ducky11 wrote: But thats it I just dont see how they start at a disadvantage, especially against VC and DE. I get DoC, but even DE and VC start at a disadvantage against them.
It's pretty well accepted knowledge that everyone, not just high elves, starts at a disadvantage against all three of these armies. So, to be honest, arguing that we don't seems pretty silly.
I'd actually argue that I find myself matching up better against demons than the other two. I'm not saying that I find them easier, just that we have some tools that other armies don't that can help us.
Except that we don't play in a vacuum, so while our match-ups are excellent one-on-one, they don't break. They also typically have more models than we do so that means that a good vamp player will force us to get stuck in and then flank us.ducky11 wrote:
VC are T3 troops, who with the exception of a few select troops depend entirely on static CR and feer to win their battles. A big block of 20 spears will just about NEVER lose combat to a huge unit of zombies or skelies cuz they kill so many, white lions with a banner are impervious too, DP need to win the first round of combat whether the enemy causes fear or not... etc etc... VC are a very good and competitive army but I do not see what all the fuss is about.
Most average or above average vampire generals I see don't take these guys.ducky11 wrote: Blood Knights are awesome but way too overpriced and we have multiple units that can kill them in a heartbeat.
Not sure what you mean here by defensive magic. Are you talking invocation? As for ASF again, they have a few things that can make it difficult for high elves that allow their vamps to go first.ducky11 wrote:
They have NO shooting, and there magic is almost wholly defensive (if they are smart). So our ASF t3 troops will be at full or almost full strength when they get into combat and you say we are at a disadvantage?
The new, DE I admit I have never played against, however I know that our spears would destroy them, just as they do any t3 troopers without amazing armour. I have seen battles against them though, and I know we have solutions for their better shooting phase.
You need to play more games. Simply computing one unit against another doesn't work. I play both armies and when I use my high elves, I have to play a much more mistake free game.
This comparison isn't even remotely useful or valid. Comparing a 175 point rare choice that is very much underpriced to a 600 point model that takes up a lord and hero slot in laughable. When a high elf player takes a dragon, that's pretty much what your opponent has to worry about. On the other hand, when a DE player has a hydra, they have to worry about that and whatever else you might bring because you still have a whole lot of army left.ducky11 wrote: their hydra is OPed apparently, well guess what so is our star dragon lol.
I agree that HE are a solid army, but they do have some clear weaknesses. Last night I played a Chaos Mortal army (and it was his first game with them) and both of us had "balanced" type lists. I clearly outmaneuvered him, getting into very few fights that were not on my terms. He failed every single break test that he had to make, and all were with the bsb nearby, as well as some other key psych tests. I also outrolled him a bit. In the end, my outmaneuvering and the luck of the dice going my way netted me a 3 point minor victory. Had I played with my dark elves (a balanced list), I'm pretty confident the final result wouldn't have even been close.ducky11 wrote:
Im not saying our book is the strongest im saying our book has its strengths (some of which, like spear elves, people do not recognize) and its weaknesses just like VC, just like DE, and yes at least to a lesser extent, yes demons. Some armies may be more forgiving when a player makes a mistake however, to the good general i think there is no army more rewarding then HE.