The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

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Keith
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1741 Post by Keith »

The US has property taxes that range from .2% to 4% of the value, depending on where you are. 1% seems on the low end of things.

In the USA this money it typically collected on a local level and is where the funds for Police, school, etc.. come from.

Assuming that Croatia is going through hard times like much of the rest of the world, adding a property tax does not seem like a terrible way to raise revenue, so long as it goes towards productive ends.

Do you already pay property tax at a local level and this a new national tax?
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Giladis
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1742 Post by Giladis »

There is one already on the local level that is between 0.05$ and 2.3$ per m2 depending on the type of property.

The problem is 1% is to much for an average Croatia income. A 50 m2 flat is on average worth 100 000 € so that would translate to 1 000 € per year while at the same time average Croatian vage is 8700 € per year. So a family of 4 with both parents working will be losing 1/16 of their yearly income to the new tax.

When you add to that the fact most people in Croatia in adition to their current living space have some property in the country side like their parents or grandparends house that is not used and a field that goes along with it the new tax is akin to skining an average person alive.

After some thinking I can count my family lucky since a lot of what we own is in BiH and Montenegro so we will not be paying as much as we could. If all that we own was in Croatia we would end with probbably more than 15 000 € of tax.


2-4% is quite a lot, the only thing I can think of is that property in USA must be low value for such a percentage to be acceptable to the people paying it or it has a level under which property isn't taxed so the goverment doesn't bleed the poor.
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1743 Post by Bob of Beleriand »

Or median income is higher.
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1744 Post by Keith »

It is taxed only at the local level. Not sure why the Federal level needs a property tax. But in the US, most/all states have exceptions for farms.

I think the issue where you are is that the wages/property value ratio is way off. Your family owns what, 600000euro to 1500000euro worth of property? Sorry man, that makes you not poor, even if you can't afford to keep all of it.

Property values in the USA vary greatly, depending on where you live. Wages are typically higher here than other countries as well.

For example, the median household value in Massachussetts is 338,500$, Median household income is 64,000$
the median household value in Alabama is 119,600$, Median household income is 40,500$

That means, for the average household in MA to buy their home outright they would have to work for 5.28 years, and not spend a dime on anything, or pay taxes for that matter. In Alabama, it is 2.95 years.

Croatia has the average(don't know if it is median or mean) household income at 16740$(yearly, as all my numbers have been).
Croatia, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Slovakia and Slovenia(couldn't find Croatia individually so this could be way off), have and average household value(together) of 179,522$
This means the average Croatian household has to work for 10.72 years not spending anything.

Considering that the basic costs for survival and taxes take a much larger percentage from lower wage earners, it can be extremely difficult to every outright own a home.

By comparison, it would take your household (42000$ annually) where you make 2.5 times as much as the average, 18 years to buy your properties outright (754920$ for the ones Croatia has taxed you on, or if it were on the properties in BiH and Montenegro as well, it would take you a projected 45 years of never spending anything to be able to afford all of your properties).
So on average, it is twice as hard at least for Croatians to become homeowners than Americans. Your situation implies old ownership as your family now could never afford it, that probably makes you "rich" in comparison to the average.

Looking at these numbers, real-estate seems to be one of Croatia's best assets, so it makes sense from an economic standpoint to try to develop it. Unfortunately, most Croatians, clearly are not in a position to do this themselves. It is rather underhanded to make it more expensive to keep property in hopes to force people to sell. However, should this unfold as you think where many unused properties are sold and developed, then it should result in an influx of money into the economy as a whole and greatly help things. Unfortunately you are likely correct that in some cases, properties will be bought and then rented back to the seller.

By comparison, it looks like the University of Zagreb costs 8800$ per year to attend. My university costs now 56,000$ per year with room and board, =[.

Just some interesting numbers.
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1745 Post by Teledor »

Also, the states with higher property tax rates tend to have low or no state income tax. Number #2 and #3 property tax rates, Texas and New Hampshire, don't collect an income tax. Other states with high property taxes have low flat rates on income taxes, like Illinois and Michigan. Conversely, some states with low income taxes or property taxes have high sales taxes, a scheme similar to a VAT but not quite the same.

More importantly though, as Keith pointed out, it really depends on the median income of the residents in the state and the median property value.
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1746 Post by Giladis »

Actually it is free for roughly 45% of students while the rest pay between 815$ and 3900$(this in a private university) per year. But 1 000$ is an average per year. I should also mention that 815$ is considered to much by many students and there is a whidespread campaign to make all state owned universities free as they were for our parents. As it stands they are wining and we could expect that by 2014 at the latest.


You misunderstood me, I would never consider ourselves poor, since my parents are a judge and a doctor we are solid middle class based on our income and based on property we are also roughly in the upper middle. Through inheritance we hold 3 flats and part of a house in the capital. We live in one flat, grandmother in the other and we rent the third to help grandma survive on her low pension. We also have 1 flat and 1 house at coast (at different places), a rundown house/barn with an orchard also at the coast, a part of a house in the continent along with a several hectares of arrable land next to a few hectares of wood. In Montenegro we have another house (haven't been there since the war began), two orchards and a vineyard, while in BiH we have two houses, a forest and three fields. In addition we have 6 graves and 3 tombs. So yes I would say that we own probably more than 1.5 million € and that is pretty normal in Croatia. We are a rich poor people.


As far as I see the situation it will backfire. Most of the property owned by people in Croatia is in economically and demographicaly dead areas where now very few people live (mostly old) and is of much greater sentimental value than usable though it still has considerable monetary value. The only people I see buying that property are various banks looking for a cheap way (as property prices will certainly plumet once the forced selling begins) to acquier further wealth from money stricken citizens. In the towns and cities many people due to their low income will be unable to live in their inherited flats/houses and seek cheaper places to live but they do not exists since our housing market colapsed in 2008. So they will either be forced to go back to the countryside (unless they already sold that to pay for the property in towns and cities) that holds little prospect of future or emigrate in search of a better life (Croatia is allready loosing 30k people a year due to emigration).


As it stands Croatia is at the verge of entering the EU and at the same time very close to becoming a third world country where nearly 1/6 of the populations is bellow poverty line. We are in a gutter with lead weights around our legs and hands cuffed behind the back trying not to drown.
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1747 Post by Meif »

Finnish awareness videos are creepy but make you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwdUXS94yNk
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1748 Post by Talifan »

Thank God I am back!!! Had to take some time off for my sanity! Playing to many games and working left no time for other things!
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1749 Post by Jimmy »

Damn it seems the forums are a little quiet these days. I'm running out of things to do at work! :wink:
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1750 Post by Talifan »

I cant go on at work anymore...no computer...work in a lumber mill now! getting paid 75% more than I got as a Security Specialist!!
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1751 Post by The Silly Dragon »

Talifan wrote:I cant go on at work anymore...no computer...work in a lumber mill now! getting paid 75% more than I got as a Security Specialist!!
Wow i guess cutting the worlds lungs apart is higher up humans priorities then keeping people safe! :lol:

No joking tho, congrats!

I recently split up from my girlfriend, well she left me. So its time to hit the ice cream i think and watch awful movies until i pluck up the courage to go looking for love again (took so damn long last time damn it! :( ). Apart from that its business as usual as i try to look for a better job. Oh well SSDD.
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1752 Post by Jimmy »

That's no good SD but don't be in a hurry to get into another relationship. But ice cream is good. =P~
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1753 Post by Talifan »

Want a hug SD? I know they make me feel better...and dont rush things. The right person usually shows up when you are not looking and least expecting to find them. I know this.
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1754 Post by The Silly Dragon »

Not sure how a hug works on the internet but yes i would like one! :P

Thing is she did just come along out of nowhere before and i couldn't believe my luck when she did! I'm no good at flirting or anything so will probably be awhile before the next serious relationship again. I'm in no hurry don't worry about that! As i now have more free time for myself and more freedom too (i don't have to sit watching any chick flicks! yay! pure unadulterated horror and action...mmm may go see Dredd!).

Just wish i knew why is the only thing now.
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1755 Post by Talifan »

Here is your hug SD! *hugs SD in manly fashion* :D
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1756 Post by The Silly Dragon »

Well a friend thinks he saw her with another man the other day but he stresses that he isn't sure it was her. Hopefully not as that would suck if she left just to be someone else but hey like i care any more! (b***h :P ).

Thanks for the hug! *looks at Talifan and nods while talking about football and orders a beer*
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1757 Post by Paraicj »

Hmmm, is it really worse to be dumped for somebody else?

I mean, at least that's an actual reason. To me, a less painful one than her just getting bored of you, generally thinking she's too good for you or figuring out you guys have no future together without another reason. At least another guy makes sense, she just thinks they're a better match.

These things happen, sorry dude.
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1758 Post by The Silly Dragon »

Well i don't see it as her leaving for a better match but more to the point is how did she find him to be a better match? Did she cheat on me to find out? Also apparantly when my friend spotted her (or not) it wasn't long since we broke up so it obviously didn't mean much to her if she is jumping into another man's arms so quickly. Thats what hurts the most is the speed of it all.

Anyways its not confirmed and i we haven't spoken since the break up (Edit: actually not true that we have texted several times).
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1759 Post by Allerion »

Imo, the sooner you put it behind you, the better. I was hung up on a girl for a really long time. I didn't still want to be with her, I was just very, very mad. Frankly, that sucks. It starts to take away from other things and is a nagging thing in the back of your head. You miss things like the awesomest girl ever was in one of the bands you play in, and all you had to do was go talk to her.

99% sure said girl likes me, hopefully we will meet for lunch this weekend. If we wind up dating Id probably buy everyone here a pizza or something.
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1760 Post by Meif »

When sending the pizza to Finland, make sure it stays fresh and is delivered steaming hot (but not dry as sand) to me.
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1761 Post by Prince of Spires »

http://www.just-eat.com/

I normally have diner 7.30 / 8 ish at night.

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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1762 Post by Giladis »

I am not sure what to think right now. I am instaling Skype and the name Giladis is taken. Should I be annoyed or flattered :lol:
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1763 Post by Prince of Spires »

At least you know how to reach him. Give him a call and claim your name back ;)

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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1764 Post by The Silly Dragon »

I signed up for skype some weeks ago and forgot my username and password moments later :?

Ex-Girlfriends suck is all i can update on... :evil: Think i'll be single for quite some time before trusting again. But hey thats fine with me! :P
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1765 Post by Allerion »

Ex's are wonderful when you realize that they are actually a terrible person and you're way too good for them.

Theyre 100 times better when they come to you after they break up with someone else and are super easy to take advantage of.

Not that I would do that or anything.... :wink:
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1766 Post by Loki17 »

Allerion wrote:Ex's are wonderful when you realize that they are actually a terrible person and you're way too good for them.

Theyre 100 times better when they come to you after they break up with someone else and are super easy to take advantage of.

Not that I would do that or anything.... :wink:

Hey this is what I'm doing these days!
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1767 Post by Allerion »

Well shit it looks like I owe some of you pizza....

if you send me your address I will legitimately send you a pizza
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1768 Post by Suilliurdna »

Now this looks like a job for me
So everybody, just follow me
Cause we need a little, controversy
Cause it feels so empty, without me
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1769 Post by Ghost »

I'm more of a Pizza Hut fan, could we work it out? :P
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Re: The Ulthuan Jacuzzi - Come Relax!

#1770 Post by Allerion »

Yeah I bet we could
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