How do you handle the terrorgheist?

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Delaqure
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How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#1 Post by Delaqure »

So, I fought against the VC this last weekend and got my butt handed to me primarily by the Hex wraith. The thing can fly and scream at you. It killed my prince on a dragon, both of my phoenixes and my other characters. It was able to keep being healed up every turn by the VC casters and so even when I got close to killing it, it would just regenerate. Man, I am tired of losing.

I am leaving the monster list. There are too many monsters out there that are better than ours and too many counters out there for our monsters. I am sorry now that I have a phoenix. It's a beautiful model and I really like the paint job on it. Sigh! :(

So, how do you kill this thing?
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HERO
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Re: How do you handle the Hexwraith?

#2 Post by HERO »

That's the Terrorgheist, who flies and screams at you.

You kill his ass by shooting him to death since he only has a 6+ Regen unless in the presence of a Mortis Engine. Then you bring Sisters of Avelorn and you shoot it some more, stripping the Regen and then shoot him some more. Magic missiles also help, but I personally like Withering on him.
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Re: How do you handle the Hexwraith?

#3 Post by SpellArcher »

What HERO said.

Even S3 hurts a guy with almost no saves.
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Re: How do you handle the Hexwraith?

#4 Post by The Silly Dragon »

Hexwraith? The Ethereal one? or did you mean the Terrorgheist as that's the one that's flies and does screams (or a Banshee but it cannot fly). So I assume you meant Terrorgheist.

The thing only has 5-6 wounds and T6 with only a regen. Try some Sisters of Avelorn as they will stripe away that regen and then follow up with some RBT (6 shots not 1 shot) and then some Archers (say 20) and you should have a dead Terrorgheist.

The range of that heal attribute is only 12" is it not? And the scream is only like 6-12" I think so if it flies to scream at you it is not close enough to be healed and if it stays close to its heals then it is too far away to scream at you unless you are taking a hyper aggressive list.

Also its scream is 2D6 minus targets ld right? Our Frostphoenix has ld9 so good luck to it doing wounds (and a ward too). Also a Frosty will kick its ass in combat so don't give up on the Phoenix (heck take the Fire one to negate its regen in combat with it).

I used to be scared of the Terrorgheist myself but not so any more. Mainly its because if it sits around it gets shot and in combat we strike first (I take plenty of WL which are a pain for any monster to run in to).

Just keep calm and carry on, the Terrorgheist is not that hard to kill if you have the right tools (Sisters is what I suggest).
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Re: How do you handle the Hexwraith?

#5 Post by HERO »

Oh, one more thing. The guy's scream gets weaker the more wounds are on him, so shooting it pretty hard will make it crap at doing its main job.
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Re: How do you handle the Hexwraith?

#6 Post by rothgar13 »

Frankly, if the VC player is bringing a Terrorgheist, he's playing hardball, so you should play hardball right back. Ditch the Prince on a Dragon and bring some heavy-duty casting - Death, Beasts, Light, Heavens, and Shadows all have the tools to put that thing down like an unruly dog. The advice above is also good - it basically has negligible saves, so if you shoot it enough times, Wounds get through and its effectiveness wanes.

I would strongly advise against ditching the Phoenix, as well - it can put real pressure on the Gheist to not go certain places (because Frosty thumps it in combat), and it has the durability to take at least one scream to the chin and keep on going.
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Re: How do you handle the Hexwraith?

#7 Post by Eirik »

Like a hydra, without the saves.

Also if you charge him with a cav unit he will just sort of fall apart (if the opponent isn't careful to keep him out of charge range). This is useful to know during deployment.
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Re: How do you handle the Hexwraith?

#8 Post by HERO »

Can a mod change the thread title?
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Re: How do you handle the Hexwraith?

#9 Post by Tethlis »

Also, you shouldn't complain about the Phoenix. The frost variant's one of the best monsters in the game, and even the Fire version is amazing in certain matchups. Getting owned by a new unit doesn't make our monsters bad, it just meant that you were surprised by something new and didn't know how to counter it :P

Generally when I face VC, I'll anticipate Terrorgheists and keep my troops tightly clustered in my DZ, with my most expensive points-per-wound units in the center of my deployment with lots of multi-wound units surrounding them to help keep the Terrorgheist at a distance. The scream is short range, so there's a very good chance the 'gheist won't be able to reach the Phoenix, bolt throwers, etc. on turn 1 unless you give him a good place to land. Similarly, I arrange my troops facing outward so that if he lands close to scream, he'll be eating a charge next turn, with most of the VC army still too far away to support the Terrogheist. The Terrorgheist can scream into close combat, but otherwise is quite lackluster as a combat monster with a low number of medium-Strength Attacks. This makes it quite vulnerable if you can catch it with a strong charge, crumbling it down to either kill it outright or reduce its effectiveness. Cautious deployment is key here though; it's a good way to hold the Terrorgheist(s) off for a turn or two, and give the opportunity to use one or two shooting and magic phases to either kill it off or shred some wounds off it and make the scream less effective. VC generally aren't applying a lot of early game pressure, except for the Terrorgheists, so there's rarely any rush to go hurrying across the table while disrupting your own defensive deployment. It's when you start spreading troops out that the Terrorgheist becomes very difficult to deal with.
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Re: How do you handle the Hexwraith?

#10 Post by Eirik »

The enemy has to be within 8'' to use the shriek, which means unless he's direclty in front of your everything he probably either can't scream or is outside of 12'' from the general (edit: on turn 1). This means that either he has Ld 4, in which case you can death magic him, or he has ld4, in which case you can charge him and break him. I actually like to keep a few elements of my front line spread out for this charge, so that I don't have much in the way of flanks. Resist the urge to vanguard your reavers forward too much. In melee it only has 4 S6 attacks, so charge with cavalry to deny stomps.
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Delaqure
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Re: How do you handle the Hexwraith?

#11 Post by Delaqure »

Sorry it was a terrorgheist. My opponant is a very savy player and kept the gheist close to his camps and the cart thing. He screamed my frosty off the board in one swipe doing six unsaved wounds. My Prince on a dragon failed to kill it and he healed it next turn and wounded and screamed him to death next round. So I have learned some things from this board on how to handle some of these things. I thank You all! I am going to completely change my army after really thinking about how I've been playing and how I've been struggling. Look for my thoughts in the army list thread at a later date. I really think I have hit on something at least in theory. I have to pull all my thoughts together first.
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Re: How do you handle the Hexwraith?

#12 Post by Sackree »

It sounds like you had rotten luck with the Phoenix! He must have rolled 11 and you failed all your Ward saves. I guarantee that if you played again that would not happen. The more damage you do to him the less he can do to you with his scream.
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Re: How do you handle the Hexwraith?

#13 Post by Struthy »

Delaqure wrote:Sorry it was a terrorgheist. My opponant is a very savy player and kept the gheist close to his camps and the cart thing. He screamed my frosty off the board in one swipe doing six unsaved wounds. My Prince on a dragon failed to kill it and he healed it next turn and wounded and screamed him to death next round. So I have learned some things from this board on how to handle some of these things. I thank You all! I am going to completely change my army after really thinking about how I've been playing and how I've been struggling. Look for my thoughts in the army list thread at a later date. I really think I have hit on something at least in theory. I have to pull all my thoughts together first.
Majority of the time a terrorgheist will die in a charge from a kitted up prince + dragon due to crumble. I've killed it with a lucky charge once with a frosty and once with a small unit of DP's. Setting up combo charges with cavalry/war beasts also helps for combat resolution. Even an eagle in the rear/flank would be a bonus most of the time (eagle hitting it first then returning on the eagle hitting on 4's wounding on 3's and 2 wounds total)
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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#14 Post by de kaasboer »

Sackree wrote:It sounds like you had rotten luck with the Phoenix! He must have rolled 11 and you failed all your Ward saves. I guarantee that if you played again that would not happen. The more damage you do to him the less he can do to you with his scream.
that is actually not true, a full wound terrorgheist would cause 8 wounds to a phoenix (unless within general range, then it would be 7)when rolling an 11 so quite a lot of damage. still, allowing it no space to land and shooting/magicing it to death early on seem the most common and best ways to get rid of it. a timely charge would also work, but make sure to stop you opponent from healing itup and creamimng your unit of knights/chariot/monster to death.
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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#15 Post by Csjarrat »

the terrorgheist is one of the most broken things in the game at the moment mate. keep it well away from your cavalry and expensive armoured stuff, it'll delete a unit in one go.
your best bet to deal with it is shooting, lots and lots of shooting. death magic works too, but you have to be quite close which isn't fantastic.
if you have to engage it in CC, slam a chariot or two into it or a nice ranked unit with BOTWD.

i've taken them down with an archer horde in combat before, 30 ASF attacks creates a lot of 6's :-)
an interesting variation on my usual playstyle, which is 'charge forward, forward for the love of khaine, we can fight better than any of them and they can't shoot into melee why is our armor so thin ohgodcannons'
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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#16 Post by John Rainbow »

Although it has decent offense, the gheist has poor defense. Hit it in CC or with multiple ranged attacks and it'll go down pretty easy (only need to worry about the T6). This also has the added benefit of making it less useful as its attack is based off of its remaining wounds.
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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#17 Post by Delaqure »

Are it's attacks magical?
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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#18 Post by John Rainbow »

No but its scream is. It does have a couple of upgrades for poison and 'explodes when it dies' but I doubt you'll ever see them on the gheist.
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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#19 Post by Shalorian »

Whilst the Terrorgheist can certainly do some serious damage, some things to bear in mind.

Scream is 2D6 + Wounds - your leadership which equates to 5 wounds on average for Ld8 High Elves. Hardly a deal breaker for an infantry unit, but you need to be careful with cavalry, monsters or individual characters.

He can fly 20 inches then scream to a distance of 8 inches so in theory has plenty of manoeuvrability, BUT....
1. he sits on an enormous base so actually landing somewhere can be a challenge. With careful unit placement you can actually seriously limit where he can land. One place a Terrorgheist NEVER wants to land is inside the charge arc of anything even remotely killy. While T6 & 6W is nice, no saves except 6+ regen is not. S3 shooting and bolt throwers will also give you a good chance of taking him down (42 S3 shots on average to kill in one turn, 36 if you can get a flaming wound on first)
2. If he lands more than 12" away from his general he can't march next turn, so is now limited to a 10" move, and now it is potentially quite easy to box him in and give him nowhere safe to land. If he lands more than 12" away from the VC wizards he can't gain wounds from the lore attribute, and then only an 18" Invocation will get him a single wound back.
3. The scream is a magical attack with no armour saves, but ward saves are allowed, so both PG and BotWD are strong counters defensively.

I would disagree that the TG is a broken unit. It actually pretty easy to counter for most high elf lists, though if your list is SH Bus, DP bus, double Frost Phoenix and no shooting then you might have some problems.
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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#20 Post by Csjarrat »

Shalorian wrote:Whilst the Terrorgheist can certainly do some serious damage, some things to bear in mind.
I would disagree that the TG is a broken unit. It actually pretty easy to counter for most high elf lists, though if your list is SH Bus, DP bus, double Frost Phoenix and no shooting then you might have some problems.
its the ability to shout into a combat it is not engaged in that is broken.
Glorious cavalry charge, kill kill kill, oh wait what? you've just deleted a unit when you weren't even in combat with? brill. GG thx.
an interesting variation on my usual playstyle, which is 'charge forward, forward for the love of khaine, we can fight better than any of them and they can't shoot into melee why is our armor so thin ohgodcannons'
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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#21 Post by Prince of Spires »

It always rubs me the wrong way that a Terrorgeist can scream each turn where a dragon gets a single breathweapon in the whole game. Doesn't make much sense to me.

In a way though the scream into combat puts it in the same place as other monsters realy. Monsters in general are almost always a case of if you ignore them they will run rampage through your army and can put a lot of hurt on you. But they're not always that though to deal with if you have the right tools

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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#22 Post by John Rainbow »

rdghuizing wrote:It always rubs me the wrong way that a Terrorgeist can scream each turn where a dragon gets a single breathweapon in the whole game. Doesn't make much sense to me.
A terrorgheist doesn't have much going for it other than the scream and T6 though. It's not particularly good in CC or at any other jobs. Otehr than the T6 it has poor defence so it goes down to mass low str. attacks pretty easily.
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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#23 Post by Tethlis »

Csjarrat wrote: its the ability to shout into a combat it is not engaged in that is broken.
Glorious cavalry charge, kill kill kill, oh wait what? you've just deleted a unit when you weren't even in combat with? brill. GG thx.
Hmmm I thought that's the one thing the scream couldn't do. It says that it can be made even if the Terrorgheist "marched, charged, or is engaged in close combat." It also says that "if the Terrorgheist is engaged in combat, its Death Shriek may target a unit in base contact." None of that mentions the ability to target an enemy unit that's engaged in melee that isn't with the Terrorgheist.
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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#24 Post by Worloch »

Q: Can the Ghostly Howl of a Tomb Banshee or the Death Shriek of
a Terrorgheist be used against an enemy unit locked in a close combat
that the Tomb Banshee or Terrorgheist is not themselves involved in?
(p31/48)
A: Yes.
Source
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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#25 Post by Tethlis »

Figured it was an FAQ, trust them to break things. Thanks for posting. I guess I've just been fortunate in my last dozen or so VC games, either killing the Terrorgheist(s) at range or engaging them directly.
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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#26 Post by Worloch »

Yeah, it can be pretty powerful in certain situations, but as been highlighted in this thread already, the gheist has some serious limitations that can be exploited as well.

- Since the power of the scream is directly related to remaining wounds on the gheist, removing wounds from it is like a 2 for 1 deal. You reduce the power of the scream and it is that much closer to death.

- The short range of the scream forces the gheist to contend with maneuvering difficulties. Smart play can force the opponent in to unfavorable circumstances.

- The gheist is fairly tough, but doesn't have much of a save to speak of. It is vulnerable to weight of shots and hits, and will crumble to static CR in CC as well.


End result - Try not to let your prime targets (expensive 2+ AS Calvary, for example), get hung up while the gheist screams them to death.
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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#27 Post by Tatro43 »

I had to play in a tournament against a guy with 3 of those, plus The Lord level guy who could also scream. I honed fire on the first one, killed it, using 10 sisters and 15 archers and 2 bolt throwers. Second one I did exactly the same, killed that one, and then focused on the rest of his army. I did take some casualties due to him screaming, but I knew once those 3 things were gone, I had won the battle.
It was tough though, I'm not going to lie.
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Re: How do you handle the terrorgheist?

#28 Post by Baleanoon »

Depends on the enemy build, against necro Vamps, don't deploy at the 12 inch mark, make him fly out of general range to target anything worth while.

Against Cav star? Its a bit more difficult Pit pendulum and Purple sun work well. If you are going for trickle effect (shooting, combat spirit leech or MM) you need to stop the vamp heal spell.

Try blocking it from getting in range or prime targets by putting fast cav or eagles in its prime landing locations.
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