Ulthuan Rallies for War

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Prince of Spires
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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#61 Post by Prince of Spires »

Congrats! It's a great looking army. And though it's not optimized, I wouldn't discount it either. It's a decent army. The main things it lacks are redirectors, in the form of either Reavers or eagles and magic (or more shooting). But if you add those in then it should make for a pretty good 2500 pts army. At least, I could ahve fun with this. Put the spearmen and PG in the centre, the cavalry on the flanks and you've got a good enough force to begin with.

The great thing I found on reaching this point is that everything you add is a bonus. With more units you could either field a bigger army, or you can start trying new things. And the number of options grows fast with each extra unit.
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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#62 Post by TyrrenAzureblade »

Just a small update, I've been posting most of my smaller updates over at the Eight Edition For Life forum's Monthly Painting challenges. Here are some shooty warmachines and characters that have finally been brought up to table top standard. Took me a long time to get the last few paints I needed to wrap up the magic effects.

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#63 Post by Azaam »

Always a pleasure to see your updates.
The warmachines and its crew are nice and clean as ususal but we can clearly see that you took extra time for the characters and that paid off.
Also the pink for the capes goes really well with the colour scheme. Good idea because I think we don't see this colour enough.

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#64 Post by MasterOfNone »

I love your wizards!
Very clean painting style, congratulations.
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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#65 Post by Prince of Spires »

They're great. The pink works remarkably well on the models. Well done!
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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#66 Post by TyrrenAzureblade »

Got that sweet sweet High Elf Prince on barded steed painted up, and I'm so excited to put this guy on the table. Got a 2000 point High Elf vs Skaven match coming up in August when I visit my friend in Washington, so we're both pretty excited to have fully painted armies on the table when that day comes.

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#67 Post by Prince of Spires »

He looks amazing. I really like his face. I know it's only a small part of the model, but for me the face always finishes of a model and you managed to pack a lot of detail into it. Well done!

I would love to see some photos of your upcoming battle. Two fully painted armies facing off against each other should look epic!
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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#68 Post by TyrrenAzureblade »

Thanks for the comments guys, they really mean a lot.
Prince of Spires wrote:He looks amazing. I really like his face. I know it's only a small part of the model, but for me the face always finishes of a model and you managed to pack a lot of detail into it. Well done!

I would love to see some photos of your upcoming battle. Two fully painted armies facing off against each other should look epic!
Agreed, the eyes really just make the damn thing feel alive. I think we're definitely going to grab photos of this epic get together. The plan is to start with a very plain 8th edition 2000 point battleline game. Then after that, we're going to play a 2000 point End Times game with different army lists. Then we may play a 3000 point match that'll either be a standard 8th or an End Times game depending on which we feel is more fun I think. We've got until August to plan this all out, so I'll keep you posted, and will definitely get photos up here after it all goes down.

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#69 Post by Olthannon »

Awesome work with the mounted noble, looks amazing. Really like the colour you used for the horse.

Definitely post up photos of your game!
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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#70 Post by Prince of Spires »

TyrrenAzureblade wrote: Agreed, the eyes really just make the damn thing feel alive. I think we're definitely going to grab photos of this epic get together. The plan is to start with a very plain 8th edition 2000 point battleline game. Then after that, we're going to play a 2000 point End Times game with different army lists. Then we may play a 3000 point match that'll either be a standard 8th or an End Times game depending on which we feel is more fun I think. We've got until August to plan this all out, so I'll keep you posted, and will definitely get photos up here after it all goes down.
I like this plan. That just means more photo's for us! :D
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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#71 Post by Azaam »

It may just be the light but it looks a bit darker than your usual style. And there's also more constrast. I guess that helps a lot in making it even better than the other ones.
A whole unit with this standard would look amazing !

Just like the others, can't wait to see the pictures you'll take.
And don't forget, when we're talking about 2 fully painted armies facing each other, there's no such thing as too much pictures ;)

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#72 Post by TyrrenAzureblade »

Azaam wrote:It may just be the light but it looks a bit darker than your usual style. And there's also more constrast.
Yeah for sure. I think you can chalk that one up to me just not having a consistent photography space. Usually I just snap photos with my crappy phone camera while the models are on my very dark desk. I would like to create a light box of some sort so I can properly photograph a few of these elves.

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#73 Post by SpellArcher »

He looks splendid, really vibrant.

=D>

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#74 Post by Prince of Spires »

TyrrenAzureblade wrote:
Azaam wrote:It may just be the light but it looks a bit darker than your usual style. And there's also more constrast.
Yeah for sure. I think you can chalk that one up to me just not having a consistent photography space. Usually I just snap photos with my crappy phone camera while the models are on my very dark desk. I would like to create a light box of some sort so I can properly photograph a few of these elves.
I've seen a few DIY sollutions for light boxes online. A box, some white paper and a daylight bulb often get you most of the way there without costing you too much it seems.
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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#75 Post by TyrrenAzureblade »

Small update, finally got Tyrion up to tabletop standard. I've gotta say, if I never see another metal model again, it'll be too soon. I know a lot of the old grognards will cry heresy, but that's a lot of rose colored glass if you ask me. Maybe I've just gotten some bad casts with pitting and horrible flashing and misaligned halves, but aside from having to fix all that I've never been more afraid to drop anything than this damn thing. Yes it's pinned, but the thought of having to bend things back into place after painting sounds incredibly demoralizing. Anyway, glad he's done, if they ever make a plastic kit for The Old World, I'm jumping on that. Rant over.

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#76 Post by SpellArcher »

He's lovely, I think it was well worth your effort Tyrren.

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#77 Post by TyrrenAzureblade »

SpellArcher wrote:He's lovely, I think it was well worth your effort Tyrren.

=D>
Thanks SA, means a lot! I'm realizing if I ever want to complete my collection of the characters, I'm going to probably have to paint a few more metal miniatures, but at least they're not mounted models (I'm happy to play Eltharion as the IoB prince on griffon, or Imrik as the prince on dragon). And maybe Alarielle in Finecast if I ever find here for a reasonable price.

For now, I'm excited to move onto some new models I've got in the pipe, including some Lothern Sea Guard, Dragon Princes, Silverhelms, and a prince on dragon.

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#78 Post by Prince of Spires »

I agree with SA, he looks wonderful. I love how clean and crisp he looks. Definitely a worthy commander of the armies of Ulthuan.

And I agree with you on the pain of metal models... ;)
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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#79 Post by TyrrenAzureblade »

Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment! Now to the centerpiece of my army: The Prince on Dragon! This burly boy was being saved for last, but I couldn't help myself, and I felt confident I'd developed enough techniques that I was ready to have at it. Again, very traditional color scheme, nothing super fancy here. I had assembled this guy well over ten years ago, and had him sitting near my kitchen on a shelf, so he ended up getting kinda grimy with grease from the kitchen, but he cleaned up nicely. If I were to do it all over again, I would have magnetized the prince to be able to swap him out for a dragon mage, and thankfully I've found another NIB kit that I paid way too much for, so I'll have to magnetize that one for sure. I think I would have also used the alternate shield with the dragon instead of the phoenix, but I think it turned out alright. Really proud of this one, and can't wait to field him, even if cannons will probably take him off the table pretty quickly.

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#80 Post by SpellArcher »

Very clean.

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TyrrenAzureblade wrote:I think I would have also used the alternate shield with the dragon instead of the phoenix, but I think it turned out alright.
I feel the phoenix is a kind of wild card in High Elf 'heraldry'. "Oh a phoenix, High Elves it is then." On reflection I guess it denotes the King or the servants of Asuryan but it seems pretty widespread.

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#81 Post by Prince of Spires »

That is one epic centerpiece for your army! I love him. The phoenix shield doesn't bother me too much. As SA mentions, it's fairly common HE heraldry. And all elves are said to have some family heirlooms lying around. So you could easily have some lord take his grandfather's shield into battle. Or it's an Eataini lord who has managed to wake a dragon and he likes keeping some heraldry from his home city.

Rod
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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#82 Post by TyrrenAzureblade »

So this Friday, I played my first in person game with a fully painted force of Ulthuan's finest. Here are a couple of pictures of the army (not pictured are two great eagles, poor underrated redirectors and warmachine hunters...) and the initial deployment. I was going to try and take pictures of every turn and do a bit of a battle report, but immediately got lost in the game, and figuring out rules, and that all went out the window. The rough battle report is as follows: High Elves eked out a victory, with most of the swordmasters, the High archmage, the prince in Dragon Prince bus, and a bolt thrower left on the table, with the skaven force being whittled down to a warp lightning cannon, Queek Headtaker, Warlord on rat ogre, and battle standard bearer. My friend has two kids and we were trying to squeeze in a game before they got home from daycare, so we called it a High Elf victory as I would have flanked his lords and heroes with the swordmasters, and charged them in the rear with the Dragon Princes the next turn after he had decimated my last unit of archers. I think he's got a few more pictures, so I'll update this post as I get them. I'll post the Skaven list in a rough format later since I don't have his BattleScribe file. He really gets extra points for giving all the units unique names and titles.

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The High Elf list:

++ Standard (High Elves - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.0.) [1,997pts] ++

+ Uncategorised +

- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points)

+ Lords +

Archmage [305pts]: High Magic, Wizard Level 4
. Magic Items: AB - Book of Hoeth, BRB - Talisman of Endurance

Prince [267pts]: Dragon Armour
. Ithilmar Barded Elven Steed
. Magic Items: AB - Star Lance, BRB - Enchanted Shield, BRB - Talisman of Preservation

+ Heroes +

Noble [140pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Dragon Armour
. Magic Items: AB - Shield of the Merwyrm, BRB - Sword of Might

+ Core +

Archers [110pts]: 10x Archer, Musician

Archers [110pts]: 10x Archer, Musician

Spearmen [281pts]: Musician, 29x Spearman, Standard Bearer

+ Special +

Dragon Princes of Caledor [204pts]: Champion, 6x Dragon Prince, Musician, Standard Bearer

Sword Masters of Hoeth [340pts]: 20x Sword Master
. Champion
. Musician
. Standard Bearer: AB - Banner of the World Dragon

+ Rare +

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower [70pts]

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower [70pts]

Great Eagle [50pts]: Great Eagle

Great Eagle [50pts]: Great Eagle

++ Total: [1,997pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Skaven List:

CLAN SKAUL 2,000 points

Chitiskit Rotfur - Grey Seer
AB - Foul Pendant
BRB - Dispel Scroll
Wizard Lv. 4

Queek Headtaker

Kreet Ogrethief, Warmonger - Warlord
BRB - Crown of Command
Rat Ogre Bonebreaker

Skrik Cloudbringer, Flagwaver - Chieftan
Battle Standard Bearer
AB - Storm Banner

Ick Rocketsnout, Engineer - Warlock Engineer
AB - Doomrocket

Skrik's Bannerguard - Clanrats
Musician
20x Clanrats
20x Shields

Lordguard - Queek's Stormvermin
31x Stormvermin
Full command
AB - Banner of the Under-Empire

Warpfiends of Skaul - Skavenslaves
Musician
40x Skavenslaves

Darkfurs of Cathay - Gutter Runners
5x Gutter Runners
5x Poisoned Attacks
5x Slings

Fwee Ratbreaker, Wheelpilot - Doomwheel

Prince Bonefeast - Hell Pit Abomination

Thrul Greenshriek, Cannoneer - Warp Lightning Cannon

And an epic photo my friend took of my Dragon Princes charging the Hell Pit Abomination!

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#83 Post by SpellArcher »

Congratulations Tyrren, your army looks splendid! Your list looks pretty solid, I might have been tempted to take a Dispel Scroll and a couple more magic standards I guess. Also maybe to deploy some shooters more to the right? You won though, so all that is slightly superfluous!
TyrrenAzureblade wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:30 pm
And an epic photo my friend took of my Dragon Princes charging the Hell Pit Abomination!
This is awesome!

=D>

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#84 Post by TyrrenAzureblade »

SpellArcher wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:15 pm
I might have been tempted to take a Dispel Scroll and a couple more magic standards I guess
I kinda took a cue from the Mini Wargaming folks and opted to let magic do stuff, so I didn't bring a dispel scroll. I think going forward, we're going to skip dispel scrolls since our games are pretty much friendly and not super competitive. That could change down the line, but for now we're just playing models we think look cool. I probably should've taken a Banner of Eternal Flame on the Dragon Princes to help deal with the Hell Pit Abomination, but thankfully my Prince with Star Lance and some luck with the regeneration saves took care of it.

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#85 Post by SpellArcher »

TyrrenAzureblade wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:19 pm
I think going forward, we're going to skip dispel scrolls since our games are pretty much friendly and not super competitive.
I'm not quite seeing how scrolls make the game more competitive? Obviously what you guys are most comfortable with is key though.
TyrrenAzureblade wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:19 pm
for now we're just playing models we think look cool
It's hard to argue with that!

:)

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#86 Post by Prince of Spires »

Congratulations on the win! It looks like a great battle. There's some great models on the table there. And they definitely look cool! ;) And a Hellpit abomination can always be tough to deal with. Though I did recently have a unit of archers who bravely fought one off and actually managed to kill it (it was down to 2 wounds when it charged in and it rolled terribly, but that's part of the fun...)

I would be tempted to mount your BSB. If he's added to the DP's along with the prince then that becomes a fearsome unit.

Also, Elyrian Reavers are probably better than Eagles, since the reavers come out of core points, which frees up points for something else in your list.

And I love how your opponent named all his units and characters. That's dedication to your army all right :)
SpellArcher wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:47 am
TyrrenAzureblade wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:19 pm
I think going forward, we're going to skip dispel scrolls since our games are pretty much friendly and not super competitive.
I'm not quite seeing how scrolls make the game more competitive? Obviously what you guys are most comfortable with is key though.
I haven't seen the argument, so I'm not sure if this is correct, but it's not about scrolls being directly competitive or not. The idea is more (at least, that's the argument my regular opponent made when he proposed the same idea) that more spells go through, which is fun, since everyone loves a good fireball. With a scroll, you can pretty much shut down a complete magic phase (unless you have great winds). And it's less fun if someone does it by simply saying "scroll". The reason competitiveness comes into play is that in less competitive games, there are fewer min-maxed lists and you're not as likely to run into a very powerful magic phase which would simply ruin your army if it was left unchecked. It's like my skaven opponent who doesn't like taking Dreaded 13th. In such a setting the scroll is not as necessary to keep magic at bay.
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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#87 Post by TyrrenAzureblade »

Prince of Spires wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:14 pm
The idea is more (at least, that's the argument my regular opponent made when he proposed the same idea) that more spells go through, which is fun, since everyone loves a good fireball.
Yep, that's basically it! Warhammer is so chaotic and swingy, I think magic makes for some great big moments. It sure did in our game, a Fiery Convocation went off on his big Stormvermin unit and the rolls were hot (pun intended). I forget how many it killed, but it was a little over half of the 31 Stormvermin. Since we hadn't agreed ahead of time that we both wouldn't take dispel scrolls, he actually scrolled my first one.
Prince of Spires wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:14 pm
Also, Elyrian Reavers are probably better than Eagles, since the reavers come out of core points, which frees up points for something else in your list.
Yeah, I was thinking about this, but more to help against Howling Warpgale and the Storm Banner. My eagles did very little except take cover from the cannon the first two turns, so I couldn't pressure his cannon as much as I would have liked. With Reavers I could have vanguarded, pressured the cannon, or got in the Hell Pit's way right away. On the other hand, the eagles and shooting units helped suppress his magic phase since he was always trying to get Warpgale off at the start of his magic phase. But you bring up a really good point about freeing up points for other stuff.

We've got another game coming up, I'll try and do better with documenting the battle, but since we have a hard out at 4pm since his kids get back from daycare, it's hard to take the time to photograph every turn.

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#88 Post by SpellArcher »

Prince of Spires wrote: With a scroll, you can pretty much shut down a complete magic phase (unless you have great winds).
On average yes Rod but it can get more complicated than that. Maybe the active player will be 6-dicing stuff, maybe he'll be going for multiple small casts. Leaving the scroll aside, sometimes two spells will go through, sometimes none. Where one player has a stronger phase than the other he may be able to push multiple spells through.
Prince of Spires wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:14 pm
The reason competitiveness comes into play is that in less competitive games, there are fewer min-maxed lists and you're not as likely to run into a very powerful magic phase which would simply ruin your army if it was left unchecked. It's like my skaven opponent who doesn't like taking Dreaded 13th. In such a setting the scroll is not as necessary to keep magic at bay.
This is a good point and why I agree with you and Tyrren that no scrolls could work with a small gaming group who know each other well. In broader terms though, the scroll is a balancing feature of the ruleset. For example, several armies have low Initiative and a single casting of Purple Sun can absolutely wreck them. A scroll leaves the chance of Irresistable Force, so it's not a guarantee but it does help to make it that a game's not over before it's even started. Daemons are perhaps the second strongest army in the game, despite not being able to take a scroll. This is deliberate, to compensate for their crazy resilience and refusal to Flee. Take everyone else's scrolls away and Daemons get very ugly, very fast.

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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#89 Post by Prince of Spires »

SpellArcher wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:18 pm
Prince of Spires wrote: With a scroll, you can pretty much shut down a complete magic phase (unless you have great winds).
On average yes Rod but it can get more complicated than that. Maybe the active player will be 6-dicing stuff, maybe he'll be going for multiple small casts. Leaving the scroll aside, sometimes two spells will go through, sometimes none. Where one player has a stronger phase than the other he may be able to push multiple spells through.
It definitely depends. With the dice in play, it's hard to say anything definitive on the subject. Even if you would start 2 games with the exact same armies and deployments they would play out differently simply because that's how dice work. You roll high or low for winds of magic early in the game, you mess up positioning so you can't make a charge, you roll well for combat and unexpectedly go through a unit in a single round, or alternatively, you roll snake-eyes for that insane courage roll.

A scroll helps you controle the first few magic phases of the game, after which positioning, having mages alive and viable targets is just as important as the actual spells you have. And some tactics are harder to shut down than others. A Book of Hoeth loremaster with decent winds is pretty tough to deal with. Even with a scroll he'll probably get a spell cast. It will just be a fairly low impact spell (compared to a Purple Sun against a low I army). Others will be easier to deal with.
SpellArcher wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:18 pm
This is a good point and why I agree with you and Tyrren that no scrolls could work with a small gaming group who know each other well. In broader terms though, the scroll is a balancing feature of the ruleset. For example, several armies have low Initiative and a single casting of Purple Sun can absolutely wreck them. A scroll leaves the chance of Irresistable Force, so it's not a guarantee but it does help to make it that a game's not over before it's even started. Daemons are perhaps the second strongest army in the game, despite not being able to take a scroll. This is deliberate, to compensate for their crazy resilience and refusal to Flee. Take everyone else's scrolls away and Daemons get very ugly, very fast.
Definitely. The scroll is an important balancing tool in an broader, all-commers gaming group. If you don't know who you'll face and how tough their army will be then a scroll can be golden, precisely because it helps you control a few magic phases. It also explains why I can usually get away with not bringing a scroll. My opponent doesn't like big magic, which means I can usually disspell the big stuff and suffer the rest in exchange for some more power elsewhere in my list. In a small group balance is less of a concern and fun and big moments are more important. For instance, I don't think I would take a dragon mage (or the shadow warrior + Alith Anar list we discussed) to a general gaming group or tournament. But I think I can get away with it against my regular opponent. It would be hard to score a win with one of those lists, but that's less the point in this setting. Same with the scroll.
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Re: Ulthuan Rallies for War

#90 Post by TyrrenAzureblade »

Been trying to find time to get some painting done, but after moving, and getting settled in, I was sapped of motivation and energy to get something done. But thankfully, after a vicious defeat at the hands of my friend's Skaven army, I found the motivation to paint up some Ellyrian Reavers to replace my Great Eagles that were constantly grounded by the Stormbanner, and some more Swordmasters to beef up my unit that was ravaged by the Curse of the Horned Rat. Still have so much to paint, and TONS of gems and eyes to go back to and detail and finish. But for now, here're some elves.

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