MasterOfNone wrote:I will post though while I paint, only it will be some time before I start.
Looking forward to it MoN.
Prince of Spires wrote:A lvl 2 night goblin shamans with magic mushrooms and some stuff comes in at around the same price, but would give the army a very different dynamic.
The first problem with goblin magic is where to keep the shaman. An orc is fine in the Big'Uns because he has the right footprint and is more durable, the goblin not so much. Wolf Riders are a bit lightweight and prone to failing Panic tests. (Night) Goblin infantry are usual but if we keep these safely behind the line the shaman has a spell range problem. They can be deployed in the battle line but then they need to load up on extra protection to have any chance of keeping the caster alive. There is at least one more, unusual, option.
Prince of Spires wrote:A much more reliable and versatile magic phase
The problem with goblin magic is the limited Signature spell. Normally this would steer me away from taking a single lvl 2 but the other spells are pretty much all good. I also like the Attribute because it messes with the enemy's planning.
Boar Boyz Revisited
I've been doing a lot of thinking Rod about the unit choice issue outlined in my previous big post. The main problem with the second Troll unit is the Trolls - Big'Uns - Trolls deployment it pretty much mandates, as we've all discussed. While this
can sometimes push as Seredain described above, it's a bit limited. The obvious alternative is to load up on war machines and sit. At this 3000pts tournament though, I'd still be restricted to double Doom Diver, double stone thrower. Six bolt shooters could be added but I'm not sure it's all that. Again, Allied cannon might be possible but we're getting further and further away from the army I want to field. Black Orcs would at least (with Gleaming Pennant) be able to operate independently but M4 is a massive issue in a probable meta of big flyers and cannon.
The first problem with Boar Boyz is the Ld 7. I believe a unit of 10 needs the Gleaming Pennant because at some point it's going to fail a test. With spears, shields and full command that comes out at 240pts. This seems a bad value though, when for the same cost an Empire player can get four Demigryphs that eat my unit alive. I could add an orc hero but that takes the cost over 300pts. Any more character spend is just too much in a unit with no Ward IMHO.
The interesting thing is that fighting orc characters on boars can actually work. An orc lord on foot is pretty much limited to a 4+ Armour Save and even a Black Orc (because he comes with Heavy Armour) only gets to 3+. Armour of Silvered Steel is available for a 2+ but it's hard to build a character that makes sense with it in other ways. For my best fighters, this is no good. The problem is compounded by being stuck in an M4 block. In fact, I've spent a fair amount of time trying to
stop strong enemy units from contacting them! Clearly something is wrong here. I still like the orc lvl 4 (with a 4++) in this block because it's a good location for his spellcasting and the unit really benefits from his Ld8. With Gleaming Pennant they'd be fine, even if I removed the General and BSB.
An Orc hero or lord on boar can get to a 2+ AS but a Black Orc, uniquely in this army, can reach that magic 1+. The Lord can be equipped similarly to a High Elf Prince. He doesn't have ASF but he does have certain Strength advantages. He also Quells Animosity and of course brings WS 7. The first issue if I go for armour is vulnerability to (Death) snipes. So it kind of makes sense to include an orc shaman in the unit for MR 3. It's also possible to almost guarantee that shaman gets the crucial re-roll to hit spell. So we maybe have something like this:
Black Orc Warboss, Boar, Shield, Giant Blade, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Ironcurse Icon 287
Black Orc BSB, Boar, Shield, Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield, Luckstone 183
Orc Lvl 2, Boar, MR 3 161
12 Boar Boyz, Spear, Shield, FC, +1 Ld Standard 290
At 921 points this is an expensive unit. It's also a good one though and I always lean towards spending too much on good units that actually do stuff versus cheaper, mediocre ones that don't so much. M7 is not amazing but it has Swiftstride so is far faster and more flexible than almost any other fighting unit in the book. As mentioned, the characters lack re-rolls but have +1 S first round from Choppas and the Lord is base S8. The unit still probably needs to remain within 12" of the Trolls most of the time but moving the foot Shaman out to give those Ld 8 is a tactical option. For reference, that guy would carry 4+ Ward, Ruby Ring, Scroll. I'm not so worried about blowing the Big'Uns up if my General and BSB are elsewhere.
The interesting thing is, this is just a prototype build. There are other, stranger ways I can go with this unit.