Questions so I can update myself to newer rules

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Alpha
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Questions so I can update myself to newer rules

#1 Post by Alpha »

I haven't solidly played Warhammer Fantasy since the very late 90s, and despite a brief introduction to 7th edition five years ago, I'm pretty rusty on some things.

I will be picking up the base rule book soon, but do have some general questions regarding rules; I've tried to research where I can, but haven't found many decent, reliable answers.

1. Can I use old models as their current characters? I have Alarielle and Tirion (Tirion's on a 25x50 base) models from the 90s
2. Are GW/players picky about model representation, so long as it makes sense? For example, I have a mage holding a sword aloft; could I use it as a Loremaster? Similarly, I have Aenur the Sword of Twilight (from Mordheim I believe); can he be a Shadow Walker?
3. Does Martial Prowess only work for close combat? Asking as I'm not sure if archers can fire in two ranks (this may be more obvious once I obtain the base rule book). (edit: I see this in the FAQ post)
4. I have an original Prince Imrik model, where the base is 40x40 (or 50x50, I'm unsure). I notice current dragon models have far larger bases (though that arguable goes with the model size itself). If I fielded that model, would I need to use a different base size than what it came with?

Many thanks in advance.
wisetiger7
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Re: Questions so I can update myself to newer rules

#2 Post by wisetiger7 »

1. Yes
2. Most people (generalization) allow for proxies. Check with your TO if you want to take it to a tournament.
3. "In addition, when shooting, all High Elf models with this special rule fire in one more rank than normal..." BRB states that normally a shooting unit can shoot with the first two ranks. Martial prowess, like close combat, allows for an additional (3rd) full rank of shooting.
4. Most places I've read state you use the base the model came with. However, you can upgrade to the most current base of the model as well. Again, something to talk to your opponent about ahead of time, as well as your TO.
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John Rainbow
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Re: Questions so I can update myself to newer rules

#3 Post by John Rainbow »

Agree with wisetiger7.

On the subject of the old Imrik I also have the same model. Imrik is borderline broken in the ET (although most of the characters are) and a 40 mm base exacerbates this. I actually used to use the model as a lord on dragon a long time ago and got a lot of flak for not upping the base size. I would say use it but see how your playgroup feels about it.
Alpha
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Re: Questions so I can update myself to newer rules

#4 Post by Alpha »

John Rainbow wrote:Agree with wisetiger7.

On the subject of the old Imrik I also have the same model. Imrik is borderline broken in the ET (although most of the characters are) and a 40 mm base exacerbates this. I actually used to use the model as a lord on dragon a long time ago and got a lot of flak for not upping the base size. I would say use it but see how your playgroup feels about it.
Was there a recommendation on what you should up the base size to?
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Re: Questions so I can update myself to newer rules

#5 Post by pk-ng »

Tyrion 50x50mm is acceptable
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Lady Phoenix
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Re: Questions so I can update myself to newer rules

#6 Post by Lady Phoenix »

As previous poster pretty much says, its down to your opponent and the toruny organiser, check before battle begins
Alpha wrote: 1. Can I use old models as their current characters? I have Alarielle and Tirion (Tirion's on a 25x50 base) models from the 90s
2. Are GW/players picky about model representation, so long as it makes sense? For example, I have a mage holding a sword aloft; could I use it as a Loremaster? Similarly, I have Aenur the Sword of Twilight (from Mordheim I believe); can he be a Shadow Walker?
3. Does Martial Prowess only work for close combat? Asking as I'm not sure if archers can fire in two ranks (this may be more obvious once I obtain the base rule book). (edit: I see this in the FAQ post)
4. I have an original Prince Imrik model, where the base is 40x40 (or 50x50, I'm unsure). I notice current dragon models have far larger bases (though that arguable goes with the model size itself). If I fielded that model, would I need to use a different base size than what it came with?
If you were playing against me, and I believe I speak for most people

1- Yes you can and I would have phychologicalrespect for you.I love the old models and love to see them on the battlefield.
2 - If you are using a proxy tell me before hand. Dont present a unit champion and just as he goes into battle against my general suddenly announce he is a blah blah with this that and the other. If you want to field a clan rat as a Chaos Warrior champion thats fine with me as long as I know before you roll the first die of the game.
3 - As previous poster and i cant imporve on that answer.
4 - I would like to see all models on the correct sized bases. Bases can be bought in lots of places for not too much money and if you cant afford that then stick the model on a piece of card.

I personally am quite laspe with "standards" as long as I know before the game begins what is what. However, I have always been brought up along the "showing progression" rule. If you field a unit of unpainted spearmen thats fine, but if I play you two years later I would expect to see them at least with some paint on them. I appreciate that not everyone has as much time as others, Ive owned IoB for over a month and all I have finished is a rat ogre, but all of my army as a whole shows progression fromweekto week, even if Ive only slapped a load of nuln oil over the base coat of armour.

Every single WHFB player Ive met to date is a great person, understanding and helpful. Im not saying there are not A-Holes out there, but most people just want to have fun playing a game they love and helping others progress where they can.
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Prince of Spires
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Re: Questions so I can update myself to newer rules

#7 Post by Prince of Spires »

1. Yes, models don't go out of date.

2. Depends on the player.
- What you see is what you get (WYSIWYG) does not apply to WH. So your mage doesn't need to be holding the book of hoeth and your prince on horse can carry a lance instead of a great weapon.
- It does need to be clear what is what or who. So Aenur is generally fine as a shadow walker if you tell your opponent up front. If you have two of the same mage, then it will be difficult to use one as loremaster, since it is confusing for your opponent which is which.

3. It works for both shooting and close combat attacks

4. The official rule is (on p80 of the BRB in case anyone asks) that "A model should always be mounted on the base it is supplied with."
So officially it is fine to use imrik on his original base (in fact, you must do so if you are playing by the rules).

One thing to keep in mind here is "the spirit of the game" (which is actually also a 'rule', on p3). Which states (paraphrased) that WH is not science and that the game should be played for fun, not for winning at all cost. Using different bases then the current base can be seen as going against the spirit of the game (if you are doing so because you want to gain an advantage).

So it is best to check it with your gaming group. In general, people are relatively quick in finding out what kind of motives you have for doing something and what kind of player you are. And will judge you accordingly.

And vise-versa of course. I generally play fun and fluff lists. I have the same imrik model lying around. Any player complaining about it to me is probably revealing more about himself and his attitude to the game then about me.

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Alpha
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Re: Questions so I can update myself to newer rules

#8 Post by Alpha »

Thanks for the answers, all!

1. Glad to hear I can still use them. And looking at the answers given, I could use them as generic Lords/Heroes in a game.

2. Good to hear again (nice use of wysiwyg there, Prince of Spires). I figured the ones I had in mind wouldn't be a problem, as what they look like make sense to what I'd use them for.

3. Interesting. Do people ever do 3 ranks of shooting, or does it really depend on the situation?

4. I'll probably keep them on their original bases then. However, should the need arise, it wouldn't be difficult to put together larger bases they could slot into, should somebody have a problem with it.

It's pretty warming to hear the good talk of playing for fun and not for strife; it's pretty much the reason I want to play again (as well finally getting some painting done!).
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Re: Questions so I can update myself to newer rules

#9 Post by wisetiger7 »

3. I do often use 3 ranks of shooting. In my wood elf army (that basically has martial prowess when in a forest) had three units of 14-15 glade guard, so it is easier to maneuver an archer group if it is only 5 wide.

I used to run archer groups in minimum units of 10, but found that they were just a little too easy to kill. I've found that 14-15 is minimum for a bunker for a shooty character or mage (Dreaded 13th takes out an average of 14 models, and I used to play against skaven a lot).

The problem with three ranks is that you have to make sure your 3rd rank is in range to shoot. That means you have to push the unit forward nearly an inch further, putting you that much closer to the enemy to be charged. Most probably consider this problem moot, but in my experience, it is always something to consider.

Logistics-wise for a high elf army, I tend to run only one core unit with bows (other than reavers) because we actually have some decent core choices now. If I do run archers, it is usually 14-15. I always, ALWAYS run at least one (if not two) units of 5 reavers. Then I take either one unit of 14 archers and a silver helm dart or a large unit of sea guard. With 8th edition, the concept of 'core tax' is all but gone IMO.
thelordcal wrote:Or he uses his big a$$ banner pole as a great weapon...
wisetiger7 wrote:That's what she said.
Asurion Whitestar wrote:I would normally delete such an off topic post, but this is just too good. Classic..!! :)
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