The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

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SpellArcher
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1681 Post by SpellArcher »

Andros123 wrote:Also I consider HE to be one of the few races, that can actually make a competitive balanced list.
My WE experience supports this. The lack of a stand up and fight unit makes archers/fast cav just the best. Guys like Thomas Munk and Tom Robinson have had some joy with EG-stars plus support but how balanced that is and how effective all-comers in the final analysis, are open questions.

I too query the lack of Book here Seredain. Was it just to save 10pts?

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Seredain
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1682 Post by Seredain »

So, inevitably, with the site broken (what happened there?), I bugger off for a few months and then look what happens! 8th finishes and we have a whole new game come through the door. So I thought I’d sign off on the old list and welcome in my first draft for Age of Sigmar. I can only apologise to those helpful souls above for failing to get back to them – this is the first time I’ve logged on since my last post. Chiefly this was due, first, to Ulthuan going down, but also an enormous disinclination to sit in front of a computer screen having spent all day, every day, sitting in front of a computer screen at work.

Happily, I am currently enjoying a lovely holiday in Majorca and so am far less inclined to pick up my laptop and smash it against a wall before reading a book - or anything not on a screen (don't you find it makes your eyes go funny, after a while?). In fact, I've had an itch to finish the 8th Edition story of the army, and the poolside is as good a place to sit and type as any.

When we last met, I was in the middle of a tournament. I’ll speed quickly through those games:

My penultimate game was against white lion star elves with multi light-casters plus anti-heroes loremaster, a frost phoenix and MSU cavalry with a couple of bolt throwers. Things started cageily, albeit my long range shooting pinged off his bolters quickly (partly thanks to a 36” fireball from the loremaster), and his frosty failed a charge into one of my own machines. My firebase was protected by the phoenix guard, who I knew could take a weakened lion unit, and the centre ground was held by my helms plus BSB. As his MSU units started to be whittled down, things looked under control, but then a failed panic test by the helms, on re-rolled 10 no less, saw them run off the board and totally abdicate control of the centre of the field - then I was in trouble. Somehow, through judicious use of my ranged attacks and a tight deployment to discourage the frosty from running amok, I clawed points back, in particular by throwing my prince and loremaster out of their units to carve up MSU silver helms on the right whilst the frosty was stuck on my left. These heroes then ran into the white lions to start assassinating characters – that unit being much reduced by bolter fire. Unfortunately, one disastrous round of combat saw my loremaster killed by 5 lion attacks and my prince wounded twice by the enemy loremaster, whilst a reaver charge in the rear went disastrously wrong and saw me lose, not gain, combat res. Simultaneously, the phoenix guard had failed a soft charge to clean up the lions and secure victory. This was too much for one round of combat. My prince fled, but escaped, and I went down by something like 11 to 9. A good plan gone wrong, and a fun game. Catching frosties is difficult for my army (sorry, was difficult), but once again a flyer had been forced by tight deployment to stay out of the action for fear of getting pinned and swamped, so it was at this moment that I decided the featherfoe torc on my 2.5 list was not really necessary. By contrast, I'd been impressed by the Sword of Anti-heroes on my opponent’s loremaster, so quickly resolved a new build for my 2.5 BSB. Apart from that I learned little - subject to a rather large bum-fudge from Mistress Fortune, I think I have the measure of white lion-based high elf armies. Phoenix guard, ranged spam, archers and fast combat characters do well against them – they suffer hugely from slow movement and a lack of ASF once the ranged war is lost.

My last game was against a light-based Empire list with stank, two cannons, double demis, big block of halbs, skirmishing archers, wizards, warrior priest, walter – the usual. As a match-up, this is one of the harder ones. I say this with no hint of whinging – I can take these lists – but conditions need to be right for me to pull off big wins. Specifically, I need to do real damage at range in order to neutralise the steam tank as a serious threat – otherwise he can pin one of my two main units, especially the phoenix guard, down – and its these who I really want pushing into the halbs whilst my magic, machines and knights run down the demis. Similarly, in my favour, Empire finds it very difficult to take big points off me unless I run straight into the jaws of the trap to find myself getting pummelled by banishments and cannonballs, then pinned by the stank and overwhelmed by a halb-demi counter-charge (I learned that lesson the hard way from my first game against this kind of list, and I wasn’t about to repeat it the mistake). If I don’t run immediately into 24” range of the walter, however, the Empire bubble can’t do its work – and these sorts of lists are in my experience, reluctant to go on the offensive.

And so it proved this game. I needed to plink off the cannons with arrows and put wounds on the steam tank with bolts and searing doom, and my opponent needed to wallop me with his war machines and magic before deciding whether to commit with his demigryphs. Without inflicting damage at range, I would not commit to the attack, and neither would he. But, in the event, both our shooting and magic phases were duds – throughout the game. He took some bolt throwers and the reavers, I took a cannon with archers and a unit of demis with the character-led helms (Hand of Glory for M10 and +2 WS being most welcome). His army looked worse than mine, by the end of it, but there is very little to say to say about this game other than it was a stand-off. I mullered the halbs, but they simply hid behind a house (buildings make Empire turtles so much harder to crack). His stank, having lost no wounds to dud searing dooms and bolts, pinned my phoenix guard, and both units stayed there (the loremaster’s ogre blade not doing its duty this time), chatting or something. Draw.

Epilogue

So what became of the 8th Cav Prince list? Albeit it had only been 2200 points, I learned a lot from Firestorm 4s, finally, about the usefulness of the sword of anti-heroes. By this point, the phoenix guard block had become the solid heart of the army and, with the sword-toting BSB (a decent option event against cannons, since he could bounce two balls), liberated the helms and prince from anti-deathstar duty to use their speed in more imaginative and useful ways. If anything could crack the no-sword 3++ guard, it was a genuine multi-character deathstar. For those moments when I wanted to go full bus with the helms, massed characters were, again, the biggest threat. And after several games against lists with one or multiple flying monsters, I found that I’d had fewer problems than I’d feared. The fact was that even the archers, being deployed in numbers, would hold on steadfast for long enough for me to bring in support against flyers which lacked steadfast-breaking numbers of attacks. Having a unit of real size was very important to their role not only as ranged offense, but as ranked-up infantry. Indeed, ranged dominance combined with ranked-up defence and quickly organised counter-attacks had seen me secure an extremely high success rate (total, after that last high elf game) against lists with flying monsters/characters. Deathstar lists, particularly ogres (helms being quite poor against ironguts and ironblasters), struck me as more of a problem. Another potential problem was death magic, since I had relatively few true wards on my characters. Magic-heavy ranged lists also posed a constant threat to the helms-as-bodyguard so, although less potent, swapping the power stone on the archmage to a scroll of shielding felt like a safer all-comers choice. Finally, I wanted the Reaver Bow back. I long ago decided that the Bow + Potion cavalry noble was too fiddly to use, left the noble too unprotected and offered no support to the prince. However, the bow itself remained excellent value for the points, added extra dominance in shooting wars and still allowed room for a lance, enchanted shield, luckstone and OTS for combat duties and prince support. Depending on the opposition, the noble could either act as a front-line companion to the prince, with the bow as a useful bonus for early turns stand-offs or even stand-and-shoot duties against other cavalry, or else he could act as the new quarterback character (see page 56), whilst the BSB was engaged in serious combat and leadership duties with my frontline units.

So, I made my final list amendment of 8th Edition, and finally stuck with it all the way until 9th hit. The list was:

Prince - Dragon Armour, Shield, Barded Elven Steed, Giant Blade, Dragon Helm, Dawnstone, Ironcurse Icon.
290 points

Archmage - Level 4, High Magic, Talisman of Preservation, Scroll of Shielding, Ring of Khaine's Fury.
305 points

Loremaster - Ogre Blade, Merwyrm Shield, Dispel Scroll.
310 points

Battle Standard Bearer - Dragon Armour, Barded Elven Steed, Sword of Anti-Heroes, Charmed Shield, Golden Crown, Potion of Foolhardiness.
170 points

Noble – Lance, Dragon Armour, Barded Elven Steed, Reaver Bow, Enchanted Shield, Luckstone, Other Trickster’s Shard.
151 points

11 Silver Helms - High Helm, Musician, Standard Bearer, Shields.
283 points

24 Archers - Hawkeye, Musician, Standard Bearer.
270 points

5 Reaver Knights
80 points

19 Phoenix Guard - Keeper, Musician, Standard Bearer, Razor Standard.
360 points

4 Repeater Bolt Throwers
280 points

= 2499 points

I should say, in enormously late reply to SpellArcher and Andros, that the lack of Book of Hoeth was simply down to the fact that I wanted to spam magic missiles with the Ring of Fury. This was one of the best ways to spend a (risk free) single dice and, along with the loremaster's spell variety and the archmage's access to basic Soul Quench, gave me a huge amount of damage output in the magic phase. Compare the cost of casting a large soul quench with the cost of spamming two small ones - the latter can be done much more cheaply - although I always had the option to throw 6d6 hits when I wished. It also allowed me to choose other spells for the archmge, where occasion dictated, without losing altogether this ability to throw hits with him. All together, this was much more important to me than the extra casting power of the Book. Partly because my army's existence depended on its ability to control the movement phase and win shooting wars against massed-missile armies, especially skirmishers who could avoid combat with the phoenix guard - making the annihilation of light troops absolutely essential for the list's all-comers credentials. Further, I'd taken the loremaster, which might mean only casting 1-2 spells per turn with the archmage. That would, of course, mean I got much less benefit from the Book's re-roll. As for the Book in defence, where it is most valuable (since the archmage would always be the dispeller of choice), the Scroll of Shielding could effectively eat more dice in a round (much as a dispel scroll would), than the Book would manage on a crucial turn. Not as potent over time, but a decent prop given the extra damage output and tactical options given me by the Ring.

And, d’you know what? It all worked. Alas, for lack of time to write, I took no pictures and produced no reports. But finally I’d found a list I was totally happy with. And it showed – even ogres were somehow, finally, much less of a threat as, with another top-notch combat character in the form of the BSB and that extra pip of shooting, I could control the match ups much more easily. The prince was liberated to pursue specialist targets with his knights (mournfang etc), whilst the anti-heroes BSB finally allowed me to march full-face toward the ironguts with the phoenix guard, giving me much better cover for my archers and machines and allowing me to bring the ironblasters into range of my arrows and (particularly) magic – something I’d traditionally struggled to do whilst standing off against ogre gutstars in the past (although shifting casters back into the archers was usually a good idea when the hellheart was there).

Finally, 9th loomed, and I thought I’d best take some shots of what looked like my last game. Appropriately, it was against dark elves. A huge unit of shades with Hellebron, and a bunch of MSU units including dark riders, warlocks, flying BSB etc. I castled, drew the enemy into a hasty advance with my advantage at 30+ inches, and then opened up with massed magic missiles. Arcane unforging saw me pick off the BSB, and massed bolts and arrows withered the (very dangerous) shade star. It wasn’t an especially close game, but my tight deployment did at least allow for a final few decent photographs of the 8th Edition cavalry prince and his army.

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The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

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Seredain
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1683 Post by Seredain »

The Cavalry Prince in the Age of Sigmar

Well, first off, I’m annoyed that only dragonlords get access to a uniquely good sword. There, I've got that off my chest.

But aside from that, we have good news. I’m very grateful that the leadership abilities of princes make them excellent choices for combined arms lists – re-rolled hits and the phoenix helm (sorry, standard), are both excellent. Enchanted shield combines extremely well with Crystal Shield to create a rock-solid model, and our new loremasters’ hand of glory makes the Enchanted Polearm an excellent weapon for combat (though, in the early turns, you’ll be wanting to use this on your bolt throwers). More importantly, taking smaller characters like this provides you with excellent synergies compared with what our monster choices can manage.

But, before we get to such questions, we need to pick a points/comp system. Presumably because GW intend to release a totally new pan-elf army book in due course, they’ve given us rules and no points costs. I expect (hope?) that, in line with 40K, points will return with the new army books. Without any such grading, army selection remains a total can of worms for us players who want to make sure that the army opposite is of roughly equal strength to ours. Luckily the Scene has responded quickly and, at this stage, the most influential comp (in the UK at least) is Mo’s Indy Comp, which uses a simple Pool Choice system to roughly grade unit choices and, also, impose a cap of 40 shots per army (based on a model’s basic shots, excluding special abilities, with bolt throwers counting as 3 each). Under the comp, you pick a force of 20 pool choices and deploy them however you like down to a minimum number of troops per drop – typically 10 for infantry, 5 for cavalry and 3 for monstrous cavalry. Each scroll choice buys you 3/5/10 models for X pool choices. When it comes to characters, ridden monsters are expensive (4.5 for a dragonlord), and non-monstrous characters are cheap (Princes, loremasters, seahelms and mages are 1 pool choice each). So, although your prince can no longer rely on a Look Out Sir save to stop war machines from blowing him away (alas, only Annointeds have access to the old ward saves), you can at least take comfort from the fact that he cost you less than 10 archers (1.5 pool choices), and that he can use his new abilities to impact the game whilst staying at a safe distance. Similarly, although massed archer fire is much more dangerous to a 4+rr prince than the old 1+rr build, aside from armour buffs you can, at least, stay out of range of shots much more easily now that the common-garden longbow only has a range of 20”. Your own archers can, meanwhile, march into the jaws of death with much more impunity now that you can shield them with another unit to the front without having to worry about tricky 8th Ed line of sight issues. It’s a brave new world and, for all the complaints we will no doubt see about ‘dumbing down’, the new game does at least give you complete freedom to create your own army formations and use them much more intuitively than was possible before.

I’m terrible with computers, so I’ll leave someone competent to track down the current Indy Comp PDF. Suffice to say, for now, that I have drafted the following list and, so far, played one game with it (“PC” = Pool Choice). All units get their choice of upgrades (items, command groups etc) for free – consider it part of their basic kit. As such, the game is more standardised than before, albeit you can deploy your troops choices together or in separate groups (of minimum size) between games as you see fit. The list I used or my first game is:

Prince (General)
- Enchanted Polearm, Enchanted Shield, Phoenix Helm (Totem), Steed – 1 PC

Seahelm
- Sword, Enchanted Shield, Seadragon Pennant – 1 PC

Loremaster – 1 PC

Loremaster – 1 PC

20 Phoenix Guard – 3 PC

20 Archers – 3 PC

10 Dragon Princes – 3 PC

5 Silver Helms – 1 PC

5 Reavers – 1 PC

2 Bolt Throwers – 5 PC (yes, they’re insanely expensive under current comp – a Slann being 4.5 and a Hellcannon 5 PCs – I can only dream they get cheaper).

Shots: 36/40
PCs: 20/20

Synergies

Many of you will already have spotted that bonuses offered by spells and characters, at least for our army, make no distinction between shooting and close combat attacks. You will also have noticed that missile units can shoot, on their turn, even if engaged in combat. On the other hand, the movement advantage of cavalry over infantry is now much more distinct and, with the potential that you and your opponent can get two turns in a row, real combat troops remain important to shield your ranged power and to take and hold objectives (the shot cap, in any case, forces you to take something other than full bowlines). With that in mind, I have here a three-layer army which can either play to win the shooting war with massed shots (archers can double fire once, reavers usually get 3 shots per model, characters offer decent buffs), combined with a cavalry assault on enemy war machines; or else tackle a combat-heavy army by pinning select units with cavalry and infantry whilst firing magic and missiles over the top (and indeed into combat). Such is the freedom to target anything within range in Age of Sigmar, that combining your arms into one combat is now more possible, and beneficial, than ever.

The characters, meanwhile, are simple to use. The prince provides leadership re-rolls and Hit re-rolls, before engaging an existing combat in a flank, where he’ll face fewer attacks (more on this to come). The seahelm sits with the infantry and ranged units to give them +1 to Wound, as do the loremasters, who cast Hand of Glory on bolt throwers in the early turns, before dedicating their efforts to combat units once battle is joined. The knights, relatively well armoured and hard to shift given that battleshock tests are determined by models lost, not wounds suffered, act as a forward screen when they’re not engaged in anti-machine duty – their speed allows them to keep particular units at a distance much better than the (harder) heavy infantry can manage. The prince and his re-rolls stiffening their spine long enough to join combat himself, or for the phoenix guard to come in, all the while your ranged attacks making their contribution. Judicious use of charge angles, to minimise attacks back, is important for combo-charges (a big deal in the new game, given that you and your opponent alternate attacks in each turn), as is manipulating the reach of your (and your enemy’s) combat weapons.

These are the principles of the list – next we’ll look at the details. The battery on this laptop is dying, so that is upcoming. I’ll deal with army and unit formations after my next game, which I can use to take demonstrative pictures (thankfully the game is much simpler rules-wise, so easier to report). So, first, I’ll take a look at how you can use and abuse weapon reach in the context of the new combat rules, further to a recent email chat with my old colleague Dom Pemberton.

No doubt I need to spellcheck the hell out of this thing, but the battery icon is flashing so, for now, adios amigos!

Thanks for reading,

Seredain.
The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

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Cinncinatti
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1684 Post by Cinncinatti »

Hi Seredain,

This list looks good. The Sea Helm and the Loremaster are great force multipliers for the High Elves, I've been including them in my lists as well for the exact same purposes.

Quick question; given the overall speed of your army, do you see purposeful retreats being a big part of your strategy? If so, how do you envision that working?

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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1685 Post by Seredain »

Defending with Knights

Cinncinatti,

Thanks. Absolutely this is one way I envisage using these units, in particular the helms and reavers. It’s worth making a brief note of my first game in this context. It was against ogres, fielding a formation of stonehorn (charges hard, takes half damage), thundertusk (now complete with Bond villain freeze ray of death), two units of 3 mournfang and one block of 9 ogre bulls (my opponent choosing to deploy these together so as to get the first turn). I had the list above. This was my first game of AoS so I wasn’t quite sure what to expect from the enemy units, but it was clear from the off that the way the game treats movement has changed completely: no adverse leadership effects for retreating, and no pursuit moves or overruns for your opponent in the event of a retreat. My opponent deployed (from my point of view), mournfang, stonehorn, thundertusk, mournfang, bulls. I deployed reavers, phoenix guard with archers behind and, behind them, the bolters and infantry characters, then 5 dragon princes with prince behind, 5 dragon princes, 5 helms.

Since my infantry centre with have its hands full in the centre, it was clear that I was out-matched on the left flank. So, after my opponent advanced full throttle with everything he had, I moved the reavers out forward and further to the left (how fantastic their extra 2d6 movement is), and drew some attention from the left-hand mournfang by firing 15 arrows into them. The thing was that, if my opponent wished to charge the reavers, he’d have to move away from the rest of my army. Since their shots would have quickly become a threat to his capital monsters, he did so, and only killed 3 of the 5 (5 reavers now have 10 wounds, have a more reliable 5+ save and are better able to pass leadership tests now that the psychological impact of wounds suffered has been replaced by casualties lost – they are, therefore, a much tougher nut to crack than before). As it happened in this game, I chose to stick with the combat on my turn so as to put more shots and attacks into the mournfang unit since, elsewhere, the battle was going fine. But, if my primary aim here was to draw this mournfang unit further away from the fight, now would have been the moment to retreat towards the board edge and force my opponent to follow if he wanted the unit dead (and 6 shots per turn are nothing to sniff at). Now that units can’t march, pursue or overrun, (running is much less reliable than automatic double movement, even though base movement is higher), assuming opponents don’t keep getting lucky with double-turns, it’s much harder for units stranded out of the fight to get back in good time. This combined rules-change to reliable retreats and slower average movement makes decoy retreats a good strategy.

But knights can play defensive roles in another way – by acting as forward road-blocks. In this game I was concerned not to allow the other mournfang and the two monsters to charge into my phoenix guard all at once. This was made harder by the fact that my opponent got a double turn and immediately made it in with the stonehorn. Other units failed their charges but, with my fast knights, deployed slightly forward, I was able to quickly close that gap and charge in on the right flank – charges which I’d have likely failed with infantry, giving my opponent another chance at combining against my centre (the security of which rested entirely on the phoenix guard). Simultaneously, I prevented my opponent from supporting his stonehorn quickly enough, which was duly ground out by the guard with assistance from the loremasters’ arcane bolts, and some shooting, whilst most of my shooting brought down the thundertusk in a single round (40 shots from the archers, using re-rolls from the prince and +1 to wound from the seahelm, plus a bolt thrower – ouch). The dragon princes and prince in the centre attacked the 3 mournfang there (DPs front, prince flank) and, on the right, the 5 DPs and 5 helms together were robust enough to hold the bulls for as long as I needed to clear up elsewhere and move in for the kill. So, in this instance, charging with my knight units was as much about preventing a focussed multi-charge from my opponent on the most valuable part of my army as it was going on the attack myself. Both by charging and retreating, therefore, small cavalry units have very useful defensive applications.

Thanks,

Seredain.
The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

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Cinncinatti
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1686 Post by Cinncinatti »

Seredain,

Thanks for the reply. Reavers are definitely one of the most versatile units now with their shooting and extra move. I want to use them exactly as you described, but unfortunately I've been playing Azyr Comp and they are prohibitively expensive in all but the largest games (unless brought in significant numbers). I hadn't considered Silver Helms for that role before though, so that is something I will give a try.

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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1687 Post by sparkytrypod »

nostalgic bump

anyone know if this chap plays anymore..
death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain

do an rpg personality test, im from Ireland and I get...

[CENTER][url=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/img][/url][/CENTER

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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1688 Post by SpellArcher »

No idea sadly. He looked into AoS didn’t he, guess he might be on 9th Age?

What are you playing these days Sparky?

sparkytrypod
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1689 Post by sparkytrypod »

hey SA!

playing 9th these days and started some a song of ice and fire, which is actually very good!

your good self?
death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain

do an rpg personality test, im from Ireland and I get...

[CENTER][url=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/img][/url][/CENTER

SpellArcher
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1690 Post by SpellArcher »

sparkytrypod wrote:playing 9th these days
What’s going on with 9th generally? Is it more popular in some countries than others?
sparkytrypod wrote:started some a song of ice and fire, which is actually very good!
Friend of mine’s a fan.
sparkytrypod wrote:your good self?
Painting my Orcs very slowly.

:mrgreen:

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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1691 Post by Th3_5had0w_K1ng »

sparkytrypod wrote:nostalgic bump

anyone know if this chap plays anymore..
Sad that both he and I left around the same time in 2015. Hard to believe it's been almost 4 years since playing a WH fantasy game.
"Looking into the steely eyes of his foes, Kolgar felt his blood run cold.
There was no fear upon the faces of the Elves, only ruthless determination.
With a silent prayer to Khorne, Kolgar hoped the Blood God was with him."

**RETIRED FROM WARHAMMER FANTASY 2015. END TIMES.**

SpellArcher
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1692 Post by SpellArcher »

Th3_5had0w_K1ng wrote:Hard to believe it's been almost 4 years since playing a WH fantasy game.
What are they playing now in your area dude?

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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1693 Post by Th3_5had0w_K1ng »

SpellArcher wrote:What are they playing now in your area dude?
I haven't the faintest idea. I played 40k for a while but honestly fantasy was my "once a week game" and when the local meta died... so did a lot of my interest in tabletop gaming. I've just been focusing on the career instead.

I looked into things like frostgrave, AoS, Kings of War and other game systems but it doesn't really scratch that itch I had for WHFB. Maybe I've just gotten too old to jump into other fantasy universes and appreciate them like I did when I first started as a teenager. I still have loads of minis though. I suppose that makes me a collector now instead of a tabletop gamer.
"Looking into the steely eyes of his foes, Kolgar felt his blood run cold.
There was no fear upon the faces of the Elves, only ruthless determination.
With a silent prayer to Khorne, Kolgar hoped the Blood God was with him."

**RETIRED FROM WARHAMMER FANTASY 2015. END TIMES.**

SpellArcher
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1694 Post by SpellArcher »

Th3_5had0w_K1ng wrote:Maybe I've just gotten too old to jump into other fantasy universes and appreciate them like I did when I first started as a teenager. I still have loads of minis though. I suppose that makes me a collector now instead of a tabletop gamer.
This pretty much applies to me too though I’m lucky enough to still play 8th occasionally.

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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Report

#1695 Post by Prince of Spires »

SpellArcher wrote:
Th3_5had0w_K1ng wrote:Maybe I've just gotten too old to jump into other fantasy universes and appreciate them like I did when I first started as a teenager. I still have loads of minis though. I suppose that makes me a collector now instead of a tabletop gamer.
This pretty much applies to me too though I’m lucky enough to still play 8th occasionally.
I suspect not having a regular opponent to play with plays some role in there as well. Of course the game you're playing helps. But it's also a social thing for me. And as you get older there is indeed less time to start with something new (time is wasted on the youth...).

Of course, if you're a collector then you're actually the main target audience for GW. At least according to them of course. ;)

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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1696 Post by Seredain »

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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1697 Post by Seredain »

THE SUN RISES ON AN OLD WORLD

Seredain’s eyes snapped open, his breath quick. What a terrible dream! The Mother of the Elves a dying tree root. Asuryan the Creator a mere fortune teller, a cheap trickster. Maleketh the Murderer, the true king all along! Teclis a liar beyond redemption. The Defender of Ulthuan a psychopath. Caledor’s line turned to treachery and kinslaying, who knows how. How pleasant now to breathe slowly and feel the light of the sun. To hear the birds and the gentle flap of silken canvas. The muffled but confident chatter of brothers in arms.

Beyond the camp and its watchfires, he heard too the drumbeats of the enemy. Finally he caught their stink. The World was still here, but it was still the World.


Image

Image

SMASH OF THE TITANS TOURNAMENT 2021

For this player, the centre of the World was now Worcester, a beautiful little city in the West Midlands, full of ancient buildings, cheerful people and, today, Warhammer gamers gathering for the second Smash of the Titans singles tournament. One day, three games. Let’s get into it.

For this tournament there was no comp except that cannons were restricted to causing D3+1 wounds, and that they could only hit either a monster or its rider, not both, with each shot.

My trusty prince was busy fighting incursions by greenskin hordes and the armies of the Empire (on which more here, viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70550&start=450 and to follow). For this trial of glory, then, my dragon-archmage model finally came to battle alongside some new (for me) monstrous allies. He had 3000 points to bring with him subject to the usual 8th Edition army selection rules (i.e. no grand armies).

We could take allies as rare choices, including from the monstrous arcanum. But in true elven fashion I determined that the High Elves themselves had all the tools I needed. These were as follows:

LORDS (700)

Archmage - High Magic, Level 4, Star Dragon, Talisman of Endurance, Book of Hoeth, Ironcurse Icon = 700.

HEROES (503)

Noble BSB - Lance, dragon armour, shield, barded elven steed, Banner of the World Dragon = 178.

Mage - High Magic, level 2, elven steed, Dispel Scroll, Dragonbane Gem = 160.

Mage - High Magic, Level 2, Talisman of Preservation = 165.

CORE (756)

24 Archers - Full Command = 270.
7 Silver Helms - Full Command, shields = 191.
5 Reavers - Musician, spears and bows = 105.
5 Reavers - Spears and bows = 95
5 Reavers - Spears and bows = 95

SPECIAL (420)

23 Phoenix Guard - Full Command, Razor Standard = 420.

RARE (620)

1 Frostheart Phoenix = 240.
1 Frostheart Phoenix = 240.
1 Repeater Bolt Thrower = 70.
1 Repeater Bolt Thrower = 70.

= 2,999 points

The big news for this tournament was that I could take a star dragon ridden by an archmage, normally impossible when playing with fewer points. Maximum magic and the biggest monster. Who wouldn’t want to try that?! Ironcurse Icon and Book of Hoeth would mean I could stack ward saves on him against the worst shooting. Before combat he could jump around throwing spells from positions of relative safety. Hopefully the flexibility provided by my magic phase would squeeze more utility out of this centrepiece model whilst protecting my investment.

Two level 2 mages completed a high magic phase aiming at maximum utility. High magic suffers from having one essential spell for most situations. Too few good spells at any one time and dispel priority becomes too easy for your opponent. This way I hoped that I would always have a critical mass of spells - either for combat phases or for the early shooting war. Where I didn’t need my magic to provide utility, I hoped that the massed soul quenches would compensate for a relatively subdued shooting phase. Two bolt throwers and 24 archers could cover a flank and clear harassers and doomfire warlocks, but I couldn’t expect to win real shootouts.

A big phalanx of phoenix guard deployed with a level 2 of high magic would be the army’s pivot point. Next, a mobile lance of 9 cavalry - 7 silver helms + the World Dragon BSB and mage to act, in essence, as another monster and a mobile source of stubborn for the dragon. Against greater daemons (etc) it was my ace unit but for far fewer points than a full cavalry bus. This, in turn, allowed for a larger reaver core which freed up more points for the double phoenix in Rare.

The plan was to move fast, weaken units with magic/missiles and/or halt them with reavers, then smash in hard for some quick-win combats on the flanks before helping my phalanx punch through the centre. The phoenix guard and archers would be my rock and everything else a deadly hammer. A stubborn star dragon with Book of Hoeth and ward saves felt strong. Let’s see if it turned out that way!

Game 1 against Chaos Dwarfs is coming up. Comments welcome!

Great to be back in the saddle.

Best,

Seredain.

Image
The dragon cometh
Last edited by Seredain on Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:11 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1698 Post by MasterOfNone »

Seredain not playing a SH bus... interesting.
This is going to be good, you've whetted my appetite.
Have you ever posted more close-up pictures of your miniatures?
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1699 Post by Seredain »

@MasterOfNone,

Thank you for the prompt - I’ll take some. As an introduction, please see the edited post above!

Cheers,

S
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1700 Post by SpellArcher »

Seredain wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:50 am
Seredain’s eyes snapped open
Morpheus wrote:Welcome...to the real world.
8)
Seredain wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:50 am
Game 1 against Chaos Dwarfs is coming up. Comments welcome!
So your foe seems to have a Hellcannon, a Magma Cannon and one other war machine. Two blocks of Chaos Dwarfs and two of Hobgoblins plus some Wolf Riders. Interested to see which characters he's rocking. Is that thing in front of the ruins a K'daai Destroyer?! He seems a little spread out to me, I don't like that CD block out there with nothing but gobbos for company. Also, that's quite a lot of HE cavalry.
MasterOfNone wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:37 pm
Seredain not playing a SH bus... interesting.
That's what we thought.

:wink:

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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1701 Post by MasterOfNone »

I have to confess I have no idea whatsoever about what the Chaos Dwarfs are like.
My knowledge beyond HE, O&G and Dwarfs is risible.
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1702 Post by Prince of Spires »

Welcome back! Great to see you woke up and realised it was all a bad dream ;)

An archmage on a stardragon! You know, I never knew that was an option. To be fair, the book has only been out 9 years or so... I always thought they could only get a sun- or moondragon. That was 7th ed I guess. He should be fun, though I guess he'll suffer a bit the same issue as a dragonmage, in that the mage will want to stay out of combat, but the dragon definitely wants to be in it. Star vs. Sun dragon is a huge difference though, to the point where the mage is almost a bonus. I'm definitely curious to see how it goes.

The rest of the list looks fun. It hits hard, though it might run into trouble against lists which can grind it down (not a lot to deal with steadfast other that killing as much as possible) or which can ground the army (like stormbanner skaven). It makes it perhaps a bit less all-commers than a cavalry prince list, but don't let that stop you. As you said, it's a list with a single anvil (though PG make for an awesome one) and a lot of hammers.

Having both lvl2 mages on high is an interesting choice. Did you consider giving one or both of them a different lore, or is the ward that important? The Metal and beast signatures add a lot to many HE lists, and giving both of them shadow could have been an option as well.

As for the Chaos Dwarf battle, it looks like you got the better end of the deployment. Terrain helped you here as well I think. But the three buildings can help mitigate the cannon fire a bit I think by hiding your monsters. And his army is too spread out. With that tower on the left, you should be able to keep the left 2 blocks out of the game for 3 turns at least, maybe even 4. They would take 2 at a minimum to get round it, and they can be fairly easily blocked by the left most reaver unit. This should leave you free to deal with the right flank with your fast units, while the PG hold the center and you magic away. Both Tempest and Convocation should do well against those blocks (I'm assuming you're getting both with 8 High magic spells). It should let you put a lot of pressure on the dwarf player.
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1703 Post by SpellArcher »

MasterOfNone wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:23 pm
I have to confess I have no idea whatsoever about what the Chaos Dwarfs are like.
Few people have the book because it was huge, damn expensive and not habitually stocked in GW shops. It’s awesome though, so atmospheric and a great credit to it’s author, the late Alan Bligh. The dwarfs are basically dwarfs, the gobbos are pretty much gobbos. The Hellcannon is the WoC Hellcannon, a Monster that shoots like a S5 Stone Thrower. Magma Cannon is a medium-ranged, Flaming template weapon. The Destroyer is a half Daemonic Monster with awesome stats but Frenzied and with Flaming attacks. Usual load-out at 2500 (but this is 3000 of course) is Stubborn and hard to kill BSB, Lvl 4 with strong choice of Lores and Lvl 2. The Wizards also count as Engineers, so that Hellcannon could re-roll it’s Scatter dice for example.

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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1704 Post by Seredain »

Chaps,

Wonderful comments so far - thank you! I cannot reply directly just yet because it would give the game away...
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1705 Post by MasterOfNone »

Seredain wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:12 pm
@MasterOfNone,

Thank you for the prompt - I’ll take some. As an introduction, please see the edited post above!

Cheers,

S
Fabulous, lovely miniatures too.
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1706 Post by Seredain »

GAME ONE – CHAOS DWARFS

Magic: The dragon archmage (DAM?) got Arcane Unforging, Walk Between Worlds, Apotheosis and Drain Magic (for Ash Storm). Footmage rolled Soul Quench and Hand of Glory, and Cavmage got Soul Quench and Drain Magic.

My opponent rolled some direct damage spells and Ash Storm (the one I was worried about). His first level 2 engineer took Death and got Spirit Leach and Aspect of the Dreadknight. His other level 2, of Fire, got Fireball and Flaming Sword.

Deployment

The Map was as you see above. A relatively open board with a large hill in my deployment zone and a couple of buildings in the middle of the field which my monsters could use to leapfrog through no-man´s land. The evil dwarfs opposite had a wood, a ruin and a 2-storey building to play with.

Opposite my left flank stood 30 goblins, 23 chaos dwarf infantry with hand weapons and 3+ saves, 5x5 with a BSB and the Level 4 caster general. Then another 30 goblins hiding behind the central tower. Facing my centre stood a rear-ward magma cannon (i.e. a str 5 flame cannon), 10 wolf riders carrying a hobgoblin hero (masquerading as spider riders), and another house giving shelter to the death engineer. He stood near a doom rocket. Guarding that stood 19 fireglaive dwarfs led by the fire engineer (4x5). Then the big boy K’dai destroyer. I managed to get my World Dragon cavalry lance close enough to block him off. In the corner stood the hell cannon.

I deployed all my infantry and cavalry facing the open space in the middle of the board. I wanted to dominate this space in any case, so I deployed these units early to throw down a gauntlet to my opponent. If I deployed in one corner, he could deploy in the opposite corner and shoot me all day. So there was no point in hiding my intent here. I went front and center, and dared him to face me. His slightly scattered deployment was the result – he didn’t fancy taking a fight in the center.

This made it easier to attack his army in pieces but harder to get to all his war machines. The flyers, as a result, deployed left (dragon and one phoenix, to smash the enemy general’s unit) and right (other phoenix).

FYI – all terrain features were considered to be of infinite height.

He could also move depleted infantry units into a nearby building, and hide from my thunderstomps. I’d been cheated of kills this way before! Also his general’s unit, if it held, could receive aid from flank-attacks by the big goblin blocks from either side. I’d want to win combats quickly.

In the vanguard phase, my opponent went first and moved his wolf rider block, with hero, up to the tower, facing my archers. All my fast cavalry moved up aggressively to threaten any gaps and crowd around those war machines if possible.

HE Turn 1

I got lucky and won the roll-off for first turn even though my opponent had the +1. His dwarfs must have suddenly felt like the Thin Red Line. But would they hold?

My opponent’s vanguard with the wolf riders had opened a gap to his magma cannon. The right-most reavers swept into this gap and threatened an easy charge on the magma cannon next turn. I didn’t bother to check if the wolf rider had a counter-charge on. The second unit of reavers waited behind the tower, offering a flank charge to the nearest goblin block, which they couldn’t complete because of the building. Hehe. If the wolf riders charged the first reaver unit, at least this reaver unit could counter-charge. The left-most reaver unit hovered in-front of the enemy infantry line. My dragon and left-bird moved up to the tower, the former into spell range and threatening a good-average charge on the enemy general’s unit.

To the centre and right: the phoenix guard moved up enough to cover space but leaving a gap for the archers to shoot through. They advanced 5” and prepared to fire (if the threat is acceptable – aim to be in close range of good targets by mid-game!). To the right, the silver helms moved into charge range of the Destroyer, sheltering behind the house from the fireglaives. On the right, the phoenix moved up cautiously. Attacking the hell cannon would be a two-move job. Moving up too far now would only see the phoenix charged by the K’dai Destroyer.

In the magic phase, I got a comfortable 8v5 phase after one channel. First I four-diced a large Walk Between Worlds and got a great roll – my opponent let it go. My left-hand phoenix teleported to the right flank of the enemy, out of line of sight, facing in. This spell is the Balls when you’ve got flyers! Next I tried to unforge the enemy BSB. To my surprise, he wasn’t a tank – he had a banner which gave ItP, and maybe something else, to the surrounding greenskins (Banner of Slavery, I think it’s called). I killed the banner but failed to wound the BSB on a 3+. +2 ward on the DAM gave the archmage a 3++ and the dragon a 4++ against war machines. This made me happy.

Because of cover, bolt throwers had no good targets. I bagged a single chaos dwarf from the general’s unit with one (or that was possibly the left-most reavers), and the other pinged a wolf. The archers performed better and killed 4 more riders. The reavers bagged one more but the goblins passed their panic test.

CD Turn 1

The goblin riders charged my attacking reavers in the rear. Ouch. The Destroyer charged, and failed to reach, the silver helms. which left the field like so:

Image

The CD general’s unit then charged the left-most reavers, who fled. The enemy goblin block facing my far-left was rail-roaded by my left-hand phoenix, so reformed. (No units, unless charging, can move within 1" of another unit or impassible terrain. Use this!).

Shooting. The hell cannon shot at the nearest frostheart, which seemed sensible enough. The shot missed. The death rocket splashed the silver helms after the Death engineer allowed it to re-roll a misfire, but it still failed to kill a model. The magma cannon shot at but failed to reach the phoenix guard. In a 3v2 magic phase, my opponent failed to cast Ash Storm on the dragon. I don’t remember if his roll failed or if he was stopped by a Book of Hoeth dispel. I think the latter. Either way, I didn’t need my scroll.

So basically a free first turn for the High Elves. Not a bad start.
Last edited by Seredain on Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1707 Post by Seredain »

Now, let's have some tea and biscuits in the midst of the action, and turn to some of your comments:

SA - thank you for brainstorming this list with me! And for opening the door to the Magic Star Dragon! I didn't know archmages could ride them either...

MoN - thanks against for your kind comments about my army. Most of the helms and archers, and the dragon, were painted by an unknown artist on eBay. As you can imagine I was happy to give these pieces a new home. The problem was, my old army had been blue and white, so I had to slowly change the whole army scheme! But my elves always had a forest connection, so it made sense. The new phoenix guard were painted by a very talented Italian chap called Giulio. Anyone interested in a commission, let me know and I'll give you his eBay name. He's a very nice man, and a bit of a painting genius. My friend Rupert painted the right-hand phoenix. He's getting into the commission game as well. I'm lazy. But I plead the New Baby defence!

SA has given a helpful analysis of Chaos Dwarfs above. Much like dwarfs, they can kill you with their shooting - which is basically defined by its
Prince of Spires wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:06 am
Welcome back! Great to see you woke up and realised it was all a bad dream ;)

An archmage on a stardragon! You know, I never knew that was an option....
Thanks PoS!

Neither did I know about the dragonmage of arch-awesome! As mentioned above, SpellArcher told me. Then I made that noise that Ron Burgundy made when he saw Veronica Corningstone for the first time. "Ooooooh".

Tactically, I can say for now that I hoped the magic would allow this dragon model to earn some points before combat. I was wary of throwing out my most expensive model alone, against opponents with 3000 points to spend. at least I could use it has a spell platform before those opportune charges came up. The mage also assisted with dragon's big problem: high strength attacks/shooting. Ward saves on a star dragon, plus Apotheosis, felt like a powerful combination.
Prince of Spires wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:06 am
Having both lvl2 mages on high is an interesting choice. Did you consider giving one or both of them a different lore, or is the ward that important? The Metal and beast signatures add a lot to many HE lists, and giving both of them shadow could have been an option as well.
I went back and forth on this. I chose High, in the end, because I worried that against dark elf and/or skink cloud lists, I could see my monsters surrounded and shot/magicked to death. Against armour I had 3 monsters, bolt throwers, and the always reliable phoenix guard. What I lacked was some machine gun attacks. These would also be essential for depleting high wound low armour units which could otherwise bounce my monsters - large infantry units, or Beasts of Nurgle. Finally, I'd learned to fear Life Magic deathstars. The best way to deal with these? Spamming Drain Magic.

I do think you have a point about putting a metal mage in the helms. I've gone back and forth on this caster before and will definitely try it with this list. But you need a big phase to get the best out of both Book of Hoeth and Searing Doom. Do you 6 dice a spell with your level 2, or protect your archmage with a trickle High phase? Here, I felt the latter would be more important.
Prince of Spires wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:06 am
As for the Chaos Dwarf battle, it looks like you got the better end of the deployment. Terrain helped you here as well I think. But the three buildings can help mitigate the cannon fire a bit I think by hiding your monsters. And his army is too spread out. With that tower on the left, you should be able to keep the left 2 blocks out of the game for 3 turns at least, maybe even 4. They would take 2 at a minimum to get round it, and they can be fairly easily blocked by the left most reaver unit. This should leave you free to deal with the right flank with your fast units, while the PG hold the center and you magic away. Both Tempest and Convocation should do well against those blocks (I'm assuming you're getting both with 8 High magic spells). It should let you put a lot of pressure on the dwarf player.
No Convocation or Tempest, but looking good so far! I've made some comments on deployment in the opening section of my report, above.
Last edited by Seredain on Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1708 Post by MasterOfNone »

Skill and luck combined made for an excellent start, let's see how it develops.
As for your old army, whatever happened to it, did the dog chew it?
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1709 Post by Seredain »

A correction. In CD Turn 1, the wolf riders had charged my central reavers and ran them down. The elves took down two or three more riders before the end.

HE Turn 2

My dragonmage lord and left-bird charged the enemy general’s unit, front and flank. The dragon touched the sorcerer lord and the phoenix went after the BSB. My middle reavers charged the rear of the wolf riders. The silver helms charged the Destroyer, singing their battle songs. The daemon hesitated. Why weren’t these mere horsemen more afraid? The right-hand phoenix shadowed the knights - ready either to swoop upon the hell cannon or, should they attack my cavalry, the fireglaives.

The phoenix guard marched at full pace towards the fireglaives, trying to cover the flank of the cavalry, but behind the pace. I could perhaps have advanced them further last turn. The left-hand reavers rode infront of the central goblin block to fend off a flank charge against the phoenix guard. (There was a lot of static res piled up in this unit - a flank attack against my 3-rank phalanx could prove disastrous!). The archers continued their gliding advance into the middle of the field, arrows locked.

The magic phase was a bit of a dud 4v3 – the archmage tried to 2-dice Walk the phoenix guard but that was dispelled. I did get off a drain magic just to give the DAM a +1 ward save. Show time.

The archers loosed a precise volley against the nearest goblin block, clearing a rank. The bolt throwers respectively killed a single fireglaive and tried, but failed, to wound the magma cannon.

Combat. The silver helms’ lances lowered as one, plunged and cracked into the flaming hide of the Destroyer. Three plunged deep. The growling daemon smashed its fists down at the knights but into a blue-white dome that suddenly glowed into life and repelled his cracked claws. He bellowed in confusion and pain as the knights rode through his unravelling form. Combat was resolved in my favour 6-0. The Destroyer was destroyed. Noble Caradath raised his gleaming standard and called a halt, wheeling his knights to face the enemy fireglaives.

In the centre, the reavers lowered their spears and skewered the remaining two or three wolf riders. Their leader, the big boss, slew a reaver but broke. He ran an average distance. A poor pursuit roll from the elves saw him escape.

On my left flank, the phoenix swept down and squashed the enemy BSB. The star dragon then methodically took the sorcerer lord and pulled him apart. Then he smashed into the dwarven square and bathed it in fire. After this massacre the dwarfs did have at least one full rank left, but they nonetheless failed their steadfast Ld 9 break test and fled. The phoenix shattered the fleeing dwarfs and piled onward into the central goblins. The dragon folded its wings and faced the centre of the field.

CD Turn 2

The heart had now been ripped out of the dwarven army. They needed some picks, fast. The wolfrider big boss rallied by the magma cannon and screamed for them to shoot something. Anything! The scowling dwarfs launched a bolt of flame against the phoenix guard, only clipping their formation and killing one. The fireglaives, in a panic, refused a frontal charge into the helms and instead opened fire. They took no kills. The hell cannon targeted the right-hand phoenix. Again it missed. The doom rocket went for the archers, looking for easier points. Another miss.

The left-hand frostheart crushed a few goblins and drove off the remainder – they fled through all sorts of terrain and units to appear in the ruins between the fireglaives and hell cannon. The phoenix let them run and fixed its gaze on the fireglaives themselves.

Image
End of Turn 2. Daemonic machines fail as the High Elves smash through the enemy's heaviest units and close in for the kill.

HE Turn 3

Time for the end game. The dragon charged the magma cannon. The left-hand phoenix charged the flank of the fireglaives, corner to corner because of the building. This gave me a potential overrun into the Death engineer. The phoenix guard charged the fireglaives to the front. This last centre of dwarven strength was now in a hopeless position. The right-hand phoenix charged the hell cannon.

The magic phase, another weak one, saw a 3++ go up on the phoenix guard and nothing else. But that was all I needed.

During the shooting phase I shot and killed the big boss. Enough of him.

Cometh combat, cometh the points! Except also cometh the end of the round. Before combat, too! The tournament had started late. My opponent had then spent the first 30-40 minutes of this round gluing his army together, which had come out of storage and then been smashed in the journey. He was a lovely chap but that meant fewer points for me. The tournament rule on timings was a Hard Stop – dice down. Thank God I’d moved as quickly as I had!

In the end I took the K’dai Destroyer, the enemy general, the BSB with a clutch of standards, the CD infantry block, the wolf riders and the big boss. I’d lost a unit of reavers.

16-4 win to the High Elves. Not bad in two turns. Onwards!

Image
Death by Phoenix
The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

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SpellArcher
Green Istari
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Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
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Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports

#1710 Post by SpellArcher »

Seredain wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:22 pm
SA - thank you for brainstorming this list with me! And for opening the door to the Magic Star Dragon!
I've got your back dude. There was a famous song from the sixties (a decade I freaking lived in) called Puff the Magic Dragon!

The Chaos Dwarf list looks plausible, I just feel your opponent should have been able to squeeze an extra war machine in at 3000pts. The BSB absolutely should have had better protection and not the Banner of Slavery. I'm not sure what load-out the Sorcerers had but Chalice of Blood and Darkness plus a 4+ Ward would have made sense on the Lvl 4. I feel this match-up favours the HIgh Elves but the CD's can certainly put up a fight. Normally I'd be more worried about Flames of Azgorh than Ash Storm but here I agree the latter is public enemy number one. You both seemed to roll a good set of spells, your magic is perhaps slightly stronger but there's not much in it IMHO.

As discussed, the CD's look too dispersed. I would absolutely have had a Sorcerer by that Hellcannon to grant re-rolls but judging by events your opponent may not have been aware this was legal? HIs real crime of course was deploying his two key characters out on a flank without meaningful support. Incidentally, I'm pretty sure Thunderstomps work against units in buildings (Special Attacks paragraph pg 128 main rulebook).

Some nice moves in that first turn, in particular the Dragon poised behind that tower. Walking the Frostheart around that flank was splendid. Your opponent charging with his General's unit looks really bad, presumably he should be using the Hobgoblins to deny flank access to the phoenix? I'm guessing he should have challenged the Archmage with a Champion? A more tanky BSB likely survives the bird's attentions and holds for at least a turn. Did your opponent play that non-magical attacks are at -1 to wound K'daai as their book states? The FAQ changes this to requiring re-rolls to wound and crucially clarifies that they do not have Magical attacks themselves. When bringing a niche army like CD's it really pays to know your own rules in detail.

Overall it looks like your opponent was slightly unlucky with his ranged attacks but once the General's unit and the Destroyer went down it was pretty much a clean-up job for the High Elves. As inferred, I feel that the Silver Helm charge on the K'daai was objectively a mistake but even if you wait on the right, your left should be able to roll up his line for a substantial win.

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