SpellArcher wrote: MasterOfNone wrote:complementing the Big Uns.
This is the crux of the matter, I believe.
Indeed. I agree with all the points you made. I think normal orcs is a waste of points.
I would like to like Black Orcs, but the reality is they are glass cannon.
Poor cousins of the White Lions, they cost nearly the same, are slow, not stubborn, and while they are T4, they can be easily killed having no defensive buff to speak of.
I have a nice unit of 25 and all the times I played them I was disappointed (granted, some of it could be my poor tactics). I feel they are overpriced for what they can do.
I still think night goblins are cheap enough that we can build a unit that is large enough to have steadfast for a little while, and bunker a shaman. I just swap shields for short bows. I know they are puny, but the shields are utterly useless anyway: they give only 6+ and no parrying (spears).
As you said trolls and artillery are the first obvious choices to have some punch. In my two army lists I have then explored two options, having artillery as a fixed element.
A perhaps less common approach is normal Savage orcs and big un boar boyz, with just a few trolls as support. The other is SO Big Uns and 8 trolls.
SpellArcher wrote: MasterOfNone wrote:Doom Divers
Basically, these just aren't my cup of tea, either conceptually or in terms of models. I know this weakens the list but I'm quite sure about it.
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Can't argue with taste. It's a game and if we don't like something we don't use it.
So here are my two lists, they could still have a little bit of points juggling.
#1 Trolls and SO Big Uns
29 SO Big Uns Spears, FC, BoDiscipline 369
36 Night Goblins, s.bows, NO shields, FC, netters 183
5 wolf riders, spears, s.bows, shields, musician 75
TOTAL CORE 627
8 Trolls 280
1 Troll 35
1 Goblin chariot 50
TOTAL SPECIAL 365
Doom Diver 80
Doom Diver 80
Rock Lobba 85
Rock Lobba 85
Arachnarok 290
TOTAL RARE 620
Savage Orc Lvl4 Shrunken Head, MR(2), Sword of Striking 300
Orc Warboss 4++ armour, shield, sword of antiheroes, PoFoolhardiness 203
TOTAL LORDS 503
Night Goblin Lvl2 Dispel scroll 110
Night Goblin Lvl2 Ring of Ruin 110
BO BSB Enchanted shield, talisman of preservation 165
TOTAL HEROES 385
GRAND TOTAL 2500
#2 Boar Minibus
30 SO, Spears, FC, 305
40 Night Goblins, s.bows, NO shields, FC, netters, 2 fanatics 245
5 wolf riders, spears, s.bows, shields, musician 75
TOTAL CORE 625
8 Boar Boyz Big Uns, shields, FC, BoDiscipline 228
4 Trolls 140
1 Goblin Chariot 50
TOTAL SPECIAL 418
Doom Diver 80
Doom Diver 80
Rock Lobba 85
Rock Lobba 85
Arachnarok 290
TOTAL RARE 620
Savage Orc Lvl4 Shrunken Head, MR(1), Fencer's blades 305
Orc Warboss 4++ armour, MR(3), boar, shield, great sword, PoFoolhardiness 245
TOTAL LORDS 550
Night Goblin Lvl2 Dispel scroll 110
BO BSB Boar, talisman of preservation 176
TOTAL HEROES 286
GRAND TOTAL 2499
Comments:
The seemingly useless chariot is to stay behind, covered by troops, to defend the artillery, placed in two blocks both at charge range.
There are no manglers because I don't have the models
There is the arachnarok because I have the model and am curious to see if it works. If not, there is plenty of points to boost the army in other ways
Trolls and Boars are meant to work together (also given that the general is on the boars)
I would not charge forward with the boars, it would be dangerous for them and the other units need the Ld bubble. Just use the additional movement to add charge range.
I am a bit worried about the presence of the BO in the boar big uns, failing animosity would be expensive point wise. On the other hand, not having the BO could be even worse if animosity is failed at the wrong time.
I am not sure about the utility of fanatics but I need them to make up the 625 points
The first army has all the eggs in one basket and that makes me nervous; the other no really strong unit. That makes me nervous too.