Tethlis' Army Blog, The Old World

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Elessehta of Yvresse
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: Used my DE today, comments for HE player

#391 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

He checks in every now and again, and is part of the Secret Santa so won't disappear completely.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: Used my DE today, comments for HE player

#392 Post by Tethlis »

I got in a game vs DE with my HE, using:

-Level 4 with Book of Hoeth, Talisman of Preservation
-Level 1 with Scroll
-BSB w/ Reaver Bow, Potion of Strength, halberd, heavy armor
-5 Reavers w/ bows
-5 Reavers w/ bows
-5 Reavers w/ bows
-5 Silver Helms w/ musi, shields
-5 Silver Helms w/ musi, shields
-25 Phoenix Guard w/ fc, Razor Standard
-21 White Lions w/ fc, BotWD
-9 Sisters
-RBT
-RBT
-Frost Phoenix

He had:

-Level 4 with Cloak of Twilight, Dark Steed, Dispel Scroll, Shadow
-Level 2 with Tome of Furion, Dark
-BSB w/ Sword of Might, heavy armor, Enchanted Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak
-5 Dark Riders w/ shields, rxbows
-5 Dark Riders w/ shields, rxbows
-5 Dark Riders w/ shields, rxbows
-30 Corsairs w/ fc
-30 Executioners w/ fc
-Hydra
-Hydra
-Kharibdyss
-Kharibdyss
-10 Warlocks

So the points that I've seen a lot of players put into shooting went into more monsters/units in this list. I think DE need that critical board control, but monsters can help achieve it since they potentially soak up missile fire and can help keep movement lanes clear. Similarly, Corsairs aren't the blender that WE are, but with two Strength Augments and two Toughness Hexes, my opponent had a lot of spell redundancy for jacking up their killing power. Also, they can't be controlled via Frenzy, and are far more durable than WE at range, so I found myself actually wishing it was WE on the table instead of Corsairs.

Deployment
For Deployment, I was pretty sure I wanted to present a strong combat front. I didn't know if my opponent would have a lot of firepower or not, so I deployed my Cav slightly back off the front line in order to help insulate them from rxbows and bolt throwers. Simply using infantry regiments as a wall for protecting Reavers is a nice way to help keep them alive for an extra turn or two until they can redirect or apply pressure on enemy warmachines. When I saw my opponent dropping all those monsters though, I opted load up my DZ slightly on the left-hand side, leaving the RBTs as a tempting target that my opponent might go after and thereby waste resources getting rid of.

Image

DE Turn 1
My opponent won first turn, and used his Vanguards to get up the table fast with his Cav. I opted not to Vanguard much, preferring to keep my Fast Cav safe until they were needed. He hexed the Silver Helms with Miasma, possibly expecting them to suicide charge into the Warlocks, then his Level 2 IFed Power of the Darkness to blow up a chunk of the Corsairs and Panicking them. Tough opening turn for him. A few scattered rxbow shots but nothing terribly lethal.

Image

HE Turn 1
My goal this turn was to occupy or kill his Dark Riders, assert control over tabletop movement, and start doing damage to his monsters and blocks if I could manage it. I charged the left Helm unit at his Dark Riders to get them out of the way, running them down and blocking up his charge lane with the Helms. My elite blocks maneuvered slightly closer, giving him a tempting long-distance charge but still leaving probability of a failure. My Cav on the right flank, near the rxbows, kept playing grabass with the Dark Riders. I couldn't afford to allocate RBT shots against them, they weren't a high priority threat, so I just made a wall using the Silver helms and hoped to get a lucky Panic with some Reaver shots.

Magic wasn't much of anything. A 4/2 phase saw him roll hot to Dispel, and me break Concentration even with the Book. There's nothing worse than re-rolling a 1... And getting another 1. Seems to happen a lot.

Shooting was far more profitable though. The Sisters and bolt throwers knocked 4 Wounds off a K-Beast, the Archers and Reaver Bow killed a couple Warlocks, and my Reavers did nothing against the Dark Riders :P

I was feeling pretty confident this turn. I expected the Silver Helms to die, but the Lions/Phoenix Guard were far enough back that any overrun would be a long one, but any counter-charge by me would be pretty easy to make.

Image

DE Turn 2
My opponent charged in the Executioners against the Phoenix Guard, needing a 9 and making the charge :/. The Silver Helms fled the Kharibdyss since it wasn't close enough to redirect into anything major, but promptly rolled a 3 and were run down. His Fast Cav maneuvered into places to be annoying, while his Corsairs rallied and started getting back into the game. His monsters maneuvered for future charges. Magic phase was 6/4, with my opponent Channeling once for 11 Dice. He threw Miasma at the Phoenix Guard, rolling 10 + 4 from his Level 4. I threw 3 dice at countering it... Rolled 3,1,1... Re-rolled a 1 and got another 1. Sweet... Lucky for me, he only rolled a 1 for the Miasma's D3 so I kept my Initiative high and kept my re-rolls that could have been awful. I scrolled Enfeebling Foe on the Phoenix Guard, had to let through Doombolt on the Phoenix (only did 1 Wound) and got lucky when he failed to hit Soublight on the Phoenix Guard. All things considered, averages pretty much evened out there in terms of casting.

He continued plinking away with repeater crossbows, without much effect. They really need RBTs and magic to back them up...

In combat, I tossed a challenge out with my Level 4 to minimize attacks on her and cut off a file of incoming attacks from the Executioners. He accepted with his master and my Level 4 tanked him for only 1 Wound received. My Phoenix Guard gleefully chopped down 7 Executioners, lost 5 in return and I actually won the combat by 1 point thanks to Rank Bonuses. My opponent flopped his Break Test and started running, and while my Phoenix Guard couldn't catch they easily made it into combat with the Warlocks and Supreme Sorceress parked right behind the Execs. Neither of us saw that one coming...

Image

HE Turn 2
This diagram is a mess, but I'll explain what all is going on here. My Phoenix Guard were engaged with the Warlocks, while my Frost Phoenix charged in to help out. The Lions charged the Kharibdyss that had eaten the Silver Helms, who opted to flee the charge. The Lions redirected into the Hydra. All my chaff maneuvered to keep dealing with his chaff. Magic was still pretty inconsequential, I rolled up a 3/2 phase that didn't achieve much of anything. Shooting continued to be much better though, with the Sisters finishing off the wounded Kharibdyss, Panicking his War Hydra buddy and sending him fleeing, while the Archers/Reaver bow shot down the left-flank Dark Riders, an RBT and Reavers shot down the right-flank Dark Riders, and my remaining RBT threaded a shot up the ass of the fleeing Kharibdyss for two Wounds.

In combat, the Phoenix Guard pretty much did what you'd expect them to do against a unit of Fast Cavalry, Ward Saves or no. The Phoenix was just so key here, letting the Phoenix Guard swing before the Warlocks to kill off pretty much all of them before they could retaliate, breaking them, running them down and and parking just behind the Executioners. The White Lions dropped the Hydra with exactly enough Wounds to kill it before it could swing back, reforming to face the Corsairs.

Image

DE Turn 3
At this point, my opponent resigned. He managed to rally his Executioners and the K-Beast, but they were a lot less fearsome without their BSB and staring at charges from 20 Phoenix Guard, a Frost Phoenix and 21 White Lions. The Corsairs knew they were going to be redirected until I was ready to get points from them, and the fleeing War Hydra kept fleeing right off the table. I still had my shooting and magic phase intact also, so there weren't many options left for my opponent.

Image

Afterthoughts:
In my mind, this game confirmed the idea that Dark Elves need their shooting phase just as badly as HE do, if not more so. It's critical they get good combats, and be able to deny the enemy shooting phase. That being said, this game hinged more on a mismatch (Execs vs PG) than it did on movement or shooting, but I think my opponent would have felt less rushed to get into combat if he felt his shooting phase could have contested mine. Seeing all four Monsters was intimidating, but their relatively slow speed and extreme fragility makes them more of an asset (a bit like a slow chariot with a lot of Wounds) rather than a face-stomping, damage-absorbing monster (like the Chimera) or a debuff machine like the Frost Phoenix. Speaking of Frosty, he's such a critical asset when swinging ASF vs ASF. With crossbows being inaccurate at extreme ranges, and bolt throwers being far from reliable against monsters (especially T6 monsters with Ward Saves) I'm feeling good about keeping him alive even in shooting-heavy matchups. Even really ranged-intensive Dark Elf lists are going to have to work hard to make dents in 2+ Save Core Cavalry, T6 Frost Phoenixes, 4+ Ward Phoenix Guard or 3+ Armor White Lions. I deliberately keep durability in mind when building my lists, and I think it's going to be critical to maximize that durability component when fighting Dark Elves. It's clear that GW balanced HE vs DE with durability versus offensive power in mind, so maximizing durability will help us.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#393 Post by Tiny »

Thank you Tethlis for this greate report! =D>
A bit sad how fast it all went down once the fight Execs vs PG was fought...

I Hope you do not mind if I repost your report(-s)!
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#394 Post by Tethlis »

Thanks for reading! Yeah the game ended up being pretty decisive in that one turn. We certainly could have played it out, but we both were fairly confident of how the rest of the battle would go.

Where are you thinking of reposting the reports, out of curiosity?
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#395 Post by Tiny »

Where are you thinking of reposting the reports, out of curiosity?
A Germany Warhammer Forum (see my Paint-Box for reference) I moderate. And since not all of us read multiple boards, I crossreference and quote others (here at Ulthuan.net in particular the very well written Battle Reports).
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#396 Post by Tethlis »

Very nice. Feel free to repost whatever you like.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#397 Post by HERO »

DE without shooting should just quit T1 vs. players with any kind of chaff.

You're literally playing without one of the most crucial phases for DE in the game. With so many favorable combat scenarios generated from having Frenzy and picking combats, without either of these, you're pretty much shit out of luck. Not to mention PG just roll over Executioners whereas Witches/Executioners crap all over White Lions.

I can see the Reaver Bow Noble being a staple now with DE's tendency to run monsters. It's essentially free wounds on the K-Beasts every turn, hitting on 2s, wounding on 4s with -2AS (4s to 6s). On kill turn with Potion, accept no subs.

Win the chaff war, or lose the game. DE is just not a durable enough army to execute any kind of long-term plan.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#398 Post by Stormie »

Ah I love a good "messy" battle report diagram full of arrows (especially red ones)! I kinda knew that your opponent was going to lose if he did that charge unsupported, but if the Executioners had instead won the combat, would your unit have been steadfast?
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#399 Post by Ferny »

Not wanting to take away from the win but I think you maybe got a bit lucky on a few things in this one. Looking forward to seeing more reports (especially vs DE) to see how you deal with them in other set-ups.

Nice win tho :)
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#400 Post by Malossar »

Hey let me get some feed back if it's not too much trouble:

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 15#p845915


I think on paper it has the tools to handle most of the current meta. Shadow magic plus one bad ass mini death star supported by double phoenixes and an almost decent shooting phase.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#401 Post by Tethlis »

My opponent had some rough luck in places for sure. Ironically enough I think that making that long charge hurt him much more than it helped. The PG would indeed have been steadfast, with the frost phoenix and WL close by to counter-charge. It would have been tough for the Execs, since no more Hatred in subsequent rounds would have meant game over for them anyway. I think my opponent's best bet would have been to keep the PG out of combat via redirectors and rushed at the support units and WL. They would have been pretty easy kills if he'd prioritized him, I think. Panicking the Corsairs was rough luck, but that's what happens when your general is running around on a horse and those big horde formations means your BSB is just a little too far away to give his re-rolls...

That being said, there was no way that combat between execs and PG was going to end well for him. PG versus Execs is almost a mirror match to something like WE or Black Guard versus White Lions. The PG may not hit as hard, but they tend to make up for it by stopping return attacks and having a lot more Static Combat Resolution. The result ends up being the same, just with different factors contributing to who wins the combat.

I expect this was something of a test game for my opponent, to see how much of his previous lists carried over to the new book. I don't blame him... I'm sure that hearing most of his Core is now useless, and that he has to track down a bunch of Repeater Bolt Throwers and Shades isn't exactly thrilling for him.

Malossar, I'll take a look.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#402 Post by Gildor777 »

Tethlis,

How did you like switching out the big block of Silverhelms for 2 small units? Obviously it helps give you so more board control, but did you miss the hitting power at all from the bigger lance? I think this is a great example of a small list change that could have very large consequences.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#403 Post by Ferny »

Gildor777 wrote:Tethlis,

How did you like switching out the big block of Silverhelms for 2 small units? Obviously it helps give you so more board control, but did you miss the hitting power at all from the bigger lance? I think this is a great example of a small list change that could have very large consequences.
Not answering for Tethlis but when I took the same step with my list (very similar). As two smaller units you lose a 'big' combat threat and exchange it for two support units for flank charges, chaff clearance and general board control etc. I found the switch worked much better, particularly because I didn't rate the hitting power of the lance (and actually the unit was potentially vulnerable to searing doom, scream etc). I'm loving the two units of silver helms instead of one bigger unit.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#404 Post by Motley »

That was a nice battle report thanks! Really interesting to see the DE match up especially after all the hand wringing at the new DE book.

I am new here and I have a really daft (and OT, sorry) question. What software do you use to create the battle reports? I have seen diagrams like that on a few reports now.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#405 Post by Tiny »

Motley wrote: I am new here and I have a really daft (and OT, sorry) question. What software do you use to create the battle reports? I have seen diagrams like that on a few reports now.
A nice peace of Software called BattleChronicler: http://www.battlechronicler.com/
It takes some time to get used to it, but it's worth it

@Tethlis: Thank you! :D
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#406 Post by HERO »

Hero
Noble with Reaver Bow, Potion of Strength, Dragonbane Gem, heavy armor, halberd, battle standard.
147
I must be losing it, I swear. I have the same loadout on my guy right now and I'm not getting 147!
Noble - 70
Halberd - 2
Heavy Armor - 4
Reaver - 25
Potion - 20
Gem - 5
BSB - 25
---
151

Core
Ellyrian Reavers (5) with musician, bows
95

Should't this be 105?

Regardless, I've been doing something crazy with my High Elves lately, and that's taking all Archers for core in addition to High Magic. Hand of Glory on a big unit of Archers draws DD every turn it seems like. With so many DE in the meta, Flames and Tempest is are just weapons of mass destruction.
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15x Archers, Mus = 160
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#407 Post by Ferny »

HERO wrote:
Hero
Regardless, I've been doing something crazy with my High Elves lately, and that's taking all Archers for core in addition to High Magic. Hand of Glory on a big unit of Archers draws DD every turn it seems like. With so many DE in the meta, Flames and Tempest is are just weapons of mass destruction.
28x Archers, FC = 310
15x Archers, Mus = 160
15x Archers, Mus = 160
I'm tempted to take more archers in a shadow list (-T and mindrazor) but otherwise I think they'll struggle against armour and high T (but mostly armour). I think you'll lose board control compared to small units of cav core and will present easy targets to fast, tough stuff (e.g. maneaters, chimeras, skullcrushers, cavalry etc).

Fair play to you if it works in practice though!
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#408 Post by Tethlis »

@HERO
Yeah I copied and pasted from my wrong army list copies. I dropped the Musicians from the Reavers and Heavy Armor from my BSB to fit the point total.

FYI, played a game of DE vs WoC. My opponent had:

-Nurgle Daemon Prince, the usual
-Disc BSB, the usual
-Throgg
-8 Trolls
-6 Trolls
-Nurgle Chariot
-Nurgle Chariot
-5 Hounds
-5 Hounds
-5 Hounds
-3 Crushers
-Chimera, the usual
-Chimera, the usual

I think that was the list... I did up Battle Chronicler diagrams, I just have to get around to posting them. A few highlights though:

-The Daemon Prince took 57 Strength 5 hits and 9 bolt throwers shots to be brought down. My dice were NOT with me, and my opponent was rolling Armor and Ward Saves effortlessly. Eventually brought him down, but after the Daemon Prince and Throgg at my Executioners and BSB in one round of combat. I 6-diced Doombolt at him four times, using the bulk of my casting dice in the opening phases. I'm very concerned from a balance standpoint about Warlocks simply hurling 6 dice at Doombolt without any repercussions. I'm nervous about that approach being used against me, and it makes me more grateful for 4+ Ward Phoenix Guard and 2+ BotWD saves.

-I managed a clutch Pit of Shades to weaken Throgg's unit, and a Witch Elf countercharge in my following turn took care of him while my bolt throwers finally got the Daemon Prince.

-Shades were really valuable for clearing hounds and weakening Chimeras, since I needed my RBTs and magic for other things.

-If I could find a better alternative to using the Kharibdyss, I would. Perhaps some Pegasus characters. Only 5 Attacks, no re-rolls or anything like that, lots of fragility, slow, and the Ld re-roll (the best part of him, in my opinion) doesn't work against 75% of the things that I would want to force a Ld re-roll against. Kind of rough. He's cheap, so I'm not heartbroken including two of them, but damn are they unimpressive.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#409 Post by HERO »

Yeah the Kharibdyss is horrendously unimpressive. I'm thinking about removing them completely from my lists, since 160 points nearly buys you 10x Shades with GWs.

I don't mind Warlocks chucking 6-dice at Doombolt. Needing a 24, on average dice and Lv.2, you hit 23 lol. You could essentially throw all those dice for nothing.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#410 Post by Velmates »

Hey Tethlis!

As I have said some hundred posts up, I really enjoy your reports. Actually, these kind of reports (including yours, Hero's, Swordmaster of Hoeth's and many more) werde the reason why I started HE earlier this year (some months before the release of the new book). Since I was busy with university and my army still in progress, maybe you could share some thoughts on my list. It is basically very similar to yours but I am running a Loremaster instead of the two casters you are using, just 20 PG instead of 25 and a unit of DP in addition to the rest.

Do you think, reducing the unit sizes too much (i.e. 20 PG, 20 WL etc.) in favor of an additional unit is bad in general? I know it depends on my playstyle, but would you be happy with just 20 PG and the DPs?
I am a bit unsure about the Loremaster. I have read very different opinions on him. I have tried him just once lately (actually my only game because of lack of time) and liked him and the great spell selection. But then again a Level 4 AM w/Book and the Scroll-Caddie seem tempting. How do you think would your list change in terms of playing/board set-up/etc. if you were to change the Level 4 + Level 1 + 25 PG to a single Loremaster + 20 PG + 5 DP?

I know it is difficult to say but you have tried the Loremaster yourself (as I can see in a report) and used the DP and small unit of PG in the 7th edition book. Maybe you can give some opinion on the combination of them.

Thanks a lot. I appreciate input from every other source as well of course.

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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#411 Post by Tethlis »

Thanks for the reply, Velmates. I think the Loremaster has some great assets, for sure. I've often considered giving him a try again. He's got great fluff and background, adds a little punch to a unit, and the spell lineup is fantastic. I just have a little difficulty making the points work for me, since he starts out as being pretty pricey, and definitely likes having the full 100 points of wargear to help him cast and stay alive. None of those are bad things, but I personally would be reluctant to give up both the Book of Hoeth, a Dispel Scroll and a Level 4. I think a High Elf magic phase can, bare bones, get away with having 2 out of 3 of those things. Losing all 3 is a tall order, I haven't really tried it myself in 8th edition, but I say give it a shot and see how it works.

Regarding the size of the Phoenix Guard, I think you can get away with having fewer Phoenix Guard but obviously have to manage your expectations in terms of what they can hold against. One reason I like running Phoenix Guard at 25 strong is because they often stay Steadfast against a ton of meta-current units. Even if they're totally unsupported, with no help at all, Phoenix Guard will often stick on Steadfast for 3+ rounds of combat against terrifying odds. I played a game a couple days ago where I failed an easy charge with them, and ate a counter-charge from a Nurgle Daemon Prince, 21 Nurgle Chaos Warriors with Halberds and a Gorebeast Chariot. At 25 strong, they stuck around until I plowed a Frost Phoenix into the Nurgle Warriors, BotWD Lions into the Daemon Prince and promptly ended the combat with 6 Phoenix guard still standing.

Sorry for the lengthy anecdote, but 5 fewer models and they wouldn't have survived that situation :D. 20 is perfectly fine to use, but they'll Break quicker and won't hit as hard once they lose that third rank.

The Dragon Princes are a nice template for support lores. If you were running dedicated Lore of Shadow, I'd say yes because Miasma, Enfeebling, Withering, Mindrazor all enhance their killing power a lot. Wildform from a Loremaster helps them, but they end up being pretty pillowfisted after they spend that lance charge and he doesn't have too many other spells that help them get that killing power back once they're Strength 3. I generally rely on Core Silver Helms these days... They can take out light units just as easily, and having Core versus Special is just such a massive difference. I'm not qualified to comment on using Princes much in our 8th edition book though, so I can only give you the reasons I haven't used them yet!

I hope that helps. Namely, I don't think there's a "wrong" answer because I think a lot depends on your meta and your playstyle. I've made the choices I've made because they work with my playstyle, my meta, my competitive scene and what I know. I like Shadow because it helps me shoot, and because it bails me out of trouble versus Warriors of Chaos. I like having a Scroll because suppressing magic is a huge asset. I like big Phoenix Guard units because I don't want them going anywhere. If you have good reasons for making your choices, then go for it and let us know how it pans out.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#412 Post by Ferny »

Tethlis wrote:...I don't think there's a "wrong" answer because I think a lot depends on your meta and your playstyle. I've made the choices I've made because they work with my playstyle, my meta, my competitive scene and what I know. If you have good reasons for making your choices, then go for it and let us know how it pans out.
I think, once you've decided to go down the PG Razor/WL BotWD route, all optimization relies on this. I think we'll see quite a bit of diversity in support units for these central elites.

FWIW, I dried DPs early on (as a continuation of 7th ed 5-man squads), in part because I wanted the flaming banner for combat and couldn't get that on silver helms. I dropped them because I found in some games I didn't need them and I actually ended up having so many units they were getting in the way of eachother a bit. Without a strong role for them in most games I ditched them to boost the lions numbers.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#413 Post by Glorfindain »

Great battle report, thanks for posting! I had a similiar situation where my regular opponent took 6 monsters in total for our 3000 point game a dreadlord on dragon, 3 Hydra and 2 Kbeasts. Two flanking forces of an Annointed on FP teamed up with a noble on a maxed out griffon on one end and a unit of 15 Silver Helms on the other put paid to all 6 by turn 5. All those big beasties came at the cost of no shooting except for two units of 5 shades that were neutralized by 10 Sisters and 2 units of 18 Archers. It was glorious.....................just glorious. :D
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#414 Post by Tethlis »

@Ferny
I don't have a great sense of what the "common" High Elf build is these days, since I've been a bit unplugged from web discussion to focus on playing games here in person. If WL/PG are growing in popularity, I can't fault it since I've been using that build for years (thanks Ptolemy.) I guess the real answer then comes down to what HE players are using to support those two blocks, and how they're using them on the field. Virtually all of my list goes into supporting those two combat regiments, which means the rest of my force focuses entirely on mobility, shooting and magic (except for the Frost Phoenix, but his role is entirely defined by being a support unit.) I wonder if players are having more success by adding additional combat threats in place of support.

@Glorfindain
Nice one. I don't think too highly of the new Dark Elf beasts, mostly because they're so fragile compared to equivalent monsters in other armies. I think they can be very useful cheap support units, but I think that "support" is the key theme there. Running a whole pack of them seems like inviting disaster, since they don't have the durability to hold up in a fight on their own. Charging in alongside Witch Elves or Executioners, I think they're quite scary though. Sounds like you played a great game there.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#415 Post by Malossar »

Hey buddy any games to report? Are you attending the SoCal Slaughter GT? I'm wondering if it's worth the drive from redding...


Here's my take on your list I need a little heavy cav to spice it up a bit ;)


Loremaster - 325
-Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Preservation, Ring of Fury

Prince - 271
-Heavy Armor, Shield, Dragon Helm, Giant Blade, DawnStone, B. Steed

Noble - 164
-Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armor, Iron Curse Icon, B. Steed, Battle Standard

Noble - 184
-Eagle, Heavy Armor, Lance, White Lion Cloak, Reaver Bow, Potion of Strength, Charmed Shield

5x Reavers w. Bows, Spears - 95
5x Reavers w. Bows, Spears - 95
5x Reavers w. Bows, Spears - 95
12x Archers w. Musician - 130
8x Silver Helms w. Full Command, Shields - 214

23x Phoenix Guard w. Full Command, Razor Standard - 420

Frost Heart Phoenix
9x Sisters of Avelorn
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower

2499
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#416 Post by Tethlis »

Hey hey. A number of games played, but not much to report. Been knocking around some Special Character lists, mostly because I've completely ignored them for the last ~15 years and they're gaining a bit more momentum it seems. The Everqueen and Hellebron in particular for High and Dark. Hellebron was gross... Just gross. Baited a unit of Crushers right into her path via Dark Riders and she killed the whole unit with just her attacks. Alongside a support character with Other Trickster's Shard and I'd be surprised if most things could stand up to her.

For High Elves, been feeling very comfortable about my own build. I dig your list too, you'll probably be loved by all and sundry for not having BotWD. Obviously losing out on a full combat block hurts a bit, but your characters have teeth and that should keep you in the mix pretty easily.

I keep forgetting you're from Redding... My buddy Mark grew up there as I recall, I'm actually playing his Dwarves later today.

I've been to the Socal Slaughter in past years, but not at that venue. It's probably been 3 or 4 years since I've attended, but this would be a good year to do it. I'm run a big ragged because I'm actually organizing an Infinity tournament in Santa Barbara the weekend prior, and I'm also hoping to play in it so I'll be a busy bee. If you're feeling like scratching the Fantasy itch though, that's a good event to check out until the Quake City Rumble or something similar swings around again.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#417 Post by Malossar »

The problem with SoCal is the timing. It's only a few weekends before Christmas and I have a hard time justifying spending extra money on travel. It's also the weekend before finals!

I'll definitely be attending QCR this year... just waiting to see if any other major tournaments are worth attending on the West Coast.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#418 Post by Tethlis »

Malossar Dragonborne wrote:The problem with SoCal is the timing. It's only a few weekends before Christmas and I have a hard time justifying spending extra money on travel. It's also the weekend before finals!

I'll definitely be attending QCR this year... just waiting to see if any other major tournaments are worth attending on the West Coast.
Yeah I hear you. It's a much, much easier trip for me than it is for you, so I may round up some locals here and try to swing down for the Slaughter. I always try and get painted and prepped with an army before I head to a big event, but I'd have to really get cracking for my High Elves to be together. With the changes I've been making, I'd need to finish a couple Cav units in time. I can paint relatively fast, but I've got a lot of other stuff on the work bench that's sitting as a higher priority right now.

Do you have a group you usually travel with when you go to events? Or you normally run solo?
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#419 Post by Malossar »

One or two others. We only have 6-8ish people who even play Fantasy in Redding three of us travel to tournaments.
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Re: Tethlis' Army Blog: HE vs DE, updated 10/9

#420 Post by Malossar »

Hey here's my first draft for QCR (i like to make lists and run them for a few months before making adjustments.)

Loremaster - 325
-Dispel Scroll, Ring of Fury, Talisman of Preservation

Prince - 276
-Heavy Armor, Shield, Dragon Helm, Giant Blade, Dawnstone, B. Steed, Pot of Fools

Noble - 164
-Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armor, Luckstone B. Steed, Battle Standard

5x Reavers w. Bows - 85
5x Reavers w. Bows - 85
5x Reavers w. Bows 85
5x Silver Helms w. Shields, Banner - 125
5x Silver Helms w. Shields, Banner - 125
5x Silver Helms w. Shields, Banner - 125

20x Phoenix Guard w. Full Command, Razor Standard - 375
8x Dragon Princes w. Full Command, Star Lance, Banner of the World Dragon - 342

Frost Heart Phoenix
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower

8 to play with. Might keep the 5 pts in the back pocket for Book of Hoeth...


Let me know what you think. Frostie? Might 2 more bolt throwers + sisters be a better combo?
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