Get Ready for the Storm of Chaos...

[jwg20]

So some people I know have the warriors book already.

I played two games with them tonight.

Both games I lost 20-0. I think i earned under 500 Vps total in both games combined. I haven't felt this powerless since 7th ed daemons came out. I could not do anything.

Both lists were similar: Warriors block + chaff, Daemon prince (new daemon princes can kill a VC lord in a challenge with average rolls), a 3++ BSB on disc (the 3++ survives, and actually got better.. they can re rol 1s for ward saves now), 2 chimeras, etc.

The meta is shifting. Anyone else have these experiences today?

[Malossar]

Did you play with or against them? IT sounds like you're nervous for playing against them, but sounds like you also were the player using them?

Haha, yes they're going to be a tough army, i'll be picking up my copy tomorrow morning first thing.

[Curu Olannon]

Coven of Light: Banishment beats the living crap out of the Daemon Prince and BSB. Boosted Shem's hurt Chimeraes on 2+ with no saves. Lions eat Warriors for breakfast. Problem?

[Elithmar]

Death could be very useful...

[Lecai]

You and lordcal's Eagle Prince really is pretty damn good against that "unkillable" Chaos lord. S5 is nothing to him with a 2+ re-rollable Armour and 4++ Ward save. 3++ Ward loses its re-roll by the tOtS and him hitting with S6 is decent enough. He can at least hold the bastard and slowly beat him to death!

The lore of Death is useful VS the chariots and especially the low LD monsters. D&D can make the characters flee after losing combat against your Prince as it has been mentioned by lordcal in the other thread. Vaul's Unmaking removing items like the Talisman of Preservation is great. "re-rollable 6++", lol you keep re-rolling that 6++ son... Soulblight is also a superb debuff against WoC, the bubble version would be awesome if you can get it off. Our elite infantry is still superb VS the Warriors. They weren't so good vs the massive hordes of cheap Marauders but their natural prey still is and has always been the Warriors, WL and SM just rip them apart.

Here's a sample list:

Lords -%24,3

1x Prince - Great Eagle, Vambraces of Defence, Armour of Caledor, The Other Trickster's Shard, Great Weapon = 307
1x Archmage (The Lore of Death) - Level 4, Annulian Crystal = 300

Heroes -%15,6

1x Noble - Great Eagle, Battle Standard Bearer, Helm of Fortune, Guardian Phoenix, Dragon Armour, Shield, Great Weapon = 226
1x Mage (The Lore of High Magic: Vaul's Unmaking, Shield of Saphery) - Level 2, Seerstaff of Saphery = 165

Core -%25,2

26x Archers - Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Eternal Flame = 311
14x Archers - Musician = 159
14x Archers - Musician = 159

Special -%30,9

30x White Lions of Chrace - Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, The Gem of Courage = 540
14x Sword Masters of Hoeth - Bladelord, Talisman of Loec = 232

Rare -%4

1x Great Eagle = 50
1x Great Eagle = 50

TOTAL = 2499

[Lord Anathir]

Were you playing with VC or HE?

[Ptolemy]

I'm going to be playing a game using the new WoC tomorrow. Here is the list I'm bringing. I'll do a batrep tomorrow afternoon.

Daemon Prince of Nurgle - Chaos Armor, Fly, Sword of Striking, Charmed Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Flaming Breath, Poisonous Slime, Soul Feeder, Scaled Skin, Chaos Familiar. Level 4 (death)

Exalted Hero of Tzeentch - Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Third Eye of Tzeentch, Disc, BSB

Chaos Sorcerer of Slaanesh - Level 2, Dispel Scroll

18 Warriors of Slaanesh - Halberds , Mus/Std, Banner of Swiftness
3x Chariot - Slaanesh
5x Warhounds - Vanguard

Chimera - Regen, Breath Weapon

Gorebeast Chariot - Khorne

4x Skullcrushers - Mus/Std - Gleaming Pennant

I'll let you all know how it goes. Playing VC

[Elithmar]

Ptolemy, I thought your daemon prince was of Slaanesh.

[Raithial]

is it just me or is every army so far stronger than all the previous armies?
I mean; previous ogres were middleclass, now they're nearly top-tier, same goes for VC.
Empire was always a strong and staunch army, but they've also improved tremendously, and the same could be said about orcs...
If that's the case, then I can't wait untill the new High Elves come out!
*silently hopes that the gryphon will finally be T5 with at the very least a 5+ armoursave*

Chaos has always had a douchy reputation in my book, I mean, their core is better than a multitude of specials and rare choices! Seems like GW still loves their chaos warriors a bit too much...

[Elithmar]

I don't want a good high elf book - I like being the underdogs.

[SpellArcher]

I'd say O&G mid-low, TK low but with some tricksy builds, Ogres high, VC & Empire mid-high.

Warriors have always been decent but in some places feared, largely due to match-ups I think.

[Ptolemy]

Ptolemy, I thought your daemon prince was of Slaanesh.

Oh don't worry, he'll LOOK like he is

Yes. I'm THAT guy.

[Baleanoon]

I'd say O&G mid-low, TK low but with some tricksy builds, Ogres high, VC & Empire mid-high.

Warriors have always been decent but in some places feared, largely due to match-ups I think.

I would say that all the armies so far are in the same band except TK. For me Ogres appear higher because people havem't been consistant with their comparisons. They aren't as powerful as a 7th edition book, but by their very nature beat up on T3 armies, which the majority of 8th books have been. The Gutstar has at least 2 hard counters in the warrior book, so while some players might keep fielding it, I feel like you're going to see a more MMU approach from ogres on top tables world wide, as they find ways to counter WofC. Which makes it easier for other armies to fight them... or harder if your HEs... As personally I think the Stonehorn is going to be one of the tools OK use to fight WofC.

[finreir]

new wocs book is very good,
but tbh i won 20-0 today confortably in etc comp.
My eagle raf has now taken a direction that is meant to be competitive rather than a laugh,
gonna be posting my new list in the comign days but for sure most people here will say it is weak.
Lookign forward to the challenge of ighting another book much higher powered than our own and giving people a hard game

[Ptolemy]

new wocs book is very good,
but tbh i won 20-0 today confortably in etc comp.
My eagle raf has now taken a direction that is meant to be competitive rather than a laugh,
gonna be posting my new list in the comign days but for sure most people here will say it is weak.
Lookign forward to the challenge of ighting another book much higher powered than our own and giving people a hard game

Your point about people saying a list is bad is well taken. I have learned over the last few years that what people think is good or bad is heavily dependent on where the local meta is at.


Also, as promised, my Battle Report using the new WoC is up in my blog.

Link here -> http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=42856

[finreir]

new wocs book is very good,
but tbh i won 20-0 today confortably in etc comp.
My eagle raf has now taken a direction that is meant to be competitive rather than a laugh,
gonna be posting my new list in the comign days but for sure most people here will say it is weak.
Lookign forward to the challenge of ighting another book much higher powered than our own and giving people a hard game

Your point about people saying a list is bad is well taken. I have learned over the last few years that what people think is good or bad is heavily dependent on where the local meta is at.


Also, as promised, my Battle Report using the new WoC is up in my blog.

Link here -> http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=42856

i dont play a local meta just a 4 very different regional metas here in the uk (that often all get together at same tournie) and on UB also.

High elves writing lists for local metas smells of win, just a little different to write lists to fight all comers and thats a challenge I have spent 18 months now trying to achieve. Am very interested to read about other metas that people on this site describe though

heres a link to my list though in case you are interested with my wierd conclusions (that seem to work for me not sayign its the best list or anythign)
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=43597

[Ptolemy]

new wocs book is very good,
but tbh i won 20-0 today confortably in etc comp.
My eagle raf has now taken a direction that is meant to be competitive rather than a laugh,
gonna be posting my new list in the comign days but for sure most people here will say it is weak.
Lookign forward to the challenge of ighting another book much higher powered than our own and giving people a hard game

Your point about people saying a list is bad is well taken. I have learned over the last few years that what people think is good or bad is heavily dependent on where the local meta is at.


Also, as promised, my Battle Report using the new WoC is up in my blog.

Link here -> http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=42856

i dont play a local meta just a 4 very different regional metas here in the uk (that often all get together at same tournie) and on UB also.

High elves writing lists for local metas smells of win, just a little different to write lists to fight all comers and thats a challenge I have spent 18 months now trying to achieve. Am very interested to read about other metas that people on this site describe though

heres a link to my list though in case you are interested with my wierd conclusions (that seem to work for me not sayign its the best list or anythign)
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=43597

Well, for instance, the majority of my games are played against the guys in my local club with the following army mix.

- 2 x Empire
- 2x Skaven
- 3x Ogres
- 1x WoC
- 2x O&G
- 1x Lizards
- 1x Dwarfs
- 1x Beasts
- 1x Brets
- 1x Chaos Dwarves

So...that just means about half the armies I face have at least two cannon shots (Skaven, Empire (always has 3 with Stank), Ogres). Thats the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'll give your list a look. Very interested.

[jamierk]

Ouch! Couple of questions if you don't mind. If you could vauls unmaking a few things, would it have helped? (And if so what things?). Are their main units full of magic attacks or are they spread thin? And lastly is it pretty much all ward saves as opposed to regents. My experience is that we don't care too much about high strength stuff since we get wounded so easily anyway and tend to rely more on ward saves than armour saves (with notable exceptions of course). I am more worried about stuff we can't hurt with our specials or mind razored elves.

[Silver]

O&G aren't mid-low, they are strong mid, nearly top tier.
I've demolished gutstar lists among other things..
Tied against annoying Death Slann lists, etc
Eaten my fair share of Elves, both High and Dark (I don't come across Woodies often).
And lost a few times as well against the same armies too of course ;D

Also won against a 6 Sphinx List, leaving only 1 standing at the end!

Its definitely not mid-low tier.
:3

As for Chaos, its quite strong but its mostly the "new army syndrome" that has you lose terribly to them.
A regular daemon player lost in 3 turns against a Throgg army. x:

Just gotta learn their new tricks!
And be weary of their new secrets~
Also that T6 2+ armor chariot at 140 pts.. what were they thinking pricing it so low?

[Shannar, Sealord]

The new O&G are anything but weak. Even when I restrict myself to only NG type things it's still a pretty strong list.

[Shannar, Sealord]

Also that T6 2+ armor chariot at 140 pts.. what were they thinking pricing it so low?

Probably that they wanted to sell a bunch of chariots.

[Bolt Thrower]

Also that T6 2+ armor chariot at 140 pts.. what were they thinking pricing it so low?

[/quote]
How does that chariot compare to the lion chariot?

[Elessehta of Yvresse]

There are already three WoC armies at my club, all three of them have the new book, just waiting for them to buy all the new toys ^_^'

[Silver]

Also that T6 2+ armor chariot at 140 pts.. what were they thinking pricing it so low?

How does that chariot compare to the lion chariot?

I think T6 2+ armor speaks for itself, offensive power I don't have the exact stats of the beast pulling it but y'know.. its Chaos Warriors on top~ WS5 2A I5, probably S4 with Great Weapon options or something.

Basically, it will hit hard and it will be harder to get rid of it x:

[cptcosmic]

the hell!

Chimeras, Daemon Prince, Nurgle Sorcerers & Skullcrusher with 3 wounds are boss and there arent many units that can deal with them. Am I forced to run lore of light now just to be sure? and the chariots are underpriced for the durability they receive.

[SpellArcher]

Chariot armour saves are 3+ according to my book.

Maybe O&G depends where you play? New ETC gives them bonus points but some other 'bonus point' comps don't.

[finreir]

orcs, tomb kings, wood elves, high elves and beastmen bring up the rear in terms of tournament going armies that can compete in 6 different match ups (consistently). Its fine to be able to win one off games with the above and they have good stuff but try fighting a balanced list with them and they seem to struggle over 6 games. Choas i think will slot top of middle tier but they look a strong for sure, guess timem will tell tbh.

[Silver]

Chariot armour saves are 3+ according to my book.

Maybe O&G depends where you play? New ETC gives them bonus points but some other 'bonus point' comps don't.

Yea I was told 2+ but its 3+, still rock solid at T6 ;D
As for ETC - thats FakeHammer so I do not play it and never want to.
I play mostly uncompted - the only things restricted in my region is Teclis, Kairos and Book of Hoeth - though I've faced Teclis in 'Ard Boyz and finished him off~ (Phoenix Guards bunker in grave danger, he fails to get a double on Steeds of Shadows so I scroll it and kill him in close combat~)

[wamphyri101]

Was at GottaCon this weekend and the stall sold out of WoC books in 5 mins (thats 45 copies)

They are also a fantastic army now vs Ogres.

They are a tough army but to be honest I have no objections from reading the book (bar chariots being core!...Lets hope lion chariots are 110pts and core...)

I gonna make a list or two tonight to see what I can come up with

Thing I love about the book is the options. i recon you will see a of WoC armies, but the variation between lists will be great

[Rd.Parto]

Chariot armour saves are 3+ according to my book.

Maybe O&G depends where you play? New ETC gives them bonus points but some other 'bonus point' comps don't.

Yea I was told 2+ but its 3+, still rock solid at T6 ;D

And don't forget, Impact Hits have Killing Blow!