardless of Initiative values. Which means that all High Elf characters (without Great Weapons) go at the same time as the blender lord and neither gets any rerolls from ASF.

If you want to go the special character route, then Tyrion works. He's basically a dragon without flying. Of course, you could also take a dragon lord and see how that does. But I digress. Back to characters on foot. Don't discount the humble unit champion as challenger (or accepter). They take the lord out of the real combat for a turn after all.

I think fencers blades are a waste. WS 10 gives you very little that WS7 does not. A WS7 lord will always hit you on 4+ at the worst (You need WS4 to get to 5+). What's more, you're only S5. Adding more S will give a larger benefit, since it both improves your to-hit roll and reduces armor.

I think I perhaps would go for:
Giant blade, enchanted shield (or charmed shield, depending on if the vampire likes bringing +2S or +2 attacks), Golden crown, other trickster's shard.

This gives you S7, 3+ armor save, 4+ ward, Magic resistence (2), discound first wound, opponent rerolls ward saves.

This should get you about 1 wound per round of combat (0,9 if my math and guesses for the vampire's equipment are correct). The vampire lord performs about equal (getting 0,97 wounds per round vs 0,94). Funny thing is that +2S and +2A perform equal for him here, assuming the 3+ armour save. And since you discount the first wound, you should come out slightly ahead, though it very much depends on your rolls at that point. But statistically (if my math is correct), the annointed kills him more often than dies to him. Of course, if you chuck in the Banner of the World Dragon, then the math changes completely and he's basically slapping you with a wet newspaper...

If you do bring the BOTWD then a prince might be a better choice, since you're no longer dependent on the innate 4+ ward save. In that case I would probably take the same equipment as the Annointed and give him Dragon Armor + charmed shield or Heavy armor, dragon helm, shield (which is cheaper than Dragon armor + Enchanted shield). With the extra attack, the prince deals 1,25 wounds per round.

Edited to add: while you don't want to rely on outside help, if you can get the Frostheart Phoenix into the same fight (assuming you bring it of course), then you're laughing. With his ASF negated, you get the ASF rerolls, and you go up to 1,4 wound for the annointed and 1,9 for the prince.

Re: High Elves in challenges

Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 4:56 pm
by taldarinzphoenix
This is an excellent response, exactly what I am looking for. I always bring either a frost phoenix or caradryan, its my favorite model. I like the idea of using a better armor save to protect against the vamp, my opponent does frequently bring the +2 attacks sword bc he knows I play High elves and we commonly only have a 5+ AS. Enchanted shield, giant blade, Other tricksters. Going down that route, I could also consider Ogre blade, armor of silvered steel and OTS…. Ill do the maTh on that as well

Re: High Elves in challenges

Posted: Sat May 13, 2023 8:04 pm
by SpellArcher
I may have missed it but is the fact that a Vamp Lord often carries the Other Trickster's Shard factored in here? Also, is he on foot or mounted (and hence likely rocking a 1+ AS).

In general I feel Star Dragon works best. World Dragon also, unless your opponent tailors and leaves his magic sword at home.

Re: High Elves in challenges

Posted: Fri May 19, 2023 2:52 pm
by Prince of Spires
SpellArcher wrote: Sat May 13, 2023 8:04 pm I may have missed it but is the fact that a Vamp Lord often carries the Other Trickster's Shard factored in here? Also, is he on foot or mounted (and hence likely rocking a 1+ AS).
I probably didn't. And I've probably made some other maths mistake in there as well. It happens... Though, it will only change the math a bit, and keep it risky for the vampire. You don't want a 1-in-3 chance of your general dying if you can help it. Even more if you keep him locked in combat for 2 turns while doing so.

Re: High Elves in challenges

Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 8:38 pm
by Minion X
While I'm a bit late to the party, for future users who might read this I would add that against a Vampire Lord specifically, you may be better off with the Obsidian Blade or the Sword of Anti-Heroes in case the vampire has the Nightshroud, which negates the Strength bonus from weapons like Giant Blade. A Vampire with the Nightshroud will have to forego either a good ward save or a good magic weapon, or may forego Always Strikes First by taking a great weapon, in which case they can have a decent ward save as well.