Midwest Rampage (WPS comp) 2250 infantry

[Cythis]

OK, well this was the first major tourney I went too and looks like it will be the second, hopefully followed by a more diverse selection . The tourney follows WPS comp, but then modifies battle points based upon this score. In addition best general scoring is influenced by comp as such :
Best General Award is: Best General Points (55 Max Possible) + Comp Score (25 Max Possible) + Player Comp (5 Max Possible) (Max Possible Best General Score: 85 Points. Here are the WPS brackets, I have two infantry based lists to follow in a second post.

WPS 0 to 10
Win = 9 Battle Points
Draw = 5 Battle Points
Loss = 0 Battle Points


WPS 11 to 15
Win = 11 Battle Points
Draw = 7 Battle Points
Loss = 2 Battle Points


WPS 16 to 20

Win = 13 Battle Points
Draw = 9 Battle Points
Loss = 4 Battle Points


WPS 21 or More
Win = 15 Battle Points
Draw = 10 Battle Points
Loss = 5 Battle Points


Each scenario also has from 1-5 bonus Battle Points available. These points are the same for all 5 scenarios and are:

+1 - Enemy General dead or fleeing at end of game.
+1 - Capture at least one enemy standard.
+1 - Achieve the Minor Objective for the scenario.
+2 - Achieve the Major Objective for the scenario.

This makes the maximum possible Battle Score for each WPS bracket as follows:

WPS 10 or Less: 70
WPS 11 to 15: 80
WPS 16 to 20: 90
WPS 21 or More: 100

Also additional best general points are awarded based upon:

1. Terrain: score more pieces of scoring terrain than opponent, Scoring Terrain is controlled in the same manner as controlling a Special Feature (WFB Rules, Pg 100). (1 point)
2. Objective markers: Two objective markers one placed by each opponent, any unit may pick them up (2 points)
3. Battle objectives: A. Destroy more than 60% (1350) of your opponents army while losing less than 30% (625) or your own force
B. Hold at least two table quarters and contest or control the remaining two.
(2 points)
The total being: Best General Points (55 Max Possible) + Comp Score (25 Max Possible) + Player Comp (5 Max Possible) (Max Possible Best General Score: 85 Points

[Cythis]

My two ideas for lists are as follows. The theme would be warrior monks with the list centering around one unit of phoenix guard and one of swordmasters. I am just starting to learn blending and getting a good start on the army which will be purple cloth and mainly Gold NMM for the armour. The first list is probably much more efficient, but this is a rather friendly tournament as the comp system suggests, and the second list is probably nicer. The second list also has a combat lord which does fit better with the theme of the list.

A. Arch-mage inf with Chariot support

Heroes: 665
LvL 4, silver wand, 2 scrolls, sacred incense
Noble, BsB, Helm of Fortune, Sword of Might, Dragon Armour, Shield, Barded Elven Steed
Noble, Reaver Bow, Talisman of Loec, Dragon Armour, Great Weapon, Shield

Core: 415
20 Lothern Sea Guard with Shields, Full Command, Warbanner
10 Archers

Special: 870
18 Phoenix Guard, Full Command, Banner of Sorcery 350B
17 Swordmasters, Full Command, Standard of Balance, Amulet of Fire 350
Tiranoc Chariot
Tiranoc Chariot

Rare: 300
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers
2 Eagles

B. Prince inf with Chariot Support

Heroes: 791
Prince, Vambraces of Defense, Armour of Caledor, Amulet of Light, Great Weapon
Noble, Reaver bow, Talisman of Loec, Dragon Armour, Great Weapon
LvL 2 Silver Wand, Dispel Scroll
LvL 2 Seerstaff of Sorcery, Dispel Scroll

Core: 335
20 Spearmen, Banner, Musician, Warbanner
10 Archers

Special: 823
17 Phoenix Guard, Banner, Champion, Banner of Sorcery
17 Swordmasters, Banner, Champion, Standard of Balance, Amulet of Fire
TIranoc Chariot
TIranoc Chariot

Rare: 300
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers
2 Eagles

One thing I am considering for the second list is trying to get the Radient Gem on the BsB, and picking up a third bolter to compensate for the shooting loss. This would give the list more mobility with the bsb able to move more than 5 inches and remain at full effectiveness. I'm not sure where to get the points though.
Edit: I am shooting for the 16+ comp range and am just inside it for both lists. The aforementioned changes in the second list would just put me down to 15 which is another problem.

[Flame of the Asuryan]

Get White sword with loec on your lord? .

[yellowcommissar]

I like list 'A' better.

Archmage and Swordmasters just have that White Tower theme.

[Cythis]

yeah I tend to think list A is better too, Characters are cheaper and of similar efficacy.

I came up with an alternative list B though, which seems strikingly similar to the first list I posted on Ulthuan, but oh well . My main concerns with this one are that it looses 2 deployment drops over the other lists, and that It is a bit shooting and magic heavy.
On the issue of comp It is almost strictly a block army, so I am not sure if it would get judged poorly by the tourney review even though it makes 16 on WPS.
On the second issue, my plan would be to simply always deploy in a tight, inter-supported formation and use terrain or the table edge to cover one flank, forcing more mobile enemies to engage me on more straightforward terms. I am more confident in this army because I have good shooting and magic phases so that I can punish enemies at range if they do not engage and destroy support units that so easily prevent my blocks from doing anything.

Heroes:
Prince, Vambraces of Defense, Armour of Caledor, Amulet of Light, Great Weapon (generally goes in phoenix guard at line center)

Noble, Battle Standard Bearer, Radient Gem of Hoeth, Dragon Armour, Great Weapon (generally goes in Swordmasters on one flank, taking self or unit buff spell or fire/light)

LvL 2 Seerstaff of Sorcery (generally at least starts in swords, I plan to use death magic often with the 2d6 s4 and steal soul, can duck out in case of trouble, and may also bait characters into engaging and getting destroyed by loec champ)

LvL 2 Silver Wand, Dispel Scroll (generally goes in spears or a bolt thrower behind the lines, will take fire mostly or heavens if he needs to hide)

Core:
20 Spearmen, Banner, Musician, Lion Standard
10 Archers

Special:
17 Phoenix Guard, Banner, Champion, Banner of Sorcery, Gem of Courage
17 Swordmasters, Banner, Champion, Standard of Balance, Talisman of Loec
Lion Chariot of Thrace

Rare:
3 Repeater bolt throwers
1 Eagle

[yellowcommissar]

At first glance it looks like way to many points in characters. Max characters hasn't worked for me unless I'm playing 2999 points.

[Cythis]

Yeah, I would tend to agree, I can get the setup down to 710 approx if i drop amulet of light, but I've had more success with just 2-3 as well. I'd like to keep trying it as I feel it fits better with the fluff and is more sporting. though if I keep getting bad results I may change to an archmage list of the sort I listed earlier.

[Cythis]

okie, I reworked the lists a little bit. I have been getting ruined by my friend's dwarven rampage list which comps much higher than mine, so I am tooling the lists to be somewhat more like those I usually play with. I could take this a step further and loose the 3rd hero in the archmage list and pick up 2x tiranocs like I have in my list, but this would probably make it impossible to comp above 16.

Price list

Heroes: 616
Prince on foot, Ring of Fury Talisman of Loec, Armour of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix, Great Weapon
Noble, Radient Gem of Hoeth, Dragon Armour, Great Weapon
LvL 2, Seerstaff, Dispel Scroll

Core: 420
15 Lothern Sea Guard, Shields, Banner, Musician
15 Lothern Sea Guard, Shields, Banner, Musician

Special: 850
18 Phoenix Guard, Full Command, Warbanner, Gem of Courage
9 Swordmasters
9 Swordmasters
6 Dragon Princes, Banner, Banner of Sorcery

Rare: 350
Repeater Bolt Thrower x3
Eagle

Archmage

Heroes: 695
LvL 4, Either Book of Hoeth or seer, 2x scrls, dragonhorn, or Seer, ring, scroll (2nd and 3rd I cannot figure out how to comp, first is definitely nicer)
Noble, BsB, Helm of Fortune, Sword of Might, Talisman of Protection, Dragon Armour, Shield, Barded Elven Steed
Noble, Reaver Bow, Talisman of Loec, Dragon Armour, Great Weapon, Shield

Core: 420
15 Lothern Sea Guard, Shields, Banner Musician
15 Lothern Sea Guard, Shields, Banner Musician

Special: 835
19 Phoenix Guard, Full Command, Warbanner, Gem of Courage
9 Swordmasters
9 Swordmasters
5 Dragon Princes, Banner, Banner of Sorcery

Rare: 300
Repeater Bolt Thrower x2
Eagle x2


List deployment would be something like:


---------lsg-------- --PG-- -------Lsg-------
--sm-- ------ --sm--
eagle rbt --dp-- rbt eagle

with the Lsg using reform or add ranks when the enemy is in position blocking charges on the swords flanks and directing them away from the main line of battle. The swords would move up to support the PG front charging weaker enemies or flanking stronger ones that have been isolated by eagles, magic, and shooting. IF either side has taken serious casualties in the opening exchanges the DP can move up to replace them, and can also threaten counter charges on enemies forced to attack the LSG. The am would go in swords, PG, or RBT. The reaver bow would go into LSG or PG, and the BSB would go into PG or Dps. For the prince list deployment would be similar but the characters would probably stay in the PG with the exception of the mage when the PG are threatened by chargers.

oups the forum is not lining up my crappy diagram correctly, I will attempt to get a screenshot from lorenz up in a minute

[dabber]

okie, I reworked the lists a little bit. I have been getting ruined by my friend's dwarven rampage list which comps much higher than mine

I'm not sure that is a good comparison, unless there are several Dwarf armies entered. Hard or medium tough High Elf lists reliably crush Dwarfs that are not an anvil gunline. Soft High Elf lists have massive problems with soft Dwarfs, because we cannot get past their armour.

[Cythis]

Well i think that David Long (David L. on the web) is going and might be bringing the dawi which is my primary concern as he can probably outplay me with them. My friend Luke, and someone named David King, are the only ones signed up to bring dawi atm. There are 3 Warriors of chaos, 3 wood elves, 2 dark elves, 2 empire, and 2 vc lists going. Also a bret and ogre kingdoms player but the latter are those with the stronger lists. It is a little early to tell if there will be a lot of dwarves as only about half of the people that will come have signed up.

I could take the archmage list and tune up the magic to the point where 1 runesmith cannot resist it. I think David L mostly takes 1 runesmith only, That is only based on a few battle reports of his though. You are right that it is hard to get through armour/toughness of dwarves, and to compound the problem my friend always takes grungi (5+ war against magic missles and shooting) on either his bsb or one of his main blocks. This usually means the gyro-copter and main longbeard, hammerer blocks are very hard to break down. Conversely exposing my swords for a single turn has seen them utterly destroyed even at 17 models. The archmage would probably turn this ranged mismatch into a more even one, but I would suffer somewhat in CC, which I want to enter eventually otherwise I don't think my opponents will be very pleased.

Something like
lvl4 seer, ring, scroll
BsB, HoF, SoM, Talisman of Protection, Da, Sh, BES
Noble, Reaver Bow, Mask of the Merlord, Dragon Armour, Great Weapon, Shield

15 Lothern Sea Guard, shields, Banner, Musician
15 Lothern Sea Guard, Shields, Banner, Musician

20 Phoenix Guard, Full Command, Sorcery, Courage
15 Swordmasters, Full Command, Balance, Loec
Tiranoc Chariot
Tiranoc Chariot

RBT x 2
Eagle x 2

The mask on the reaver dude is so that he can more comfortably weather strength 3 counter attacks from dwarven war machine crew, if he gets steeded into them. Loec is almost as good on the sword champ. The deployment would be the same pretty much with the chariots defending back-lines against fliers and an eagle or two march interdicting the side of the line not occupied by swords.

[Baleanoon]

Seer is wasted on the lvl4 take the silver wand instead, its both cheaper and gives you a larger spell selection, and doesn't cost you 100 comp points. I'd try and give the BSB Guardian phoenix, and a halberd or something a long those lines.

Dropping the eagle combined with saved points elsewhere will get you a unit of Reavers and another 100 comp points. Maybe 3 ranks of 6 wide Phoenix guard + Archmage + Mounted Bsb (So 15 Phoenix Gaurd), and two units of 12 or 14 swordmasters might be in order here, just moving 15 point models around gets you 20 Swordmasters, and additional 45 points gets the units up to us12 with the other noble.