Core Infantry

[SpellArcher]

So here I'd like to discuss the infantry options. These are Spears, Archers and Sea Guard. I believe there are basically three roles for these, light shooting, character bunker and combat support, though stop-gap redirector and other uses are possible.

Spears

Clearly these can't be a dedicated shooting unit. You could use a smallish unit as a bunker, perhaps because at 8pts each they are relatively cheap. This has the disadvantage of not being able to double as shooting support though. The obvious use is as a substantial block. While this isn't an awesome fighting unit, it does get bodies on the field in numbers, so is clearly good at retaining and breaking Steadfast. You don't have to worry so much about formation because a 5-wide column is usually best. You can also march around freely because you don't have to worry about needing to shoot. Because it has a lot of wounds it could be a decent home for a BSB for example, who needs to stay fairly close to the action. Taking the Heavy Armour upgrade could reduce the bodies you can bring but it also cuts down enemy combat res for example.

Archers

These make some sense in small units. 10 with a musician for example costs 100pts which makes it semi-disposable. It's another deployment drop. 10 S3 shots won't mow down anything badass but can be generally useful for taking out lighter enemy. You can keep a character in such a unit but it's risky because it's easily Panicked and some enemies can shoot/magic off the whole unit plus character in one go. So slightly bigger probably for a bunker. Archers benefit from a 30" range, which helps with staying out of trouble and being able to make those shots count most turns. Though if bunkering a mage, the range of his spells needs to be considered too. A larger unit could make good use of Banner of Cleansing Fire for example.

Sea Guard

As a pure shooting unit these are mostly at a disadvantage compared to Archers. 24" range vs 30" and 11pts per model vs 9pts. Quick to Fire complicates this though. It's surprising how often you want to edge them back, or Swift Reform or wheel a little and QTF lets you do so without penalty. It also lets you Stand and Shoot at any range of course. As a support combat block you're looking at less bodies than Spears, especially if you upgrade to Heavy Armour. Weapons Master though gives them the option of parrying in combat which can really help them stay alive. Bunker makes sense but the need to stay within 24" can limit magical options and can put the unit in danger.

The trick to Sea Guard of course is balancing these roles and getting the most out of them. Formations are tricky because they can only shoot in two ranks unless they stay put. If there's any possibility of combat they probably want to go three or four deep at least. QTF helps with the Swift Reforming they very likely want to do. Another option is of course to pay for Ambush, though this does complicate bunkering. This is a unit that will be moving a lot but Marching less often, once again a compromise between the other two options.

This is of course just touching on all the issues here, so I'd be glad of any comments or observations.

[Nicene]

I'm eager to try out 25 Coast Guard, no characters, with 4+ armor save in my next game. It's against Warriors, though, so their shooting won't do much. . . but the parry rule could really come in handy as most stuff in that book is WS5 or better.

I wonder if I'd be better taking 30 with 5+ armor. They'd probably live longer, but would give up more combat res.

[SpellArcher]

Hmm, I think it depends what he brings. Any light cav or hounds can be shot of course. But aren't the chariots T4 and 4+ now rather than the tanks they used to be? Flaming Swords might really cause some pain.

25 HA looks kind of sensible, your list has 3 x Reavers to complete Core doesn't it Nicene? I'm considering something similar but alongside 10 Archers and 5 Lancers, though in my case I want it to bunker too. I wondered about deploying it 5 x 5. That way if the enemy attacks fast you have the option of staying put and Volley Firing with the whole unit while remaining in a sensible fighting formation. If he doesn't you can Swift Reform two or three deep (without losing accuracy because of QTF) and maneouvre to shoot most effectively. I found with even 20 that I stayed three-deep because I didn't have the space to manouevre a 10-wide unit. This issue becomes more acute with 25 and especially 30. Guys have used Archer Hordes for ages but the extra range and the reduced temptation to see combat may mean that those can be deployed nearer the flanks and hence have more room. I've always felt Sea Guard are best deployed centre-left or centre-right, where they can reliably get into 24" range but be protected from combat if necessary.

[Nicene]

Smart; I will definitely follow that advice and deploy them 5-wide.

[chumchu]

I'm slightly miffed that high elves now clearly have the worst spears among elves. Fighting in an extra rank and better leadership in non-critical situations does not compensate for the dark elves killer instinct and their synergistic blessings, cults and banners. Wood elves get stubborn, ws 5 and if they stand in a wood they get extra rank and killer instinct.

I would balance it as follows:

High elves get heavy armour 1 point cheaper, wood elves can not get innate defense 6+. Then at 9 points the high elves are the sturdiest, dark elves (with Nabh) have the most damage output and the potential to be elite class if they pay more, while wood elves are the best tarpit and just better than the others in forests.

[SpellArcher]

I'm slightly miffed that high elves now clearly have the worst spears among elves.

This is true but they always did to some extent I feel. Whereas HE elites wipe the floor with WE Rangers for example and did in 8th too. Both the latter and HE spears probably need some kind of buff.

[Nicene]

I think HE spears and core in general is in a good place.

[SpellArcher]

The question for me now is, under what circumstances are Spears a better choice than Sea Guard? They're cheaper so you get more bodies, which is significant. But that's their only advantage. SG can shoot, Parry, Ambush. Chumchu's list here is a shot at making them work:

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=69625

But are the Spears better here than say a single block of 30 Sea Guard in heavy armour?

[Nicene]

I think an even more pertinent question is: would you ever take Archers over CG? 30" range is hardly any better than 24" with QTF, even as a pure shooting unit. And Coast Guard are so much more versatile.

I think I could see Spears over CG in a pure rushdown list. A unit of 50 without the armor is comparable in price to 30 CG with armor, and you get tons of ranks. If I had models for this I might try it with my melee/sky sloop list.

In a defensive style list, I'd think that CG are worth the points upgrade over spears.

[SpellArcher]

I think an even more pertinent question is: would you ever take Archers over CG? 30" range is hardly any better than 24" with QTF, even as a pure shooting unit. And Coast Guard are so much more versatile.

I think a small unit of 10 or so is better as Archers. Not only is it cheaper (and hence more disposable) but I feel the extra range matters more when it's pure shooting support. The Archers can hit pretty much anything within 35". Yes the Sea Guard can do the same within 29" but this means ending up within 24". The target probably won't be able to charge but it's friends might well be able to. Enemy with 24" range will be able to shoot back.

Sea Guard get better in a larger unit I believe. A fair-sized group of Archers is still cheaper and can equally benefit from the Flaming banner say. But SG are obviously more able to take a charge and Quick to Fire gets better the happier you are to maneouvre close to the enemy. If the unit is bunkering mages say, the range of their spells is relevant. With long ranges you might be happier with Archers to keep your distance.

A unit of 50 without the armor

I have to say I'm suspicious of this. I've always felt 30-35 to be a bit of a sweet spot for Spears. But the same argument applies if you take this reduced unit and fill out Core with Archers or cavalry say. It would be good to know how such a spear block performs and what kind of (somewhat aggressive) list it might fit into. Though we did see it as part of a very successful PG/shooting list in 8th.