Feelings about the new book

[Shadeseraph]

So, now that many of us have seen what seems to be most of the book, with a decent degree of precission, I'd like to know what everyone feels about the book.
Things like crushed hopes, likes, dislikes, new hopes... or just plain old nostalgia for all that left.

Personally, I would have liked more dragons. I liked the idea of MC drake/dragon cavalry, not because of the power of most MC on other armies, but because the reason I started HE back in 5th edition was that: Dragons! I would have loved to field an army chock-full of dragons, effective or not. And I don't like characters, so a unit of dragons, or drake mounted dragon princes would have been great.

Not complaining, though. The Phoenixes are gorgeous and devastating, and they bring a new air to the army that pleases the grown-up nerd in me, even if they can't fill the childish love for scaly winged beasts that still lingers. I will need some time to see if they can fill that hole.

I'm mostly looking forward the different builds the book seems to offer, compared to the dominantly elite infantry old book. The new book seems to push multiple playstyles forward, instead of stagnating on the elites we already know so well. Many of my favourite units, such as the ellyrian reavers or the maidenguard have received a nice push forward, and I welcome that quite a lot.
I'm also looking forward the new speed the book seems to bring. Despite of the claim and appearance of elves as fast, the old book felt a bit slow, even with cavalry "heavy" lists. I suppose part of it has to do with playing a lot against VC with their old 7th edition book. One dice spamming of Vanhel's is scary.

What will I be missing? Not much, really. I never got a real feel for the old book from a "entertainment" point of view. Swordmasters were cool, as were lions, but none of those really motivated me. Most of the things I'll be missing are more from a tactical point of view: I liked how swordmasters MSU worked, something the lack of rerolls has brought down hard, and I think I will miss those cheap and efficient heros with their unique cheap special items (+2 S, ASF, uses two hands, 8pts. You know what I'm talking about). I've never been a fan of killy characters, though (I ended using them because they were needed), and this books seems to focus a lot more on support characters, something I am very pleased with. And cheaper characters and less auto includes (archmage, book of hoeth instead of archmage, banner of sorcery, seerstaff/silverstaff) means I can spend more on troops, which is something I prefer.

I do think there are some missed opportunities, though. In addition to those drake riders, I've always felt the units are rigid, too rigid. Maybe it's because my other army is Tau Empire, in WH40K, who are customizable to hell and back, but the lack of options on the different units feels... boring. But, to tell the truth, it seems that's the way army book work on WHFB, a weapon swap is enough to justify a new entry on the army book. A bit bland for me, though.

Well, that's it from me. And you? What are your impressions, your hopes and losses?

[Tethlis]

This is definitely something I'll go into great detail on sooner or later, but I'll get the thread rolling. Having spent a good chunk of today trying to build simple 2500 point lists, it was much tougher than I expected it to be.

The big thing I feel the lack of is Arcane Items. Seerstaff, Banner of Sorcery, they really let us build an army whose primary offensive component was the Magic Phase. Before, the Magic Phase enabled us to shoot in the shooting phase, kill in close combat, and make it decisive.

Now, magic is taking a back seat. It's still important to us, but it's never going to be the same. Instead, the shooting phase seems to have stepped up in importance as the key facilitator for arranging successful close combats. I tried to build a number of lists, all making the conscious effort to be different from one another yet still adhere to my own playstyle, and I found myself purchasing tons of shooting units to fill the gap where magic used to be.

Even in a list where I said "okay, I'm going to have a Loremaster, an Archmage with Book of Hoeth, a regiment of Lions, a regiment of Phoenix Guard, and a freakin' Phoenix" I still ended up with 60 bow shots, two bolt throwers, and was scrounging to find a place for Maiden Guard because they're the only way to get rid of Regeneration for all those Strength 3 Arrows. I don't have confidence in our infantry or our cavalry to take down the really nasty stuff out there unassisted, which leaves magic and shooting to pick up the slack. Our magic got weaker, and our shooting... Hey, bolt throwers didn't go down in points by THAT much, and yet everyone's grabbing them up in pairs. It's not the point drop that's making them popular for me personally, it's the fact that they're now supposed to fill the same role that was previously occupied by two Strength 7 Banishments . I'm really looking forward to playing with more unit variety, and being less dependent on the magic phase, but is that going to equate to success?

On the topic of assembling lists: Since the Phoenix and a pair of bolt throwers feels so obligatory, it almost feels like I'm starting to build my lists down by ~500 points. I know that the Phoenixi and bolt throwers are useful, but I have a long history of bolt throwers failing me, and I've spent the last few years playing lists where the most monstrous thing I had on the table was an Eagle. Now with Phoenixii and warmachines rubbing elbows with chariots, three appealing types of cavalry, the same staple elite infantry... It feels more like a Fantastical Warhammer Fantasy army. I love the unit variety, but this adjustment is much more drastic than I thought it was going to be.

[Tetengo]

I would have liked dragon riders, partly because they would be cool, but mostly because they would be powerful. I suppose they would have competed with the Phoenix kit though, and since I'm eventually going to have at least four of those, I can see why they did it. Why release MC that can be taken in rare, when you can release an expensive kit that can be taken in rare, lords and heroes? I do love the Phoenix models (hence eventually having at least four), and the rules. I'm really excited to try them out, and I keep trying to include at least one in all the army lists I'm making.

I'm not so excited about the flying chariot and sisters though. They just don't seem as good for the points as other options we have available. Also, the Loremaster, he seemed amazing at first glance, but now knowing he doesn't have options for mundane equipment and comes with a great weapon I'm not so sure. Give him an arcane item and he will struggle in CC. Or focus on CC and we have to spend a lot of points on him to get a decent armour save I think, as he can't use a shield unless we also pay for a magic weapon. Will need to play a few games before properly judging him though.

My favourite thing about the new book is options. The amount of Lord options, varied core set ups and rare options we have is amazing. Plus the ability to make more themed lists, for example Phoenix Guard led by Anointed supported by Phoenixes; Sea Guard with Sea Helm and Skycutters; Swordmasters led by a Loremaster; Averlorn lists with the Everqueen, Handmaiden and Sisters. I know Chrace and Caledor didn't get any love, but people have been making themed armies from there forever, it'll be nice to see more armies from the other Kingdoms from now on.

Can wait until Saturday, I'm going over to Warhammer World to get everything and I'm really hoping they'll have the painted models on display in the museum they have there. Then I'll be going home and getting my first battle in. I have a feeling it'll be against a Daemon Prince and multiple Skullcrushers, so we'll see how good Ice Phoenixes and the BotWD really are.

[Xarhain]

Overall, I love it. Slightly disappointed with magic. It was rare that I went magic heavy, usually a medium magic phase, but I liked the option. Now there no choice. You just can't spend a lot of points on a phase where you can't generate power dice.

Which brings me to my only real large disappointment of the book. The dragon mage's reckless rule being nerfed. I guess they did it to stay in theme with the "nobody is allowed to generate bonus PD any more" but really it was the only thing the DM had going for it.

Gaining dragon armour, the S4 breath weapon and 3+ save for the dragon is exactly what the old dragon mage needed. Losing T6 on the mount is a shame but even with that, the Dragon mage would have been perfect. Still quite vulnerable, very expensive, but brought something unique and powerful to the table.

And then they nerfed reckless, and there's very little reason to take it, especially as we can now get heros on souped up griffons and "dragons" in rare.

[BGNLordHelmut]

I'm bummed at the lack of dragon integration beyond a single star/moon dragon lord or a dragon mage (though I'm still skeptical this is viable even with the armor addition.) The addition of the Phoenix choices are certainly lessening the disappointment and fluff-wise they're a great addition to the army, taking attention away from any dragons that do hit the table. The frost phoenix is going to be a centerpiece in competitive lists I would guess as it's a mobile debuff that can hold its own against quite a bit out there.

I'm still disappointed at some of the points adjustments to some units as well. Basic archers are still too expensive in comparison to a stock WoC warrior, although the Silver Helms point values are reasonable. Until I get to really build lists I can't comment too much more about that but I just have a general feeling some stuff is still simply too high in comparison to other competitive armies out there.

Magic definitely got nerfed, but IMO it needed it, and other areas needed boosting, which they got, most notably shooting. I like the direction GW went with the HE being a buff-machine army with utility mages sprinkled throughout, and those who wish to can still take a lvl4 with the new book and somewhat dominate the phase if they so desire (and roll half-decent).

All in all I am pretty happy with the new book, but I think we'll all have to wait and see how our games and lists perform. Looking good on paper is one thing, and winning 20-0 consistently is another

[vespacian1]

I'm going to jump on the disappointed with dragon treatment bandwagon. It seems like such a no-brainer given the background and fan-base enjoyment. But instead they decided to create a brand new unit that never existed before. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the phoenix rules. Almost as much as I hate the models.
So my easy solution is to proxy dragon models for phoenixes.
I'll have to see how it all plays on the board, but one thing I am excited with is that we finally have a few options that don't get obliterated by a stiff breeze. Anybody who has had 6 leadbelchers wipe out a 250 pt unit of elite infantry every turn knows exactly what I mean.
Lastly, I think the amount of lists populating the forum already is testament to the variability of the book. Our opponents will no longer be able to predict with accuracy what they'll face, which should make games much more fun in general.
Overall, just stoked to get my hands on it and start taking a maelstrom of dragon-phoenix proxies.

[BGNLordHelmut]

Anybody who has had 6 leadbelchers wipe out a 250 pt unit of elite infantry every turn knows exactly what I mean.

Been on the receiving end of that before as well. Having the option to rain fiery death from above by strafing that belcher unit with a Flamespyre is going to be very welcome indeed.

[Giladis]

I am mildly concerned about the strength of our book since my 2494 pts army suddenly fits into a 2000 pts game with some 30 points to spare. This will allow me to add two shooting Skycutters, two units of Shadow Warriors and fill up the points for Core.

edit@ and even then I'll have roughly 100 pts to spare

This confuses me quite a bit.

[Paricidas]

Coming from a meta that allows most Lores only to cast on 4 dice I creamed my pants when I read the rules for the book of hoeth. So two thumbs up for that!

10 Thumbs down for not having MC, very yery very disappointing.

Most new models that came out seem to be completly useless, which for me (and my wallet) is not that bad, because I will be set with a frostphoenix and can spend more time and Money on my darkelfs or something else that is not as buttugly as the new HE army.

[HERO]

Some are saying our magic phase is weaker? Does anyone else see the fault in that? Sure, we can't throw as many PD as before and we're not unstoppable in magic, but our spell flexibility has increased SO much it's not even funny. Before, I used to have 5-6 spells from a Lv.4 and Lv.1-2 supporting Mage as my go to. Now, I have 12 different spells to throw out, most of them useful from our AM/LM combo. As a magic heavy player, I am SO excited beyond words!

I guess those words are better left for our Prince/Star Dragon. I was so excited about having a T7 Star Dragon.. but after the points increase, that dream quickly faded. Many players like myself can't take what they want to take on the damn Dragon and now we're stuck looking at the benchwarmer Moon Dragon. While a Star Dragon can still be taken in a 2500 list, I'm quickly seeing the ineffectiveness of the points invested for such a "combat" monster.

[Teledor]

I think I have very mixed feelings as of now to be honest. I was incredibly disappointed with the lack of MC. I feel that will be a major flaw of our book as the rest of the armies get their 8th editions. I'm excited with the inherent flexibility though, a lot of options around. The magic items are somewhat underwhelming, but the banner and the book seem to be must haves. The banner if anything for the inherent miscast protection, not wrecking the DoC day... Looking at the book, I still feel like the same weaknesses we had before are mostly still there. We're still very fragile and expensive, lacking reliable tools against some of the things that bug us the most. The loss of archers being able to take a flaming banner is annoying. I'm almost forced to take MG, the most disappointing unit for me, or lack any ranged regen stopping unit. Somewhat annoying. The flying chariot I'm liking but I was hoping it'd be our Ironblaster or Skullcannon (not OP like these) taking down big nasties from a distance. But the Str 5, BS4 and 24" concerns me. If we had a ignore move and shoot penalty I'd be happier, but as of now a fat boy riding his chariot is nearly twice as accurate as our elves. Kind of sad. That's the fix I'm hoping for in the 9th, either tone down a cannon's accuracy or make their damage a D3 instead of a D6.

All that said, I think the Cav prince got a good boost. Pair him with a unridden frost Phoenix and that could be a powerful option.

[The Silly Dragon]

I am pleased with the book overall but am very dissapointed at the Shadow Warriors. New models and they still have crap rules and stats, heres hoping the AB is hiding something useful for them. Been wanting to do Nagarythe themed army for ages.

[finreir]

I am pleased with the book overall but am very dissapointed at the Shadow Warriors. New models and they still have crap rules and stats, heres hoping the AB is hiding something useful for them. Been wanting to do Nagarythe themed army for ages.

must be just you, bs5 ws 5 ld8 scout and skirmish for 14 points, cheaper at redirecting than reavers, confused by why you would say this. One of best things in new book just in a competitive slot

[finreir]

I am mildly concerned about the strength of our book since my 2494 pts army suddenly fits into a 2000 pts game with some 30 points to spare. This will allow me to add two shooting Skycutters, two units of Shadow Warriors and fill up the points for Core.

edit@ and even then I'll have roughly 100 pts to spare

This confuses me quite a bit.

easy to explain loss of asf on Gw guys.
and the movement from bottom tier army to middle tier army

[Silver]

HE were mid tier at worst with the last book, nowhere near bottom tier.
Which tier they sit in now remains to be seen

[Aerius]

Overall I am very happy with the book. What shocked me is how much more shooting I have. I tried writing a 2500 point list, and I have over 70 actual bow shots. And a bolt thrower. It is certainly different.

[RE.Lee]

I'm quite pleased with the rumoured rules. The loremaster is the most exciting bit, the phoenixes come second (though I will be using a 5th edition frost dragon as a proxy). Its good to see the maiden guard back, too.

I'm disappointed by high magic and most of the magic items (although the book is great this time around and so is the merlord shield).

[Shannar, Sealord]

I am pleased with the book overall but am very dissapointed at the Shadow Warriors. New models and they still have crap rules and stats, heres hoping the AB is hiding something useful for them. Been wanting to do Nagarythe themed army for ages.

must be just you, bs5 ws 5 ld8 scout and skirmish for 14 points, cheaper at redirecting than reavers, confused by why you would say this. One of best things in new book just in a competitive slot

The crazy part is I've been taking a lot less of specials then usual. I've been filling up my rare instead. Something that's never happened before.

[Tyr of Yvresse]

Im pretty dissapointed so far but knowing me ill end up liking it!

Anwyays... all the new gubbins such as the characters, sisters, Sky cutter and the phoenix are all pretty cool, awesome models and some really decent rules in there, loving the unit buffs from the characters, however I feel like they have neglected much of the old stuff and thats what puts me off the most about the new book, and all these new things seem like standard options to take if you want a good time.

For core having the options for reavers and silver helms is awesome more variety and dude I get to crack out my mounted list once again, however spears are sill crappy, same with sea guard I was hoping for a point decrease and they will always loose out to mounted core in my eyes now, and making up for the lack of anvil with pheniox guard instead.

Special's having all the chariots with a decrease, units and stubborn is pretty awesome, I always have trouble trying to squeeze them in and I love the models, shadow warriors are still a waste of points I was hoping for at least an extra hand weapon but there you go at least the took some points off. Swordmasters and Whitelions are my big problem I know they have martial prowess now but id rather have the re rolls and keep them at thier existing points. Phoenix guard are all good but wish they had unbreakable.

Im loving the rare, eagles, cheaper bolt throwers, kick ass sisters and bigger flaming birds .

Magic I feel is a bit crapper now with the loss of our magic items but that was going to come.

All in all I dont think the existing stuff has been dealt with well, its lack luster and i was hoping for soe fixes and tweaks across the board, and as I said it seems like we are being pushed to take the new stuff which sucks. Anyways lets see how it all pans out when the release comes!

[wisetiger7]

I really don’t want to come off as a ‘Negative Nancy’, but if I am being honest, I am going to have to be one of ‘those’ people.

First, THE GOOD: I love the Skycutter. When I first heard rumors of the flying chariot, I absolutely hated the idea. Thought it would look dumb. Thought it would play dumb. Then I thought about the strategic implications of flying impact hits and it grew on me (hopefully it fly marches!). Then when I saw pictures, I was pleasantly surprised it didn’t look like a pile of crap. I like the added quickness it contributes to our army, especially with core cav, allowing us to field a very fast army.

I love reavers, so when they moved to core, I was VERY happy about this. Units of reavers and eagles redirecting everything and controlling the board, opening up flanks, it’s just all well and good. Plus the decrease in seaguard (yes, they are my favorite 7th core, I’m weird) by a point helps.

The phoenix models don’t look too shabby. I think the riders look a little ridiculous on top of them, but whatever. The rules for them are okay. I am rather glad they didn’t make MC. I never liked the idea. I don’t like being like other armies. I like the uniqueness of the High Elves.

THE BAD: I’m going to have to disagree with HERO here on magic. Yes we get great spell versatility with our new spell setups. But when we can only cast 2 spells per turn (maybe 3 with book) with the average 7 dice, spell variety is a must. But will it make the difference? The loss of Banner or Sorcery and Reckless and other ways to generate PD is going to be a huge hit for us. Going from almost 10 PD to just a fraction over 7 PD on average is a giant hit. Yes, they dumbed down the Book so we will actually be able to take it without being nagged at. But nonetheless, the most magical race in the world, the race that halted the Chaos incursion, has been dumbed down to a race with marginally better magic than Empire.

Teclis: now, I’m not one who played Teclis much. In fact, I think I only played with him 2 or 3 times in all my games. Never used old Book of Hoeth either. I like strategy. But I also love the High Elf fluff. And what they did to Teclis is incorrigible:

His current nerf is:
475 --> 450
IF on doubles --> +1 to cast (Lvl 5)
+d3 PD/DD and first miscast protection every turn --> one use add a PD to each cast OR ignore a miscast AND THEN S1/T1 rest of game
Loremaster of any lore chosen at beginning of game --> Loremaster of High Magic only or choose a spell from each lore (spells must be written on list prior to game)

They made THE GREATEST LIVING MAGE in the world now no more useful than a properly kitted out Archmage, but costs 100-150 more. This makes me angry. With Teclis and Banner of Sorcery, we averaged 11-12 PD a turn. Now we get 7. That much of a nerf is ridiculous. Again, I don’t use special characters, but this just makes me angry. Oh and they give us a Loremaster who costs 5 points less than a bare Daemon Prince; yes I know a kitted out DP costs around 500ish, but he is more or less unkillable at that point.

So we get more spells. We don’t have the dice to cast them. So we get a lore attribute that gives us a stackable ward save. We don’t have the dice to cast the spells that will get us the ward save. One or two spells from High Magic, and our magic phase is over. 5+ ward save on a mage bunker anyone? Not to mention our loss of Arcane Items.

What happens to a High Elf army when it can’t get its buffs off? It falls apart. And yet we get no new units/rules that make up for this loss. Instead we get the loss of SoA, and it gets replaced with regular ASF. That makes Swordmasters fairly useless. White Lions, not much better (this statement is pending whether or not they give these units special great weapon/ASF rules). Martial prowess is just wasted on Swordmasters who are best in 5-7 man speedbumps. Yes, they made shooting slightly better. They reduced the archers by a point, sisters are alright, but not enough to compensate for the loss of magic. Shadow warriors are still useless. And with everything that MIGHT be able to compensate they throw into rare so we can only take 25% worth. That is maybe two phoenixes for most armies. Or a bunch of BTs and Eagles (I do love the flexibility of eagles now though).

I am a tad miffed about dragons. If they’re not gonna make them a rare option or offer up mini dragons as MC/Monstrous Beasts, at least make them cheaper for Asuryan’s sake! Sure the 3+ scaly is good, but same stats make them still vulnerable. Sure the S4 breath across the range is nice. But it’s still one breath attack in a world where salamanders get S4 every friggin turn, not to mention Warp Flame Throwers et al. Why the hell doesn’t a dragon breathe fire more than once?!? They’re frickin dragons!!! It’s ridiculous that they only get a one-off! If I’m paying 390 points for a dragon, it should breathe more than S4 once a game.

THE UGLY: For the most part, the new models look alright. Love the Skycutter and the phoenixes. But for Christ’s sake, why a transvestite hooker as Alarielle? Why is that tripping Loremaster throwing a jellyfish? And our spearmen/archers/silver helms still look ridiculous. It’s to the point where I just want to buy the champions from the IoB reaver units and use them as silver helms.

I know I’m just venting. I know that a lot of this is because I have gotten used to having a decent magic phase. A lot of my anger for the new book will fade as I adjust to the new changes and develop new strategies. But some of it I feel will stay with me for a while. The lack of/weakness/high cost of dragons is something that is just stupid. The whole Teclis nerf doesn’t reflect the fluff. Not wanting to take (or monetarily invest in) units because they’re abhorredly ugly won’t change, but at least that can be taken care of via alternative minis/customization/greenstuff. I do however, feel that the redeeming qualities of the new book will eventually overshadow the downfalls as time goes by. And hopefully, there are some things that were just so secret they were never leaked.

TL;DR - I like some stuff. I don't like other stuff. Overall, it's okay.

[Daedle]

From what I´ve seen it looks to be a very good book.
When looking at it from a point/use perspective, I think that besides the Dragon Mage and the Lothern Seaguards, almost every unit has a purpose for it´s point cost.
Dragon Princes might be inferior to Silver Helms when comparing prices, but they have their uses in some setups involving fire phoenix .

The loss of SoA, or reduction to ASF if you will, is a hard hit which the reduced point costs combined with the new synergies in the army makes up for that.
I am actually looking forward to make an army against my more competive opponents without having to include WL to deal with his elite warriors as I see new ways to handle them.
Also Phoenixes combine charging with units, hopefully helped on their way by our new magic can be used to deadly effect.
Of course our magic will not be as reliable as before due to loss of BoS, and more so goes for our countermagic with, but I am more in it for units doing the heavy work anyway .

The magic items are okay, and I like most of them. Yes even BotWD, but there is another post for that.

From what I see without having played it yet, it plays very much like 7th edition but with much greater variety and a demand to use the synergy between the different choices in the book.

Looking forward to get the dice rolling and see if I am right.

[Baeronvonbleat]

Pros

Slight discount in Core units
Silverhelms/Reavers moved to Core (greater variety in core choices)
Shadow Warriors discounted
Chariots/Bolt Throwers discounted
Eagles get ASF? Re-roll to hit make them less likely to attack with foam claws!
Griphons - Priced and with ASF option makes them get re-rolls to hit as well! Nicely done, may use them.
White Lions and Sword Masters discounted
Phoenixes - Added Synergy!
Discount to Archmages
Book of Hoeth - No longer an autoban!
High Magic - All spells useful, and a self buffing effect which adds strategy
Dragon Armour - 6+ Ward is a nice buff for the Dragon Princes!
Asuyran - Nice self ward gives a lord who can build into other things! In fact, ward save through normal means allows us to get characters that we don't need to focus on defense magic items as much
Martial Prowess - I like a nice phoenix guard fighting unit. With ASF remaining, this unit only gets more powerful with the new martial prowess rule, without loss.
Enchanted Shield Discount!!! - lol, minor thing, but enchanted shield is now only 5 points!

Cons

Dragons - Overall, left the same, or more expensive. Although the breath weapon increase is nice imo, nothing much has changed.
Dragon Princes - MC!!! I was really looking forward to a unit like this. Although not game breaking that we didn't get it, they would have been fun to field.
For love of Great Weapons - Great weapons are no longer the buzz saw staple we loved so much.
Less magic items - It's still a nice section than some of the other 8th edition army books, but our item selection really got gutted. Which is sad, now that we don't have an auto-take with great weapons, we're finally looking forward to using our magic weapons.
Weaker magic phase - No +D3 Power dice, no +1 power dice, no stealing a power dice for a dispel dice. Across the board cuts to what we can do with magic, inability to take a 10 point extra spell (Silver wand), or pick our spells. We're given over to an even greater abundance of chance in our spell selection. Color me nervous.
Armour of Caledor - No cheap alternative to get 2+ AS. Fortunately, I've got mundane armour to take now that not everyone is wielding a great weapon, but this and helm of fortune will be sorely missed from my army selection.

Overall - For most of 8th edition, I've had little variety in core, some variety in what infantry I wanted to take, I took at most one bolt thrower, and if I was taking a chariot or two, I was taking a pretty big hit. Now we've got a lot more creativity to play with when we field units. With some nice character builds, spell buffs, and unit compositions which as high elves we've learned to do creative things with a fairly fixed selection, now we've expanded the selection three fold.

It will cost us our beloved mix and matches with heroes. But there are still builds to play with, and the shift from "auto-take great weapons" to other builds will really be interesting to look for. I don't see the book as game breaking, but rather finally freeing High Elves to enjoy a freedom and creativity we've been waiting for in 8th edition.

A well written book so far, here's hoping the play testing won't result in it being bent.

[Prince of Spires]

I am mildly concerned about the strength of our book since my 2494 pts army suddenly fits into a 2000 pts game with some 30 points to spare. This will allow me to add two shooting Skycutters, two units of Shadow Warriors and fill up the points for Core.

edit@ and even then I'll have roughly 100 pts to spare

This confuses me quite a bit.

I've said this before as well when I plugged in the new points cost and noticed this. I get to keep my army and can add 400 pts of extra goodies. We're defiantly going up in power. A lot more I thin then people realise.

Rod

[Mireadur]

I dont like anything in the new book. I hate mat Ward and all he's done to our elves. They've turned the book into some kind of donatella Versace with so many plastic surgery that you cant recognize the face anymore.

Instead adding heavier (and ithilmar) armour to the book he gave ward saves everywhere and not happy with this he made it worse with the high magic increasing all these saves. I also wonder who is ever going to use a prince anymore having the chance to use chosen of asuryan +3 mages for the ward save buffing all around.

In reality this has happened more or less to every 8th edition book with patches over patches trying to fix the unfixable and ending up with an abortion..

Well, those are my feelings anyhow. I dont mind people who might like the book and not trying to convince anybody about my point of view!

[Celendur]

Cautiously thrilled by what I hear of the new book.

Biggest Bonus: new units! I've used HE for over 20 years now (ffff....) and although there's been a slow evolution of units, there's never been such a surge of new troop types. Looking forward to converting models to fit my fluff.

Mundane Middle: Magic. I've followed Swordmaster's lead on MSU, and ditched the Banner of Sorcery from my lists a few months ago. The new BoH replaces the Annulian Crystal nicely while improving my use of magic. Shaping up very nicely.

Cautious Crapshoot: blockier models. The Loremaster in particular lacks the... finesse... you'd want in a High Elf. But perhaps they're better in the flesh than on the screen.

Dazed and Confused: MC would be nice, but are possibly overrated. I'm glad I never caught the Dragon boy bug, I'd hate to be disappointed too! Our magic is even more efficient and reliable, which is arguably better than raw power; passive buffs and improved shooting make up for a lot. I love the look of High Magic, really impressed by the spells, the Lore Attribute is powerful but carries an opportunity cost - very nicely designed.

[MartinElf]

i can say my feelings for the new book in 15 words

I love the new book on paper, i cant wait to play test it lots

[wisetiger7]

What's aggravating is that they have the +1 to ward save as the high magic lore attribute, but the mage (Loremaster) you actually don't mind getting into combat to utilize the ward save isn't able to cast high magic spells. That makes the Lore attribute just more of a mage bunker buff. Not that we can get the save up that high anyway with the few dice we get per phase now.

I do like the Book of Hoeth now though. And it probably won't get banned.

PS. I like how the book hasn't even come out yet and people on whineseer are already talking about banning stuff. LOL

[ducky11]

What's aggravating is that they have the +1 to ward save as the high magic lore attribute, but the mage (Loremaster) you actually don't mind getting into combat to utilize the ward save isn't able to cast high magic spells. That makes the Lore attribute just more of a mage bunker buff. Not that we can get the save up that high anyway with the few dice we get per phase now.

I do like the Book of Hoeth now though. And it probably won't get banned.

PS. I like how the book hasn't even come out yet and people on whineseer are already talking about banning stuff. LOL

Actually combining the lore attribute on an archmage with the book with an anointed and your entire unit is receiving a 4+ ward save pretty much every turn. 4+ ward swordmasters or white lions? Yes Please. Some high magic phases will even allow you to pull out 3 spells and a 3+ ward. Combined with the anointment's MR and you have quite a strong unit right there.

[Optimistic]

I'll have to reserve ultimate judgment on the book until I can get several play tests in with different builds, but currently I'm a little apprehensive on the release. The loss of SoA as well as the vast majority of our magic items (although to be fair I fully expected this under the new 8th norm but I really loath it) has left me with a real sour taste. Personally I'm not sold on the new high magic either, the 18" range on a lot of the spells really bites, but it does have promise. What I don't understand is people planning on getting a 4+ ward on a big combat block and claiming this as a huge buff for us, that would entail you either charging into combat, or having been in combat prior which your Mage survived somehow, and then hoping to cast 3 successful spells all the while without items which bost power dice, wishful thinking much?

Really really not happy with our dragons either, I expected so much more from monsters which can supposedly go toe to toe with greater demons. Did our star dragon really need a damn point hike, I mean c'mon, not to mention it also lost the dragon armor protection, which at 20pts is just not ok. Not to happy with a lot of the changes for our special characters either, but at least the everqueen got some love. I'm glad we finally got some diversity in core, though why tiranocs remain special ill never know, and dam would I have killed for a bs 5 RBT.

[Gondarion]

I am mildly concerned about the strength of our book since my 2494 pts army suddenly fits into a 2000 pts game with some 30 points to spare. This will allow me to add two shooting Skycutters, two units of Shadow Warriors and fill up the points for Core.

edit@ and even then I'll have roughly 100 pts to spare

This confuses me quite a bit.

This right here, not the new toys, is the major improvement in the book. Points savings are going to keep adding up and this alone will make all kinds of builds competitive, in my view.