Tyrion and The everqueen
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Tyrion and The everqueen
It is said that Tyrion is consort to the Everqueen. Isn't she the consort of Finubar though? I only know of the term Consort used in the context of something similar to a spouse.
The ritual marriage between the Phoenix King and the Everqueen only lasts for one year. After that, they're free to choose different consorts if they so choose.
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[21:39:08] <Lethalis> Cenyu; I figured that with all the smoke that always seems to hang around you, you'd be used to it.
[21:39:49] <Cenyu> Bold words, flying Dutchman.
"Think of the Loremasters as irresponsible parents. VictorK is the one you need to talk to if you want permission for something, I'm the evil parent that says 'no' and Eldacar is your grumpy grandfather who fought in some war and is scary and authoritative." ~Ruerl Khan
"And believe me, I like my websites like I like my boyfriends: wild, free, and unlikely to give me a virus." ~Sirist
[21:39:08] <Lethalis> Cenyu; I figured that with all the smoke that always seems to hang around you, you'd be used to it.
[21:39:49] <Cenyu> Bold words, flying Dutchman.
The Phoenix King and the Everqueen are co-rulers.
The Everqueen will bear the Phoenix King a daughter to produce her successor and ensure the continuation of her line. They are both free to have as many partners as they wish after this.
Tyrion is the current consort of the Everqueen. She could drop him at any time, reinstate him, or just have a quickie on the side. She could fill up her court with a dozen consorts, but tradition would be against that.
The concept is primarily borrowed from Celtic sources, but you'll find examples worldwide.
The Everqueen will bear the Phoenix King a daughter to produce her successor and ensure the continuation of her line. They are both free to have as many partners as they wish after this.
Tyrion is the current consort of the Everqueen. She could drop him at any time, reinstate him, or just have a quickie on the side. She could fill up her court with a dozen consorts, but tradition would be against that.
The concept is primarily borrowed from Celtic sources, but you'll find examples worldwide.
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[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
[color=red]Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander[/color]
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[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
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None. In fact, I think he might be the first one to wish them well
Prince Deral Lionbane, head of the House of Lionbane, Lord of Lionstone and Warden of Tor Charta
Luna, try not to beat them too hard. They are proud about their pseudo-glorious past and their present nothingness, you know.
-Elmoth, about Caledorians
Luna, try not to beat them too hard. They are proud about their pseudo-glorious past and their present nothingness, you know.
-Elmoth, about Caledorians
The Everqueen will bear the Phoenix King a daughter to produce her successor and ensure the continuation of her line. They are both free to have as many partners as they wish after this.
I thought the Phienix king chooses the everqueen.
I thought the Phienix king chooses the everqueen.
Elf name: Celebriant Nethalowae
http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Handmaiden_of_Everqueen_CA.jpg
http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Handmaiden_of_Everqueen_CA.jpg
No. The Phoenix King gets elected; the Everqueen is hereditary succession.
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[color=red]Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander[/color]
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[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
[color=red]Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander[/color]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdU1F54FEOU]Crowbot_Jenny[/url]
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[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
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I disagree here. The consort should only be present when the Everqueen is present, so maybe an option for the Everqueen (if we ever get rules for her...)kineticdragon wrote:Consort of the Queen might make an interesting rare choice slot. It could be some type of warrior-mage hybrid that generates weird effects all around him...
Just thinking out loud.
Prince Deral Lionbane, head of the House of Lionbane, Lord of Lionstone and Warden of Tor Charta
Luna, try not to beat them too hard. They are proud about their pseudo-glorious past and their present nothingness, you know.
-Elmoth, about Caledorians
Luna, try not to beat them too hard. They are proud about their pseudo-glorious past and their present nothingness, you know.
-Elmoth, about Caledorians
Consort? For which Everqueen?
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[color=red]Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander[/color]
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[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
[color=red]Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander[/color]
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[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
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I was under the impression that there's only one Everqueen, who at the moment happens to be Alarielle. And yes, Alarielle's consort is Tyrion, but GW has dropped the ball so badly in the past, that I think I'm becoming dull to their failure to abide by fluff.
Prince Deral Lionbane, head of the House of Lionbane, Lord of Lionstone and Warden of Tor Charta
Luna, try not to beat them too hard. They are proud about their pseudo-glorious past and their present nothingness, you know.
-Elmoth, about Caledorians
Luna, try not to beat them too hard. They are proud about their pseudo-glorious past and their present nothingness, you know.
-Elmoth, about Caledorians
That's an interesting question.
Has Finubar had the opportunity to consummate the marriage? Is he sterile (would that disqualify him from Kingship)? Is he impotent (would that disqualify him from Kingship)?
Theoretically, Alarielle should have a daughter running around, since the Everqueen only consorts after fulfilling her duty.
Has Finubar had the opportunity to consummate the marriage? Is he sterile (would that disqualify him from Kingship)? Is he impotent (would that disqualify him from Kingship)?
Theoretically, Alarielle should have a daughter running around, since the Everqueen only consorts after fulfilling her duty.
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[color=red]Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander[/color]
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[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
[color=red]Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander[/color]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdU1F54FEOU]Crowbot_Jenny[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_1AfDgZttw]Sunrise[/url]
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[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
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I'd suppose that being sterile or impotent would disqualify him from kingship if it meant that he couldn't impregnate the Everqueen, but after that it wouldn't. So if the would-be Phoenix King would be impotent/sterile, he couldn't become king, but if he'd already done his part in ensuring that there's a new Everqueen, then I don't think anyone would care.
Think about it though. What kind of a rolemodel does the Everqueen set for her daughter? She gets pregnant, dumps her father, then fools around with whomever she likes. Sounds very modern to me
Think about it though. What kind of a rolemodel does the Everqueen set for her daughter? She gets pregnant, dumps her father, then fools around with whomever she likes. Sounds very modern to me
Prince Deral Lionbane, head of the House of Lionbane, Lord of Lionstone and Warden of Tor Charta
Luna, try not to beat them too hard. They are proud about their pseudo-glorious past and their present nothingness, you know.
-Elmoth, about Caledorians
Luna, try not to beat them too hard. They are proud about their pseudo-glorious past and their present nothingness, you know.
-Elmoth, about Caledorians
Considering that that is exactly what she wants her daughter to do at some point? Yes. She is being a good role model.
Though I wonder how many Everqueens there have been. Some Phoenix Kings might have the opportunity of skipping their duty if their predecessor had already produced the Everqueen's heir. Or maybe they double up in case of some unforeseen consequence. (cue G-man) Or maybe Phoenix Kings are like lions. They kill the previous Phoenix King's progeny and then make sure their own line endures.
Yeah.
Though I wonder how many Everqueens there have been. Some Phoenix Kings might have the opportunity of skipping their duty if their predecessor had already produced the Everqueen's heir. Or maybe they double up in case of some unforeseen consequence. (cue G-man) Or maybe Phoenix Kings are like lions. They kill the previous Phoenix King's progeny and then make sure their own line endures.
Yeah.
I always knew the White Lions killed kittens.
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[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
[color=red]Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander[/color]
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[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_1AfDgZttw]Sunrise[/url]
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[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
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But only huge, monstrous, chaotic, daemon kittens. Of doom
Prince Deral Lionbane, head of the House of Lionbane, Lord of Lionstone and Warden of Tor Charta
Luna, try not to beat them too hard. They are proud about their pseudo-glorious past and their present nothingness, you know.
-Elmoth, about Caledorians
Luna, try not to beat them too hard. They are proud about their pseudo-glorious past and their present nothingness, you know.
-Elmoth, about Caledorians
- Ruerl Khan
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Finubar and Alarielle will just have to keep at it, until they get it right.
The succession has never been endangered, or at least it's never been mentioned that it was. Since this is a ritualistic consummation, symbolizing the union between the Earth and the Sky, and possibly the compact between the Elves and their gods, it may be inferred that fertility and sex of the embryo may have been given a slight mystical nudge.
The succession has never been endangered, or at least it's never been mentioned that it was. Since this is a ritualistic consummation, symbolizing the union between the Earth and the Sky, and possibly the compact between the Elves and their gods, it may be inferred that fertility and sex of the embryo may have been given a slight mystical nudge.
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[color=red]Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander[/color]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdU1F54FEOU]Crowbot_Jenny[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_1AfDgZttw]Sunrise[/url]
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[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
[color=red]Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander[/color]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdU1F54FEOU]Crowbot_Jenny[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_1AfDgZttw]Sunrise[/url]
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[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
Yes. I strongly suspect the influence of Isha to make sure that when they get it on they get it right and produce a daughter. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Everqueen was otherwise infertile, but that's open enough to dispute that I wouldn't object strongly if someone wanted to use a bastard child of the Everqueen for some purpose.
As for hereditary rule...it's surprisingly absent in Warhammer, at least at the highest levels. The High Elves out and out rejected it for Malekith, and learned their lesson with Caledor II. Malekith, even if he was capable of having children, I suspect wouldn't want some son hanging around hoping for daddy's power. The Sigmarite Emperor is an elected position as well, though I have no reason to doubt that all lower nobility is hereditary, as it is in Ulthuan though there's room for advancement in both systems if you want to shift the power of your house. Little hope for the commoners, though.
As for hereditary rule...it's surprisingly absent in Warhammer, at least at the highest levels. The High Elves out and out rejected it for Malekith, and learned their lesson with Caledor II. Malekith, even if he was capable of having children, I suspect wouldn't want some son hanging around hoping for daddy's power. The Sigmarite Emperor is an elected position as well, though I have no reason to doubt that all lower nobility is hereditary, as it is in Ulthuan though there's room for advancement in both systems if you want to shift the power of your house. Little hope for the commoners, though.
I believe one of the Phoenix Kings is mentioned as having foregone the ritual marriage due to some crisis likely involving a Dark Elf invasion.Musashi wrote:Finubar and Alarielle will just have to keep at it, until they get it right.
The succession has never been endangered, or at least it's never been mentioned that it was. Since this is a ritualistic consummation, symbolizing the union between the Earth and the Sky, and possibly the compact between the Elves and their gods, it may be inferred that fertility and sex of the embryo may have been given a slight mystical nudge.
How this was resolved - whether he went through the marriage later, the Everqueen had a different heir, or the Everqueen at the time simply waited for the next Phoenix King - doesn't seem to be mentioned.
So if the everqueen died but the same pheonix king was still ruling would he have to marry his daughter for a year?
or...
Would she just wait for the next pheonix king?
and this also brings up the question that does a new ruler always constitute a new marriage? or does the king think "I have already did my purpose so its on to the next one"
also wouldn't this mean that caledor the second married his cousin or sister of some sort?
o-well I guess malekith bangs his mom so whatever. God elves are gross.
or...
Would she just wait for the next pheonix king?
and this also brings up the question that does a new ruler always constitute a new marriage? or does the king think "I have already did my purpose so its on to the next one"
also wouldn't this mean that caledor the second married his cousin or sister of some sort?
o-well I guess malekith bangs his mom so whatever. God elves are gross.
Unknown. He may marry his daughter, but not consummate it, and she'd just do what she has to do with the next Phoenix King to come along. Or it may indeed be necessary for her to produce an heir as soon as possible (as far as the Elves are concerned).arcarai wrote:So if the everqueen died but the same pheonix king was still ruling would he have to marry his daughter for a year?
or...
Would she just wait for the next pheonix king?
I do recall a theory that the Council of Princes was concerned that had Malekith been Phoenix King, he would be marrying his half-sister (which they were seemingly opposed to), but I'd have to check back to see if there are sources confirming it or not.
I would speculate that in general, they always have a year-long marriage (if just for ritual and tradition's sake). However, if the Everqueen has already produced an heir, one would imagine that there is no need for a second heir, and thus no need for the marriage to be consummated.and this also brings up the question that does a new ruler always constitute a new marriage? or does the king think "I have already did my purpose so its on to the next one"
Unless the Everqueen's daughter in that case had been brought around by Bel-Shanaar, yes.also wouldn't this mean that caledor the second married his cousin or sister of some sort?
Only by our standards. To them, all these odd relationships may be perfectly fine. And cousin marriage (or, rather, "marrying within the bloodline") has been encouraged in the real world in the past anyway.o-well I guess malekith bangs his mom so whatever. God elves are gross.
"Hi guys, I just want to say that for some unknown reason I dreamed the entire Lore team was on my roof last night and we were barbequing a marlin while discussing some rand stuff. It was vivid enough for me that my mother had to wake me up to stop me from mumbling and twitching, believing I was having a nightmare." ~Giladis
"Think of the Loremasters as irresponsible parents. VictorK is the one you need to talk to if you want permission for something, I'm the evil parent that says 'no' and Eldacar is your grumpy grandfather who fought in some war and is scary and authoritative." ~Ruerl Khan
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[21:39:08] <Lethalis> Cenyu; I figured that with all the smoke that always seems to hang around you, you'd be used to it.
[21:39:49] <Cenyu> Bold words, flying Dutchman.
"Think of the Loremasters as irresponsible parents. VictorK is the one you need to talk to if you want permission for something, I'm the evil parent that says 'no' and Eldacar is your grumpy grandfather who fought in some war and is scary and authoritative." ~Ruerl Khan
"And believe me, I like my websites like I like my boyfriends: wild, free, and unlikely to give me a virus." ~Sirist
[21:39:08] <Lethalis> Cenyu; I figured that with all the smoke that always seems to hang around you, you'd be used to it.
[21:39:49] <Cenyu> Bold words, flying Dutchman.
We'd need a list and chronology of the Everqueens to be sure.
I doubt that the fact that the Everqueen was his half-sister was the primary reason that Malekith was rejected as the next Phoenix King, but it certainly was one that was publicly bandied about.
I doubt that the fact that the Everqueen was his half-sister was the primary reason that Malekith was rejected as the next Phoenix King, but it certainly was one that was publicly bandied about.
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[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
[color=red]Surprise is an event that takes place in the mind of the enemy commander[/color]
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[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_1AfDgZttw]Sunrise[/url]
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[i]But this did not surprise them, for as it is written in the Great Elven Book of Knowing:[/i] Isn't life just one bloody thing after another.
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Also keep in mind that the Phoenix King is vetted by Asuryan. Since Asuryan's servants, the Phoenix Guard, are granted foreknowledge of their own deaths it's not too much of a stretch to assume that part of Asuryan's purview includes prophecy.
In other words, presumably a sterile or otherwise unfit prospective Phoenix King would not get Asuryan's approval to assume that role if it was necessary to produce another Everqueen or if circumstances (such as the aforementioned druchii invasion) truly endangered continuing Isha's chosen bloodline.
As a side note, I've always imagined that Malekith had most of his important (though sadly not his vital) parts burnt off when he murdered his way into the Temple of Asuryan and attempted to usurp the role of Phoenix King. That would certainly contribute to explaining his 4000+ year temper tantrum and the overly sexualized (overly compensating?) nature of the dark elven court. Symbolically losing his reproductive capability would also indicate Isha's disapproval of his actions as well since she one of her aspects represents fertility.
In other words, presumably a sterile or otherwise unfit prospective Phoenix King would not get Asuryan's approval to assume that role if it was necessary to produce another Everqueen or if circumstances (such as the aforementioned druchii invasion) truly endangered continuing Isha's chosen bloodline.
As a side note, I've always imagined that Malekith had most of his important (though sadly not his vital) parts burnt off when he murdered his way into the Temple of Asuryan and attempted to usurp the role of Phoenix King. That would certainly contribute to explaining his 4000+ year temper tantrum and the overly sexualized (overly compensating?) nature of the dark elven court. Symbolically losing his reproductive capability would also indicate Isha's disapproval of his actions as well since she one of her aspects represents fertility.
- Arellion Sapher
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:40 pm
- Location: Albion
Caledor II got everything wrong.Eldacar wrote:Unless the Everqueen's daughter in that case had been brought around by Bel-Shanaar, yes.also wouldn't this mean that caledor the second married his cousin or sister of some sort?
I always believed that a new Phoenix King equated to a new Everqueen, the previous incumbent stepping down.