Observations on High Elven Wargaming

[Musashi]

Musashi's Law on Archmages

Any Asur force may have no more than three Archmages within its ranks; if three Archmages are present, one must be Teclis.


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[Spider_wells]

Wells' law of Blatant Superiority

Dragon Princes shall always be taken over Silver Helms.

[Divine Wind]

Musashi's Law on Archmages

Any Asur force may have no more than three Archmages within its ranks; if three Archmages are present, one must be Teclis.

What sized games are you playing?

[Musashi]

Minimum permitted on the table 3K. 2K tolerated under specific conditions (usually tournament builds testing and allied). 6-7K usual (2 vs 2), 9-10K occasionally. Maximum so far 12K (but we're getting ambitious).

This law stems from the fact that in large games, the chance of miscast increases, and it seems pointless to try to overpower the opposition in the magic phase, because those opposing High Elves will regret it, especially if you give a mage the Trickster's Pendant and successfully cast Drain Magic. If you succeed a second time in the same phase, your opponent is screwed. TK exempted, which is where the Vortex Shard makes itself useful.

[Raukov]

That's insane. How the hell did you build and paint 12k? What size board do you have?

[Lathaon]

Wells' law of Blatant Superiority

Dragon Princes shall always be taken over Silver Helms.

Breaking the law, breaking the law

[imrahil505]

12k aint nothing. I have that in HE alone....you need a biiig tabel. I uesed to display mine on a 8x12(feet) with a 24inch deep deployment

I don't even try to add my brets, dwarfs or goblins....goblin hoard looks so small

[Musashi]

That's insane. How the hell did you build and paint 12k? What size board do you have?

Just over 8x4. I cheated and bought most of mine prepainted, and can push my army to 5K. However, the O&G, Dwarves and VC are personally crafted and not bad. DE and TK spectacular (but anything over 3K needs to be proxied). Chaos, WE is functional. LM is probably 8K but almost all unpainted.

In the larger games, flanks don't exist, but I remember I once had Teclis castled in a corner and had 4000 points descend on him. I no longer make that mistake.

We're trying to arrange 20K over two tables, on one weekend, but player coordination is holding that up.

[Musashi]

Wells' law of Blatant Superiority

Dragon Princes shall always be taken over Silver Helms.

Breaking the law, breaking the law

It's foolish to break this one.

[Musashi]

Musashi's First Law on Alcohol

Inebriated players with low alcohol tolerance should be discouraged from moving their models unassisted, casting dice within the vicinity of models nor asked their opinion on any matter, regardless how innocuous it is.

[Ruerl Khan]

Ruerls rule on naming:

Models named Ziehkan shall always fail any roll they can until a re-roll is spendt on them after wich they shall make a mediocre success on each roll.

[Musashi]

Musashi's First Law on Allies

Unless they have Slann options, allies of High Elves are to be discouraged from recruiting Lord level wizards.

[Musashi]

Musashi's First Observation on Nerfing

If High Elves have long bows, a century of training and actual practice on living, moving targets - our archers should actually have a higher BS when firing directly and aiming carefully at a target and multi-shot otherwise by a factor of three; not taking into account shooting from two ranks. And at least at short range should have AP.

[Ruerl Khan]

Musashi's First Observation on Nerfing

If High Elves have long bows, a century of training and actual practice on living, moving targets - our archers should actually have a higher BS when firing directly and aiming carefully at a target and multi-shot otherwise by a factor of three; not taking into account shooting from two ranks. And at least at short range should have AP.

The generals point of pointing:
Armies who has spendt more than five thousand years focusing all their intent on retaking a specific land should not always strike last against that specific enemy, no matter how much that enemy whines about being useless.

[Musashi]

It's my thread and I'll whine if I want to, whine if ...


...and by whine, I mean make critical observations.

[Musashi]

Musashi's First Observation on High Elven Unit Sizes

High Elven unit sizes should be reduced to eight [8] models for Spear Elves and Archers, and four [4] models for Cavalry, Skirmishers and elite Infantry.

[Ruerl Khan]

It's my thread and I'll whine if I want to, whine if ...


...and by whine, I mean make critical observations.

Sure, and its our forum, so i'll pick apart those critical observations if I want to, if I want to

Seriously though, you may want to stick to the topic you created yourself, instead of making it into a tactical debate about changes -make those suggestions in a different thread, such as the one in the other forum?

[Musashi]

Seems to be a rather quiet day ...

Seriously, I have compartmentalized - lengthy treatises went to tactics, new unit types and revisions went under ideas, as have magic items, 8th Edition discussion got it's own thread, which contains minimal comments from me since I don't want to muddy the waters (I just keep an eye on it to prevent too much moaning). Occasionally I vent a few rants on other threads.

As far as I can tell, the above are just a few comments and observations I have, nothing that I plan to go on length about nor really plan to justify, unless asked to. They may be humourous, they may be critical, they may even sound whiny, but they are observations, when all is said and done.

[Silver]

But your observations aren't based on anything other than Fluff aren't they? Because for the game itself, it wouldn't work or the units would increase in price and would require a complete new test phase against all the different armies.

And that 8th edition discussion is useless, no one knows how the rules will change and how the game will evolve (or go backwards!).

[Musashi]

But your observations aren't based on anything other than Fluff aren't they?

No, some are based on tabletop experience, and the one on alcohol, admittingly, is a more a generalized one, not limited to High Elven wargaming. They are differentiated by titling them with the word Law.

Because for the game itself, it wouldn't work or the units would increase in price and would require a complete new test phase against all the different armies.

These specifically are just observations, and whether GW revises our Archers capabilities or not, and/or increases their point cost or not, in the end is entirely up to them. Whether they will take note of any discontent or suggestion by any faction on any army, is again entirely up to them. They may yet surprise us.

And that 8th edition discussion is useless, no one knows how the rules will change and how the game will evolve (or go backwards!).

No-one knows that, but that shouldn't stop anyone from trying to influence the process.

[Silver]

Maybe a 7th Edition Revision just like how Druchii pushed for a Revision of their 6th - though they had Gav which was present in forum communities.

[Musashi]

Maybe a 7th Edition Revision just like how Druchii pushed for a Revision of their 6th - though they had Gav which was present in forum communities.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind a revision in White Dwarf, but the current list can't be described as weak, so I don't see that happening until the next edition.

[Musashi]

Musashi's Law on Dragon Mages

Don't bring more than one to a party.

[Elrohir T?wele]

Musashi's First Observation on High Elven Unit Sizes

High Elven unit sizes should be reduced to eight [8] models for Spear Elves and Archers, and four [4] models for Cavalry, Skirmishers and elite Infantry.

rank bonus at 4 models wide, cause we're elite.

[Cenyu]

Yeah, lower unit sizes, earlier rank bonus and more elite and rare slots... just... because!

[Musashi]

Musashi's First Observation on High Elven Unit Sizes

High Elven unit sizes should be reduced to eight [8] models for Spear Elves and Archers, and four [4] models for Cavalry, Skirmishers and elite Infantry.

rank bonus at 4 models wide, cause we're elite.

No, BRB clearly states that rank bonus is a minimum of five models.

Yeah, lower unit sizes, earlier rank bonus and more elite and rare slots... just... because!

Right, yes, no, and yes, and yes ... how very true!

[Illustrious86]

James' Law:

One Great Eagle is never enough.

[Elrohir T?wele]

No, BRB clearly states that rank bonus is a minimum of five models.

So this would be some kind of special rule that only applies to the units with-in the army book. We'd have to come up with a name for the rule so it would be easily refeancable. A name that both implied its use while at the same time refeancing the storyline justification for the rule. Something like 'Citizens levy' or 'Mi'Naith' or 'Lance Formation' some such thing.
We should be careful though, genuine creative though like this may lead to lossing the Speed of Asurian in 8th edition. [IMO SoA should cause all combat to be fought by I value instead of ASF. For the most part elves would get to hit first, but there are some quick things out there that would strike before core units, like wardancers, druchii, some daemons, some skaven, vamps, ect. we could have more kool special rules like this one here if we fought in I value instead of ASF. give 2 c Ulthuan]

[tethlisslayer]

Tethlis's Law of Blatant Disregard to Rules

Any High Elf player may at any point in any game declare that a High Elf nuke just took out every single enemy model and that the owner of non-high elf models owes them a case of any liquid beverage of their choice. No arguing, and it must be carried through....

O wait this was serious.

Tethlis's Law of HIGH ELF Superiority

-High elf archers should be have armor piercing from longbows when target is within short range. Shoot in two ranks, option for multiple shots per round of shooting at lower BS.

-High Elf Spearmen should have heavy armor standard.

-High Elves should have more magical weapons like the Hydra Sword!!!!

EDIT: Just saw Musashi's post on AP HE archers. Damn I thought I was so original.

Regards
-tethlisslayer

[draxynnic]

Draxynnic's Observation of Balance Debates:

The armies you don't play are always overpowered, unless you can sweep them away with ease, in which case they are balanced to perfection. The armies you play are always underpowered, unless most opponents require very specific lists to even have a chance of countering them, in which case it's finely balanced and not a problem (there is a counter, after all).

-High elf archers should be have armor piercing from longbows when target is within short range. Shoot in two ranks, option for multiple shots per round of shooting at lower BS.

What, all of that?

I agree that HE archers are a little disappointing in the amount of pointy doom for your proverbial buck, but all of those seems excessive. Shooting in two ranks and armour piercing longbows would be enough to put them on par with DE repeater crossbowmen, adding mutiple shot on top of shooting in two ranks is just getting greedy.

There should also be something left for the Asrai, who are supposed to be the real experts.