Ulthuan

Hey folks,

Quick build question. I've got 56 spearmen, 20 of which I'm currently building. In my head, I'm thinking of having two blocks of 20 and perhaps the remaining 16 as seaguard. Is that small block worth it or is it better to just have two larger blocks of spearmen?

I realise this depends on what edition but let's say between 6-8th editions.

I've got some leftovers from the lion chariot sprues so I'll be able to add some nice Chracian theme to my command of the new block.

Thanks for the help.

_________________
One foot in the hobby

It's been a LONG time since I played 8th. But from what I remember 16 seaguard would be a total waste. Archers are cheaper, and get longbows instead of just bows. And with all the supporting attacks that HE get nearly all (15/16 I think?) of them will be able to fight anyway.

In general I think LSG are considered as a worse option then either archers or spearmen. They shoot worse then archers and while they have the same attack as spearmen they are more expensive. The reason is that they have contradictory abilities. To use the bows you want to stay back and out of combat as much as possible. But then having the spear and extra armour is wasted. So often you find you're only using one or the other.

Having said that, in 7th edition there were a couple of lists that used LSG to great effect. The main one I remember was one by a guy named Ant Spiers who won a grand tournament with the list. It was unconventional and people didn't believe he could do as well as he did. So they can work. It also depends on the environment you play in. If you play against the most optimized lists and tough opponents then LSG are maybe not the best choice. However, they perform fine in a more friendly environment.

A few thoughts form my experience:
- In most lists 40 spearmen is enough
- The main reason I would consider building 50 spearmen is to try them out as a single block, 10 wide, 5 deep. It gets 50 attacks with ASF. They are only s3, but it still should give most units some second thoughts before charging into that block. Also, with any kind of buff it becomes a scary combat unit.
- You could make the 16 as seaguard. And then just use them either in the back ranks of a spearmen unit to fill out the bodies or do the reverse and add the spearmen to the back of the LSG unit to create a bigger unit. Most people will have no issue with this, and that is assuming they even notice (which I doubt unless you tell them).
- A unit of 16 spearmen itself doesn't do all that much. As Shannar mentions, all HE fight in 3 ranks standard. So 16 LSG almost have the same number of attacks as 16 archers. Of course, if you feel that light armour + shield is something you need then you could still go for them.

Rod

_________________
For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91

Check my writing blog for stories on the Prince of Spires and other pieces of fiction.

Mindrazor!!!

I think the partition of 20 + 20 spears and 16 LSG makes a lot of sense. In 8th you can do as Prince of Spires says, and in 6th/7th units of elven infantry rarely have a reason to go beyond 20.

_________________
"The general has this to say about ensuring against defeat when outnumbered, out–weaponed and outpositioned. It is... Don't Have a Battle."
"Sounds like a clever man," said Jenkins.
Terry Pratchett, Jingo!

Avatar: https://silmarillionproject.tumblr.com/

Okay thanks all for the input, yeah I was thinking if I wanted to I can just bulk up the numbers to one big boy regiment. The only reason I wanted to put the 16 in there as seaguard anyway is for aesthetics haha.

I think in my mind, I've never really used seaguard as I didn't see the point but just wanted to ask in case people here thought they were of use!

_________________
One foot in the hobby

In 6th, you want smaller ranked units because Static Res matters more than killing power. In 8th the reverse is true. 7th is somewhere in between. I feel 20 Spears is good for 6th, 16 possible but tight. 7th 20 or 25. 8th at least 30 to absorb losses when 5-wide and I’d go no bigger than 40. Horde is playable but a bit rigid. In 7th, 10’s of LSG can be good instead of Archers.

_________________
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001