Warhammer Armies Project: a search for experience.

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Aerendar Valandil
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Warhammer Armies Project: a search for experience.

#1 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

Hi all,

I have been trying out WAP the last year/months, and at my Amsterdam club and around there are several players who play WAP regularly of ar trying it out. For most, the experienze is rewarding or at least sparking interest for more. In our experience, the learning curve of WAP is relatively steep. There are many small changes from other ediions, and there are several bigger changes. One player finds WAP to intricate and returns tot Warhammer Reanaissance, a development of 4th/5th-ed. that is simpler.

However, I think it is a very good set of rules, with only the caveat that there are 'tricks' possible: very strong combinations of troops and rules that you only know if you play regularly and 'know your armybook',and are difficult to counter if you do not know your opponent's. Good listbuilding can really give you an advantage. I may have been guilty of his frustration as I start learning the merits of my HE in this edition.

I have been playing Nippon, Kislev, VC's, Dark Elves, Daemons and Beastmen. I heve struggled with the latter two.

Usually my army is built around a core of Seaguards, I commonly take some Swordmasters and some Silver Helms, and I find it difficult NOT to build on magic. I never leave home without a platoon of Shadow Warriors, and laterly I have seen the merits of teh Merwyrm and our lowly Warriors.

But I'm still learning. Tomorrow I will field a dragon for the first time!

M.

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Re: Warhammer Armies Project: a search for experience.

#2 Post by MasterOfNone »

That's exciting!
I wish I knew people around me willing to play (preferably if of a certain age...). Difficult if like me one refuses to use Facebook.
Do keep us posted on how it goes.
Some discussion of the differences, merits and demerits compared to other editions would be very nice.
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Re: Warhammer Armies Project: a search for experience.

#3 Post by Ramesesis »

I have tried out WAP and it does indeed look like a good set of rules.
I have only played one game so far but it felt good.

What struck both me and my friend was how lethal archery had become. My small unit of Sisters of Avelorn schyted down skellies left and right.

Another thing was the impact hits cavalry caused which to both the me and my friends suprise evaporated a skeleton archer unit on the charge.
Flyers are less mobile now. No 20 inch move, which made my eagle very sad.

Next game in two weeks.

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Re: Warhammer Armies Project: a search for experience.

#4 Post by Ramesesis »

I have one question and that is your preferred size of different units, Aerendar.
For example what is a reasonable size for a Sea Guard unit?

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Re: Warhammer Armies Project: a search for experience.

#5 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

Seaguards I field usually 25 (or slightly smaller if I plan characters in there). As it is prohibited to have a deeper unit that its breadth, ideal are numbers as 25, 36, 49 (5x5, 6x6, 7x7). Seaguards fight in three ranks, so between 20 (4x5) and 25 (5x5) are best I think. I usually form two ranks deep on deploymant so that they can put out 40/50 shots at 4+ (-1 for multiple shots). If charged they can reform (although usually they are by then depleted in such a way that the spears only have effect if charged by cavalry).

I tryd out spearelves this saturday in a unit of 36 (icl characters) as they can fight in two extra ranks (one for the spear, one as one of their abilities). ik wasn't completely overwhelmed, but they reached the other side!).

Archery is lethal, but good armour takes out alot. And especially infantry with shields do better agains archery: our spears have a 3+ AS from the front!

m.
Last edited by Aerendar Valandil on Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Warhammer Armies Project: a search for experience.

#6 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

Some more info: I field PG's in blocks, I have 20, want to go to 25.

Swordmasters 10 of 15

SH 5 or 10, tried DP's also in 10. You lse a few attacks, but they have some staying power.

I seldom use reavers, if I do in 5's.

SW: 5's. I tend to give them double weapons.

Sisters 10.

I like the WL models, but I have ahad only one battle in which they really were of use, and that was because of their forest strider and their 'always strike last' special ability. They are usually dead or they are not where their high strengt attacks and anti-monster-attaks counted.

I'really like the merwyrm.

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Re: Warhammer Armies Project: a search for experience.

#7 Post by Prince of Spires »

I think it's the nature of the game that listbuilding matters a lot. It's the same for any other tabletop wargame, but also things like Magic the Gathering. There is always stuff that works better either because it's better (for the points) or because it gives more synergy. You only really get to know that by playing a lot and gaining an understanding of your army and the game.

It then very much depends on playing the same type of game as your opponent. If you want a die-hard game with the toughest list you can find, while your opponent is only just learning the game or just wants a casual game, then chances are neither of you will have a fun game.
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#8 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

True in general. Warhammer Renaissance is a simpler version and has that less.

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#9 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

Interesting battle yesterday against Ogres. I'm still not convinced of our spearmen, I had a big unit, but they had a 1000 point deathstar unit against them, so it wasn't that surprising they ran. My swordmasters did well, but did roll a 5 to stand, so that was in result a bit flattering. White Lions did very well with several sixes. I seldom have seen them doing really well, but against Ogres they are very dangerous.

I did have a bit of luck though. The deathstar unit was still dangerous, but chose to flee to lure in my remainig troops. Thet was not a good guess, because with swiftstride and a high roll they ran of the table in the rally phase. The other remaining unit, that still was dangerously large as well agains my depleted units, ran of the table as well.

I think my griffon prince would first have looked around surprised first, and then let go a loud sigh of relief.

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#10 Post by Ramesesis »

So I just fought a 2000 point battle against my friends VC and while I lost in the end it was still not a given. I did a huge mistake in the beginning charging his generals ghoul horde with my small unit of Silver Helms.

I had Strider thanks to magical banner but missed the curcial detail that they stod behind a fence. I saw only weathfields...
Then my dicerolling was bad. Worst of all I managed two miscast with the same Mage that died after the second, taking my Annulian crystal with him.

My second mage was a Mistweaver and she did not do much. That said, being able to cast remain in play buffs making my units harder to hit probably did help out overall. But a level 1 might have been enough.

My general was a noble on foot with a polearm leading the spears. He did a wound on or two on the crypt horrors that charged his spears together with the Warghulf.

Now the mean thing was that the four spearelves that could strike the Warghulf almost killed it!
It already had a wound and the spears landed 3 hits and did 3 wounds. Sadly he regenend all of them.
But the spears did serious pain to the Crypt horrors, slaying 1 outright! Having +1 strength when charged and striking with four ranks was mean. He killed many spears but only won with 1 and thanks to my BSB being close i passed the test.

My White lions had to weather a flank attack by ghouls but sent them packing and now charged the Warghulf and landed a heroic killing blow. The last crypt ghoul fler.

I got overconfident and charged a huge zombieunit with a corpsecart with my spears. Bloody corpsecart. They lost and ran together with my general.

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#11 Post by Ramesesis »

But lets make some observations.

Both our plans went out of the window since we rolled dawn attack. I got slightly better positioning, but still ended up with my strongest unit on the wrong side.

One of my best units were my Sisters of Avelorn. They made him hold back his wraith and banshee for the fear of their magical shooting and had made him skip other etherals altogether since he was certain that I would bring them!
They took a wound of the Warghulf, shaved of some ghouls, took care of a unit of 10 zombies that were drawn up behind the lines and annihilated a batswarm. All for the loss of two of their number.
190 points well spent.

The warriors with medium armour and shield were ok, but I think I will go for 10 man units with two hand weapons and skirmish in the future.

The spears were good. Sure, they are strongest on the defence but I feel they are solid. 20 str4 attacks against charges from the front is not to be scoffed at!

I just wish I had skipped Amulet of Light and Armour of Silvered steel on my noble who was the general and gave him Crown of Command instead that weay they would not have run in the end.

The White lions did well this time. I took only 14 so they formed up in three ranks together with my BSB. And they did give the Wargulf a heroic killing blow. That alone made my day.

The lion chariot went down against some ghouls that flanked it after it had annihiated some Dire wolves. It survived the first round of combat and reformed so the lions could fight aswell. But not enough ghouls died and they in turn took down the last two wounds.
However, once again it was stubborn and cause fear so it had no problem with it. And it hits like a brick. It needs to be used wisely but so does all our units.

I wonder how it would be as a character mount. 4+ward would not be bad.

I totally forgot Elven grace. Need to remember it.

Among the magical items I brought, the Annulian Crystal did have an impact. Worth bringing. Just do not let your mage miscast, especially not twice!

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Re: Warhammer Armies Project: a search for experience.

#12 Post by SpellArcher »

Aerendar Valandil wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 9:59 am
If charged they can reform (although usually they are by then depleted in such a way that the spears only have effect if charged by cavalry).
Given that models tend to die more quickly in 8th Edition than previous editions, how does WAP compare Aerendar? Is it even more lethal?

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#13 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

SpellArcher wrote:
Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:11 am
Given that models tend to die more quickly in 8th Edition than previous editions, how does WAP compare Aerendar? Is it even more lethal?
The elves are a dying race .... and they show it every time.

I haven't played 8th much (perhaps once), but it may be comparable. There is no horde rule and armour is better, but bowfire can be devastating. Various investments in anti-magic and magic, buffs and debuffs can be influential both ways.

At least one unt of my brave high elves is eliminated before it can do anything.

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#14 Post by Ramesesis »

Indeed, WAP is lethal. The positive side is that our archers actually do damage. And I would never march out without my 10 Sisters of Avelorn.

A positive thing is that shields get one extra armour against missile fire from the front so our spears have a +3 armour save against missiles. Which is better than any of our elite infantry units in that regard.

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#15 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

Yes, I'm still not convinced of our spears, but our seaguards are a very nice unit: well armoured, and capable of doing damage both from an distance and if charged.

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#16 Post by Ramesesis »

I guess I am just partial in regards to our spears. I just like the pike phalanx feel they have. The Sea guard is nice and I might field 20 of them next time

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#17 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

I field them 25 at least. Spears 36.

You're right, I want to like them, and I will keep trying to field a big unit of them.

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#18 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

Interesting battle agains Skaven, relatively narrow loss. My axewielders (with swiftstride) did very well, my lord on Griffon OK, my two lvl-2 mages died in the midlle of the battle, Swordmasters did OK (but were thrashed by magic), as did my SH. My two-wepon-warriors did a very effective rearcharge (with 6). I'm still not convinced if a fighty hero on a big beast is equally effective as a mage lord. You really, really need the magic, because we die so easily through spell effects! Spells are so dangerous!

Next week agains Deamons (two losses in the pocket), a challenge!

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#19 Post by Ramesesis »

Interesting stuff. Also makes me think my 10 strong warrior unit with two hand weapons was a good investment.

Also, having mages dying sucks. Last game my lv2 with High magic and Annulian crystal dying from two miscast the turn after one another riped the heart out of my magical defence.
My lv2 Mistweaver could do little against the VC magic after that.

Talking about Mistweavers I found her reasonaby useful. Since she also benefits from the +1 to dispell she can defend and The writhing mist can be useful. -1 for the enemies to hit helps keeping our fragile elves alive

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#20 Post by Ramesesis »

Has anyone tried the loremaster and how did it go? I only tried him once with mixed result.
The fact that he can fight and have a wide range of spells to use makes for some nice suprises

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#21 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

I did, two or three times. He is quite good, but once in combat he can only cast hexes and augments so you may need another caster o use all the dice.

Interesting, and goof for elves because you can combine functions.

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#22 Post by Ramesesis »

I think you need a lv2 with high magic and Annulian crystal as backseat magican to support the loremaster.
And then think of how you kit him out.

I have two kitbashed loremasters and I am considering a third..

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#23 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

General question: how to keep your wizards alive?

Related question: how can the elves be a magic race if mages get killed off so quick?

Yes, this is a complaint.

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#24 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

Ouch, that was a sad day for the Elves.

Defeated by Tzeentch demons. I made serious mistakes, but I fear that I don't have an answer to that list.

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#25 Post by Ramesesis »

Ah, sorry to hear that!

I guess Tzeentch daemons might be able to out-magic even High elves.

As for keeping wizards alive I try to keep them close to my units or behind the lines. I like magic that boost my units.
But last game I rolled two miscasts with the same lv2 mage and gone he was.

That is a huge reason I do not like to field archmages and like spell that I can cast reliably with two or three dice.
If I field an archmage I WILL take the Staff of Solidity.
Infact, I think I that even with two lv2 mages I will have one with Annulian crystal and the other with Staff of Solidity. Focus on casting low level buffs and reducing the effectiveness of enemy magic.

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#26 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

Played a small battle against O&G, Blood&Glory.

Nice, funny battle, we had to stop before the final combat which would decide the battle. Alle dependend on if my remnant swordmasters, hopefully supported by a charge by my remnant seaguard, would be able to defeat the remnants of a black orc unit with general, and if that unit would break.

We called it a tie.

First time I used my Sea Helm to my advantage: the reformed and met a unit of boar riders, eliminated them, and could reform in the right direction.

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#27 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

Again some Blood & Glory against Dogs of War. I won, largely by shooting. My general succumbed to the deadly Kiilling-Blow-strikes of Vespero though.

It was my opponents first game with DoW, and several units were too small I think, especially those with the banners. My opponent had a bit too much shooting, which was no par against my elvish shooting, and he had not enough good blocks of infantry to reach my line.

We both felt confirmed that (heavy) cavalry can die very quickly in WAP.

We both like the Blood&Glory scenario. It's easy to see how victory is to be reached and the game tends to focus on that.

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#28 Post by SpellArcher »

Aerendar Valandil wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:50 am
First time I used my Sea Helm to my advantage
Do you feel like he will be sticking around?
Aerendar Valandil wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:37 am
Blood & Glory against Dogs of War. I won,
Bravo!

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#29 Post by Ramesesis »

Congratulations!

Heavy cav can hit hard and die hard. And maybe that is fitting. They are a hammer and need to hit hard. Cavalry that failed to break whatever they charged had a big problem. There are instances in history were they could grind through an enemy but more often than not they were better of if they could disengage and try again.

If they blew their horses, like the british heavy cavalry at Waterloo they were in trouble.

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#30 Post by Aerendar Valandil »

SpellArcher wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:03 pm
Do you feel like he will be sticking around?
Yes. I really feel HE need a BSB (I use him as a BSB) and he is relatively cheap, although his stats are lower than those of a noble. The Naval Discilpine power makes that you can risk firing a full last salvo with your seaguards and risk reforming at the last minute. I like it, also because I really like seaguards as a unit. I commonly field them between 25 and 36, and that is a hellovalot of shots.

I dit field him before, but it seldom came to a fight in close combat in which I still had three or more ranks. This was the first time I actuallty used the ability.
'
I have tried spearelves twice now, I am still not convinced. I will keep trying though.

The same about larger units of cavalry. I field 10 Silver Helms maximum, and they die like flies. Any characters in there are quickly on their own.

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