2400pts HE vs Skaven

This forum is for the posting of reports of your famous victories and crushing defeats. It is for both single battle reports and for ongoing army diaries/blogs.

Moderators: The Heralds, The Loremasters

Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Prince of Spires
Auctor Aeternitatum
Posts: 8362
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:07 pm
Location: The city of Spires

2400pts HE vs Skaven

#1 Post by Prince of Spires »

As hinted at here, I've recently had a 2400 pts game vs skaven. I didn't have a lot of time to prepare, and I hadn't played in ages, so I brought a list I'd made a long time ago, and one I've already used in the past. I decided to go for fun and whacky rather than the strongest list out there, which is why you'll find the Dragon Mage in there. Every now and then we'll play with special characters. We bring them for flavor, not powerlevel, which is why you'll find Eltharion in my list. Which is actually one of the more balanced special characters out there I feel. Anyway, I brought:

Lords
Eltharion on Stormwing

Hero's
BSB, barded steed, HA, enchanted shield, sword of might, dawnstone
Dragon mage, lvl2, dragon armour, charmed shield, starlance, luckstone

Core
archers, 24, musician
SH, 10, fc, shields
reavers, 5, musician

Special
PG, 17, fc, armour piercing banner

Rare
frostheart
Sisters, 10

Only 1 redirector in there. I felt I could get away with it given how mobile a lot of my units were. Also a unit of Sisters. Last battle they didn't do much except die, so I wanted to give them another chance and see how they did combined with the regular archers. Eltharion took Death, while the dragon mage obviously had fire.

Now, this battle was 3 weeks ago, so I'm a bit sketchy on the details, but my opponent roughly brought:
Lords
Lord Skrolk (the pestillence lord)
Plague monk on furnace (could have been a priest)

Heros
BSB with stuff

Core
20 slaves
25 clan rats
25 Stormvermin
40 plague monks

Special
5 poisoned wind gobladiers
10 plague censer bearers

Rare
Abomination
2 plague claw catapults
5 Jezzails
5 Jezzails
For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91

Check my writing blog for stories on the Prince of Spires and other pieces of fiction.
User avatar
Prince of Spires
Auctor Aeternitatum
Posts: 8362
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:07 pm
Location: The city of Spires

Re: 2400pts HE vs Skaven

#2 Post by Prince of Spires »

Deployment
Nothing too spectacular happened in deployment. We both had a hill central in our deployment zone. 2 forests, on stood on the left of the board (from my point of view), the other in the center. A building stood on the right side of the board. A few other bits and pieces scattered around, but nothing that really played a role in the battle.

I deployed fairly central. I had a lot fewer (important) drops, so I just opted for as standard a battleline as I could. I figured I'd adapt. Dragon Mage on the left flank, then the SH, Archers on the hill, next the Reavers, with Eltharion behind them. PG next to that, then the Sisters, and finally the Phoenix.

I anchored my right flank on the building there. He'd either have to go around it, which would take long enough for the battle to be decided by the time any unit did so. Or he'd have to squeeze everything to the left of the building, where his units would block each other. I could swing the cavalry right to support the PG, or the PG left to support the SH. I expected the Stormbanner in my opponents list (it was), so I gave my monsters enough room to walk, except for Eltharion, who prefered some cover in the back.

My oppponent deployed in 2 lines. In the back the 2 catapults on either flank, with the Jezzails between them, more to the center. The front line had the gobladiers, Abomb, slaves, Storm vermin, clanrats, Furnace unit, and censer bearers.

In my opinion the punch of this list was on the flanks, with the Abomb on one, and the furnace on the other. The slaves and clan rats weren't that scary, while the stormvermin can throw a surprise every now and then. But the forest and building offered a natural funnel, which meant not everything could reach me at the same time.

Which gave:
Image
For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91

Check my writing blog for stories on the Prince of Spires and other pieces of fiction.
User avatar
Axiem
Rhetor militaris
Posts: 553
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:50 pm

Re: 2400pts HE vs Skaven

#3 Post by Axiem »

Nice! Following.

Kind regards,

Axiem
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13859
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: 2400pts HE vs Skaven

#4 Post by SpellArcher »

Prince of Spires wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 2:47 pm I decided to go for fun and whacky rather than the strongest list out there, which is why you'll find the Dragon Mage in there.
Boo! Bring out the filth! Seriously, I get that your characters might not stand up at the highest level Rod. They're very interesting though and I think entirely strong enough for regular play. You've only got four spells but the two from Fire in particular are very dangerous here.

I really like the Archers because you automatically have Flaming Sword. Silver Helms and PG are solid. Obviously a lot depends on those three Monsters. I agree that the Abomination is dangerous but the Skaven list is really all about that Plague Monk block. Plague Lore is short-ranged, helpful given your lack of Scroll. Up close though it's very dangerous and I'm not sure even your Frostheart wants to engage that unit.

I feel your opponent should activate the Storm Banner immediately and push the Plague Furnace towards your centre. Vanguarding the Reavers up into it's face looks a very good idea. Similarly, I'd rush the Abomination forward before High Elf ranged attacks (such as a 3D6 Fireball) render it harmless. Once it's dealt with you can swing round and take that flank off.
User avatar
Prince of Spires
Auctor Aeternitatum
Posts: 8362
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:07 pm
Location: The city of Spires

Re: 2400pts HE vs Skaven

#5 Post by Prince of Spires »

SpellArcher wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 11:40 am Boo! Bring out the filth! Seriously, I get that your characters might not stand up at the highest level Rod. They're very interesting though and I think entirely strong enough for regular play. You've only got four spells but the two from Fire in particular are very dangerous here.
:lol:

I agree. It's a decent enough list. It sure is interesting, competing in all phases of the game. It's very mobile (and the PG can take care of themselves). It is a list that will struggle against certain types of lists. Anything that can deal with the monsters (cannons), lists with strong magic. And also lists with a lot of combat power. I can imagine something like ogres being hard to deal.

And indeed, the biggest danger of the Skaven list is the monks + furnace. The Abomb can be a nightmare, but it's a bit random and it has less staying power if it's on its own.

Magic wise: I got Fireball and Flaming Sword on the dragon mage. Eltharion got Spirit Leech and Fate of Bjuna.

Anyway, on to turn 1
I won the roll for first turn. (I rolled a 6, and had fewer drops). I didn't vanguard the Reavers, seeing no need to do so. My opponent didn't activate the stormbanner this turn. I decided to focus on the left flank first. If I could clear that, then I could gang up on the furnace unit. The other way round was way more dangerous.
There were no charges. I moved my reavers to the side of the building, keeping them out of charge range. Sisters also move forward so they can actually hit stuff with their shooting. Eltharion moved to the foot of the forest, from where he could threaten the left flank, but be out of vision for a lot of the shooting. Dragon and frostheart move to the center in front of the hill. PG move up on their right, while the SH move up on their left. Slow progress, since I feel I have ranged superiority.
Magic gives me a big phase: 11 to 6 dice (rolled a 10 and got a channel). I cast a Big fireball with 6-dice on the Abomb. My opponent fails his disspell. I take a whole bunch of wounds off it. My opponent scrolls spirit leech. Flaming sword on 1 dice fails.
Shooting:
My archers go to town and take the final wound off the Abomb. They actually hit somehting for a change! Sisters kill 2 rats from the furnace unit.

Skaven turn 1
My opponent moves everything forward, but slowly. He's afraid of the monsters and SH charging. He also runs into the issue I expected, where there isn't enough room to the left of the building to fit his whole army easily.
Magic is a dud. He only has 1 spell worth casting, one which does a lot of wounds to all flying creatures, and I dispell it.
Shooting is about as terrible. The one catapult misfires (no harm to the machine unfortunately), while the other scatters 10'' off the table. One unit of Jezzails fills a SH, the other kills a PG.

Which gives:
Image

All in all, a good turn for HE. I'll trade an Abomb for 1 SH and 1 PG any day of the week. And Everything is still far enough away that I can maneuvre around it and avoid any charges I need to.
For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91

Check my writing blog for stories on the Prince of Spires and other pieces of fiction.
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13859
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: 2400pts HE vs Skaven

#6 Post by SpellArcher »

Prince of Spires wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 3:24 pm I didn't vanguard the Reavers, seeing no need to do so. My opponent didn't activate the stormbanner this turn.
Touché!
Prince of Spires wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 3:24 pm Dragon and frostheart move to the center in front of the hill.
Did you consider a more aggressive move with the Dragon Rod?
Prince of Spires wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 3:24 pm I cast a Big fireball with 6-dice on the Abomb. My opponent fails his disspell. I take a whole bunch of wounds off it. My opponent scrolls spirit leech.
What was the target for Spirit Leech? I'd have been tempted to scroll the Fireball.
Prince of Spires wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 3:24 pm My archers go to town and take the final wound off the Abomb. They actually hit somehting for a change!
There are few things in the game more beautiful than buffed shooting, even if Flaming Sword didn't work this time.
Prince of Spires wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 3:24 pm My opponent moves everything forward, but slowly.
He has to motor that Furnace block forward, surely? Lord Skrolk is too expensive and too dangerous not to seek combat.
Prince of Spires wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 3:24 pm All in all, a good turn for HE.
Copy that.
MasterOfNone
Posts: 378
Joined: Sat May 09, 2020 1:26 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 2400pts HE vs Skaven

#7 Post by MasterOfNone »

Hi Rod, any chance you can tell us how this went?
SA alerted me of this thread and it looks like an exciting battle.
My painting blog

My WHFB armies:
High Elves
Dwarfs
Orcs and Goblins
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13859
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: 2400pts HE vs Skaven

#8 Post by SpellArcher »

Yes Rod, more please!
User avatar
Prince of Spires
Auctor Aeternitatum
Posts: 8362
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:07 pm
Location: The city of Spires

Re: 2400pts HE vs Skaven

#9 Post by Prince of Spires »

I realy need to finish this report... It's been too long and I forgot some of it. I'll try to be as complete as possible. For anyone just tuning in, this was an 8th edition battle, fought somewhere last summer...
SpellArcher wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 11:54 am
Prince of Spires wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 3:24 pm Dragon and frostheart move to the center in front of the hill.
Did you consider a more aggressive move with the Dragon Rod?
I did for a bit. Thing is though that it's a sun dragon with a squishy mage on top. Yes, he can still do decent damage in combat, but you don't want to be there for long. Also, you don't want to open it up to too much shooting. So a dragon mage is more a conservative, support unit who likes to hunt down flank stuff or smaller units, or who joins in other combats (preferably from a flank / rear). Also, my opponent moved such that I couldn't land behind him, and moving to far forward would open me up to charges. Eltharion was okay where he was, cause most things don't want to charge through a forest, and we played it as blocking LoS for most things (if my memory serves me right).

Spirit Leech I think went for the cannon.
SpellArcher wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 11:54 am He has to motor that Furnace block forward, surely? Lord Skrolk is too expensive and too dangerous not to seek combat.
I agree that my opponents biggest mistake was not charging full steam ahead with the furnace. Especially given the short range of the Plague lore. Problem was with the forest and the building, that he had only 1 path forward really, and that would leave it by itself.
For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91

Check my writing blog for stories on the Prince of Spires and other pieces of fiction.
User avatar
Prince of Spires
Auctor Aeternitatum
Posts: 8362
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:07 pm
Location: The city of Spires

Re: 2400pts HE vs Skaven

#10 Post by Prince of Spires »

HE turn 2
Massive turn for me here.
I'm not sure if the storm banner went up. It think it did, which made my monsters stay in place more or less.
Eltarion declares a charge on the 5 poisoned wind gobladiers, who flee in terror. He redirects into the slaves, who are out of general range and fail their rerollable LD5 terror test. Eltharion completes the charge, wiping out the slaves, making it past the Stormvermin to get out of LoS.
Other movement sees me move up stuff just a bit with the units on the left and center, staying out of comfortable charge range of his units, while being in my range. On the right, the reavers move up to block the furnace and plague censer bearers. If the furnace charges them, they offer a flank to the PG.
Magic sees me get off Spirit Leech on the left plague claw catapult, who has shitty LD and no saves. It dies after a decent roll from my LD 10 character.
Shooting does about as little as you'd expect with the stormbanner up.

Skaven T2
Crucially, the storm banner ends again.
The plague censer bearers charge the reavers, while the furnace stays in place. As does the rest of the army.
Magic and shooting does little, other than get 1 wound from the Sun Dragon. Crucially, the remaining catapult scatters off the table. Again.
Combat between the censer bearers and the reavers goes as expected, with all reavers dying. Though they do take out 1 cencer bearer, which is more than I'd hoped for.

Which gives:
Image
For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91

Check my writing blog for stories on the Prince of Spires and other pieces of fiction.
User avatar
Prince of Spires
Auctor Aeternitatum
Posts: 8362
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:07 pm
Location: The city of Spires

Re: 2400pts HE vs Skaven

#11 Post by Prince of Spires »

HE Turn 3
No Charges this turn.
Frostheart and Dragon Prince fly over the Skaven line to their back line, to threaten the rear of most of the Skaven units. The rest of the army stays in place, waiting patiently.
Magic and shooting doesn't do much.
There are no combats.

Skaven Turn 3
The plague censer bearers charge the PG, who are happy to hold.
The Stormvermin march forward, not wanting to take two monsters to the rear. The Clanrats move more conservatively, more or less hiding from the monsters in the forest while protecting the furnaces flank.
Magic and shooting takes a few wounds off here and there, nothing major. The main thing is that the remaining catapult again achieves nothing.
In combat, the PG lose 2 models, while wiping out the censor bearers. They stay in place, staring down the furnace.

Which gives
Image
For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91

Check my writing blog for stories on the Prince of Spires and other pieces of fiction.
User avatar
Prince of Spires
Auctor Aeternitatum
Posts: 8362
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:07 pm
Location: The city of Spires

Re: 2400pts HE vs Skaven

#12 Post by Prince of Spires »

HE turn 4
The SH unit charges the Stormvermin, as does the Frostheart. Eltharion charges the Jezails. PG charge the furnace unit, since they don't want to take any impact hits.
Dragon Mage moves to the rear of the furnace unit. Archers move off the hill to protect the PG flank and potentially join in on the fun next turn (they do pretty decently against clanrats in combat...).
Magic I fireball the clanrats, who take a bunch of wounds. Shooting doesn't do much.
Combat goes about as well as can be expected. Stormvermin get decimated, break from combat and flee. The SH restrain, while the phoenix pursues, catches and destroys them. Eltharion goes to town on the Jezails, taking them all out. The PG combat goes surprisingly well. I only lose 2 PG, while killing a whole bunch of rats. He holds (I think the thing is immune to psychology).

At this point it's late and my opponent concedes. I've only lost the reavers, and his remaining combat power is about to be charged by at least 1 dragon, and probably a SH unit. I've still got 2 more monsters if the furnace needs more grinding down. Or Eltharion can simply mop up the other Jezzails unit and the catapult for some easy points. If I don't want to, the furnace is not touching any more of my units after all, and I'm far enough ahead to not need to risk it.

In conclusion, it was a fun game, which will probably end up being my last 8th edition game, with TOW now out. I will say, I miss my ASF rerolls to hit... Those were really broken and added so much reliability to HE.
For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91

Check my writing blog for stories on the Prince of Spires and other pieces of fiction.
User avatar
TyrrenAzureblade
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:55 pm
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: 2400pts HE vs Skaven

#13 Post by TyrrenAzureblade »

Most excellent report, that was great to follow along with. I just played a 3k point game of High Elves vs Empire, and I wish I had documented it because it'll probably also be my last 8th game for a while. I wish they had kept some form of ASF rerolls for High Elves, like making Ithilmar Weapons an army wide rule that affected any weapon, not just hand weapons, or rerolling 1s if your modified initiative were higher than the enemy unit you're hitting. Hope to see some of your TOW reports here, and glory to Ulthuan!
User avatar
Prince of Spires
Auctor Aeternitatum
Posts: 8362
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:07 pm
Location: The city of Spires

Re: 2400pts HE vs Skaven

#14 Post by Prince of Spires »

I enjoy writing them. It's a fun way to relive the battle a bit and wonder about all the right and wrong moves. Getting insight from others helps me improve.

I think in TOW combat has gotten less bloody across the board, which means it makes sense that the reroll is gone. Even Itilmar Weapons rerolling 1's would be very strong. Especially for SM with their WS6 and I7 in the first round of combat. They would absolutely murder any non-elite R&F models they came into contact with. Anything below I4 goes after you, even on the charge. And WS2 hits on 2+ already, which would make you miss 1 in every 36 attacks with the reroll. And most of the other stuff is hit on 3+.

With the ASF reroll, I've had cases where my PG would hit with 16 out of their 16 attacks, where most units could expect to hit only with half of theirs. Having the fight in 3 ranks made them amazing fighters. I occasionally felt bad for my Skaven or TK opponent, when I would roll to hit, pick up any 1's and 2's and just roll them again...
For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91

Check my writing blog for stories on the Prince of Spires and other pieces of fiction.
Post Reply