How do you invade Ulthuan?

[Artemis360]

Hey all

I'm putting together an event that depicts an invasion of Ulthuan by the Druchii and various allies (O&G, Chaos etc). I want to ask all you well informed-veterans, in more detail than is available in the army books, how do you think Malekith goes about staging an invasion of Ulthuan? What do you think his step-by-step procedures are?

Thanks.

[ceyl-isha]

Well Malekith has spies LOTS OF SPIES!!! so a small revolt some where is a good start. he'd then use it as a distraction and sack a small port to set the stage and do some lightning raids at all the comunuication lines. To sumerize all the Cannon.

Ulthuan is his back yard so theres lots of ways in for him.

Or magic...

[Ptolemy]

Read Defenders of Ulthuan. Malekith invades Ulthuan. Apparently, the answer to destroying an island of some of the most powerful mages in the world is to build a boat bridge.

[Jimmy]

He'd need a lot of luck.

A lot of magic I feel to throw the supposedly largest navy in the old world off their trail, make landfall and then get to work.

Obviously though I would think as soon as any epic spell goes us to shroud them the High Elves would know about it and I'm sure the Ulthuan Navy has dealt with this type of thing several times in the ages.

When/If they made landfall I'm sure they'd have a nice group of silver armoured warriors just waiting for them and starting getting rained on with ilthimar arrows whilst getting death rained on them from Dragons.

Then it would begin.

[Artemis360]

So you guys don't think assassinating the Everqueen or Finubar would be a priority?

A lot of this is good stuff but the real headache I'm having is figuring out what a game set in Chrace or Tiranoc or Ellyrion etc would be like. What kind of role do you think these places play in enemy invasions?

[Ptolemy]

So you guys don't think assassinating the Everqueen or Finubar would be a priority?

I really don't want to spoil things...but...read Defenders of Ulthuan.

[Elessehta of Yvresse]

The mists keep the south west safe now a days, so invasion normally starts in the north, The Shadow Lands are normally ground zero, since the Sundering there isn't much of Tiranoc left, and Ellyrion is normally a big target if they manage to get through one of the gates in the mountains. Assassinating the Phoenix King or Everqueen is always a goal, it's not easy though, they try it every time!

[Prince of Spires]

So you guys don't think assassinating the Everqueen or Finubar would be a priority?

I really don't want to spoil things...but...read Defenders of Ulthuan.

+1

If you want to know how Malekith invades Ulthuan, read Defenders of Ulthuan. Because that is exactly what happens in the book.

Having said that, how Malekith did it in that book is probably not the best way to do it. Basically: don't use the most heavily defended place you can find to make a naval assault. While it went reasonable in the book, it leads to heavy losses which in any invasion would be unacceptable.

Before any invasion, you would probably need to deal with Tyrion and Teclis, since both are a one man army.

Given the long coastline and spread out population I would first chose to employ small raiding forces. Destroy small towns, burn crops, that sort of thing. Spread out all along the coast to prevent adequate reaction. And keep the force small enough so it's not readily detected at sea and no big deal if you lose it.

After that, deal with the outer kingdoms first. Land in 2 or 3 places in the outer kingdoms so the HE have to split up their forces (so that even if T&T are still around, they can't be everywhere at once). I would probably pick the Tyranoc / Nagarythe border (near Tor Anroc), Cotique and somewhere in Caledor / Eataine where there is a good beach head.

This way you can put presure on the mountain forts/gates, force the HE to spread out their forces. And, even if they defeat one of your forces, they can't quickly relocate the rest of them to fight your other forces.

Depending on how many troops you have, all 3 of them can be a full army or one of them can be a token invasion force that is more about harrassing the enemy and keeping them occupied then actually capturing and holding places.

After that, basically see how it goes.

Rod

PS: did anyone else thing in defenders of ulthuan / sons of elyrion (I think) that when the great eagles first spot the DE force and everyone is worried that they have to act quickly, that if you followed the army book, one of the great eagles would have landed in front of the army, sacrificing himself and stalling them for a turn?

[tdc]

Given the long coastline and spread out population I would first chose to employ small raiding forces. Destroy small towns, burn crops, that sort of thing. Spread out all along the coast to prevent adequate reaction. And keep the force small enough so it's not readily detected at sea and no big deal if you lose it.

After that, deal with the outer kingdoms first. Land in 2 or 3 places in the outer kingdoms so the HE have to split up their forces (so that even if T&T are still around, they can't be everywhere at once). I would probably pick the Tyranoc / Nagarythe border (near Tor Anroc), Cotique and somewhere in Caledor / Eataine where there is a good beach head.

Not sure caledor and eataine would be good starting points though, the mountains and dragons would make caledor a tough place to form an effective beach head, and Eataine... large standing army, heavily fortified place... i'd take this last, attacking from both land and sea

[Prince of Spires]

Not sure caledor and eataine would be good starting points though, the mountains and dragons would make caledor a tough place to form an effective beach head, and Eataine... large standing army, heavily fortified place... i'd take this last, attacking from both land and sea

Ah, but if you don't engage Caledor and/or Eataine, then that large standing army and those dragons are free to support the rest of ulthuan.

You don't have to point your main strength at Caledor/Eataine. It's probably best if you don't for the exact reasons you name. However, if you manage to keep them busy for a time with a small force that is big enough to be considered a treat, then that is a big win. Taking the dragons out of the equasion in other parts of ulthuan and create local superiority elsewhere.

Rod

[Larose]

Hmm two fronts would be key, however the fortress gates are pretty much impregnable with a full garrison and the port of Lothern is the crown jewel. I'd definitely leave a black arc or two in the southern seas to pose threat, skirmish and maybe even take the lighthouse, a full counter attack would be expected and would be the time to hit Cothique and force march to Tor Yvresse. The goblins did a number on it and it's defenses are slim, yet the fortress itself would provide a huge foothold into the inner kingdoms. The fortress gates were most likely built in mind with a frontal assault from the outter kingdoms, so they would be easier to take as well.


P.s. but of course the yvresse prince, Athel Anarhain (Tiralya) would see the weakness and put this dark elf plan to folly Sooo.. Lol

[Elessehta of Yvresse]

P.s. but of course the yvresse prince, Athel Anarhain (Tiralya) would see the weakness and put this dark elf plan to folly Sooo.. Lol

HaHa~ Well played Sir. There are many amazing Yvressi generals, Elessehta in the south is just one of many, upon hearing of invasion, he would be on his griffon Tiralya in a heartbeat, telling Ohta'relen to move the army north while he heads to the Armis Kormalin to get in touch with the other Griffon Lancers.

[Oberon]

I'm going to have to weigh in here.

I think we're all thinking too small here. Given that each invasion of Malekith has failed for thousands of years, this kind of undertaking is bigger than he's ever dreamed. It may be his hubris that simply blinds him from the immensity of what he is trying to achieve through the conquest of his homeland, but for whatever reason, Malekith doesn't think outside of the box and he doesn't seem to have good short term objectives beyond: Ulthuan! Its MINE!

This isn't the Old World, this isn't Tilea, this is Ulthuan we're talking about. By its very nature, this lone island is the most impregnable piece of land in Warhammer. Giant mystical creatures, the most martial of all the sylvan races and nature itself defends this sacred ground.

Rod is on the right track with his idea of harassing forces, delaying forces and invading forces. But there is a lot more when it comes to planning and executing such a monumental task, and its not something the Druchii, alone, can accomplish.

1.) Malekith would have to secure alliances with either Chaos Warlords, the Undead or an Orcish Waaagh. However, the latter two are problematic because they have little seafaring traditions and no navy to speak of. Chaos on the other hand does have a very warlike maritime tradition, which makes them prime candidates to be either brought in as 'equal' partners or simply mercenaries. Beyond alliances, he would also need to further bolster his ranks with mercenaries of all kinds. I would seek Ogre warbands to add to the main invasion force out of the Dark Elf homeland. I would also hire Chaos Dwarves and force them into developing greater killing technologies that will give the Druchii an initial edge in their invasion. Other mercenaries may be those out of Tilea, perhaps in the form of privateering galleons. I know we snicker at humans and the puny ideas of seamanship, but the black powder broadsides will certainly add punch and versatility to a Dark Elf flotilla.

2.) Beyond gathering this kind of force, Malekith would begin a campaign of raids all across Ulthuan. The objective would be to gather intelligence, troop strengths and disrupt supplies and communication. Each Elven kingdom would be on alert and maintaining their own borders, tying down troops to guard duty instead of acting as a mobile reserve.

3.) Since we have a history of invading from the North in Nargarythe; Malekith should make all of his intents and false intelligence lean towards another invasion of the Shadowlands. Allow the Elves time to reinforce that area, give them the confidence they need.

4.) Construct an enormous token fleet in the harbors of Nagrond and allow the High Elves to see the work going on (don't make it too easy of course). This is going to further their belief that the hammer will fall hardest again on the Shadowlands.

5.) Meanwhile, having moved the greater portion of the Dark Elf fleet south and west. Malekith links his forces up with several Ogre warbands and takes on fresh supplies. This main portion of the fleet carries many Sorceress', capable of maintaining the mists and storms so that the fleet remains hidden from High Elf eyes.

6.) Our main effort is going to focus on the straight of Eataine. Our goal is to capture either side of the channel and attain naval supremacy of the inland sea. This creates a narrow avenue of approach for our enemies and allows us to maintain our tactical advantage against the possible numerical superiority of the home nation. Control of the inland sea prevents rapid redeployment of the bulk of the elven forces situated in the north, waiting for an invasion that would not come.

7.) After the initial landings and invasion, the Druchii fleet would split into two, maintaining a large armada at the point of the landings and another the would begin to hunt down smaller elven squadrons, spread out around Ulthuan, defending against the raiders. With the bulk of the High Elf fleet situated around Nargarythe, there would be some time for the Druchii to continue to consolidate their power around the foothold. The objective here would be a decisive fleet engagement that would give the Druchii naval superiority all around Ulthuan as well. This is where the demonic inventions of the Chaos Dwarves or Tilean gunpowder would be effective.

8.) As the invasion enters its third and fourth months; the High Elves would have maneuvered into position against the Druchii in Lothern. But because of the tactical advantages afford to the Druchii with control of the channel and the inland sea, they would be nearly immovable, even against a superior foe. At this phase of the plan, Malekith would order the assault of his allies, most likely a few Chaos Warlords. Their objective would be a supporting attack against Cothique and northern Yvresse. With this deep assault on Elven supply bases, the Eastern side of Eataine would grow weaker as High Elves were siphoned off to fight against the new invasion.

9.) Malekith launches a counter attack against the east and shatters the weakened besiegers, effectively conquering East Eataine and eliminating any real military threat from Yvresse and Saphery (who are now desperately fighting against marauding Chaos Warriors in the north). Then, utilizing his control of the inland sea, Malekith executes a brilliant amphibious assault on the rear of West Eataine and the High Elf army group there (a la Inchon Landings). Now, the besieged encircles the besiegers and crushes them. These two victories would put each Ulthuan kingdom on the defensive. At this point, some princes may even start to seek parley with the Witch King.

10.) Ulthuan falls. Chrace, Yvresse and Caledor hold out the longest against the onslaught, but are eventually razed to the ground. The Shadow Warriors act in concert with the few surviving Swordmasters and fight a gorilla war that will continue for centuries.

Without reinforcement from the Empire, Athel Loren, Lustria or Bretonnia, this is how I see it going down. There is obviously risk involved, but an endeavor like this is fraught with risk. Think in terms of the Allied Invasions of the Reich. Overwhelming force on a single strip of beach. Maintaining the defense of the beach head until enough strength has been brought ashore: then breakout! Lothern in this case is Northern France and Cothique is Italy. But the terrain of the channel of Lothern gives an invader who captures it a huge swing in initiative, because the key to conquering Ulthuan is controlling the inland sea. Without it, you have no hope of dominating the Island.

Edit: Tyrion and Teclis do have the power to turn single battles around, but campaigns like this are not one in single battles and like a poster said earlier: the twins cannot be everywhere at once. Assassinating them would be a bonus, but not essential to victory. Assassinating the Phoenix Kind and Everqueen, likewise, are bonuses, but non-essential.

Of course, Tor Yvresse would never allow this to come to pass! We are Resolute. True to the End!

[jwg20]

I agree with the vast majority of what Oberon said. That is probably the best way to do it.

About Malkeith's invasion focusing on Lothern: I think this is key. It was not stupid by any stretch of the imagination: taking Lothern is the key to any successful invasion of Ulthuan. Realize what the strait of Lothern does: it closes off a body of water, so elven ships can navigate the inner sea without any issue. The inner sea is exactly the type of thing a defending army would want: an open area for direct, rapid transport of troops and supplies (much more rapid than overland voyages). Ships crossing the strait can cross fully laden with elves, supplies, and equipment, without any threat of attack (they could load ships more heavily than they would if an attack was likely). This allows much more rapid transportation of troops and supplies from the eastern to western arcs of Ulthuan. If, however, Malkeith was able to take Lothern, he could flood the inner sea with dark elf ships, making travel dangerous and, in the best case scenario for him, completely close it off. This would then have the opposite effect: the Dark Elves could easily move troops from point to point along Ulthuan while the Asur were left to overland marches to redeploy armies. It would separate the various armies of the kingdoms and make them unable to respond to any Druchii maneuver in a timely fashion. This is compounded by the fact that Lothern is the current capitol, and by taking it, it not only robs the Asur of the most secure defensive position and removes a huge tactical advantage that is the inner sea, it also deals a psychological blow by capturing the capitol and killing the Phoenix King.

That is why I think he attacked Lothern. Malkeith may be mad, but he is not stupid. He understands the tactical advantage gained by the Inner Sea, and for that reason, I think he was fine with any loss of life sustained in order to take it. Coldhearted and calculating; the worst traits to face.

[Larose]

Hmm all good tactics, however the straights of Lothern were described as sheer cliffs with battlements carved into the walls, in the book defenders of Ulthuan. Which is sheer suicide... Although he did find a good solution to it.. Haha not going to spoil things.

Anyway I know the witch king cares not for loss of life, however his troops arent limitless and I think we all forgot about the one weakness to Ulthuan. The waystones (if that's what it's called cant remember at the moment lol ) that channel the magic. The goblins almost destroyed Ulthuan with the sacking of Tor Yvress. The witch king loves destruction so by taking the weakened city would he not threaten the whole island with one blow? And either accept their surrender or lose the whole island?

Just a thought

[Elessehta of Yvresse]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the Witch King wants Ulthuan, he wouldn't want it destroyed or covered in deamons, wasn't that his mother?

[Oberon]

I didn't read defenders of Ulthuan. Is what I described what happens in the book? It seems like the best option to me. The composite risk of the operation is certainly acceptable when you consider the objective.

I apologize for my terrible sentence structure of my previous post. It was a stream of conscious bit. I read it again and blanched at the grammar atrocity I had created.

However, sheer cliffs or no, Lothern is the only objective worth taking. That's also why any invasion would require auxiliary allies in the tens of thousands. Malekith will need fodder. Ogres seem to be the perfect forlorn hope and Warriors of Chaos would perform admirably in a semi-autonomous role.

Remember, malekith is not a destroyer for destruction's sake bad guy. He definitely has a goal that drives him: the conquest of his birth right. He has a psychological need to subjugate his enemies in order to demonstrate his greatness.

[Larose]

True, although in the book his mother says he likes to destroy, remember the Sundering? Um so I dunno, I guess his mother would be the one to really want to destroy it. But he could definitely keep it hostage ? And I'm sure the dark sorcerers could find ways to have it release enormous power on Ulthuan, such as the inner sea with storms and earthquakes. The high elves would be at his mercy.

[Rabidnid]

I would use a fleet of merchant ships loaded with orcs, and skaven submarines.


Dark elf mariners and sorceresses would crew the merchant ships and disguise themselves as a returning trade fleet. The skaven submarines would be locked to the keels of the merchant ships. Once the merchant ships are berthed in the harbour, the skaven submarines would separate and attack the stationary HE warships and jam the inner gate to prevent reinforcements for reaching the bay from the inner sea. The batter would now be Orcs versus HE elves in the streets of Lothern. Once the orcs control the defences more ships loaded with skaven and whoever else can be talked into a boat (ogres?) are sent ashore to add to the mayhem.

Once the HE rally and begin to push back against the forces in Lothern, the rest of the DE invade from the north as usual. Caught between the two forces, the HE are stretched to the limit. Which would be a great time for the norse to invade again.

[ceyl-isha]

All good ideas but the best way (if we are all playing "how to") and not helping to make an easy board game campaign is just come in and peacefully breed your way into control. Morathi kinda did it with cultists but she made a mistake buy going radical and forming terrorist groups. You just mask one person at a time in and fold them into positions of power until your like a boiled frog.

You don't take a small island buy crashing the whole world onto it you just slip one more warm body into every resource tell there all gone.

Id rather stick a dagger into the hart of the enemy thats taking the food out of my mouth but taking his job and watching him starve is just as easy.

[Tengal Krakenbane]

I like Rabidnid's ideas, would just like to add that you're much better off spicing that setting to some degree of randomness. As far storytelling goes, it's a bit odd to just say the DE have a bunch of reliable allies hopping on their ships to aid them. At least make the DE squabble with the Orcs and other "allies" once they've looted the hell out of Ulthuan. What would be really interesting that if Malekith manages to just about subdue the High Elves he'd have to fight off the greenskins while the Asur rally, with perhaps support of their own.

[Rabidnid]

I like Rabidnid's ideas, would just like to add that you're much better off spicing that setting to some degree of randomness. As far storytelling goes, it's a bit odd to just say the DE have a bunch of reliable allies hopping on their ships to aid them. At least make the DE squabble with the Orcs and other "allies" once they've looted the hell out of Ulthuan. What would be really interesting that if Malekith manages to just about subdue the High Elves he'd have to fight off the greenskins while the Asur rally, with perhaps support of their own.

Initially I see Malekith's will, and the self interest of the allies, keeping the allies together. Once they are ashore though, all bets are off and it will go to hell. I see the orks, DE and Norse picking over the bones of Ulthuan as it collapses. A few HE rustic's in the mountains aren't going to be enough, facing a 3 front war with no fixed defences to hold, once a couple major cities fall.

[Truthiness]

At the suggestion of those in this thread I went and read Defenders of Ulthuan and Son of Ellyrion. Good fun reads. It went and got me excited for the next High Elf army book. Not to spoil Defenders of Ulthuan, but I'd say they pretty blatantly set up the next Army Book to have Dragons all over the place. Now I'm gonna have to make a Caledor army...