Phoenix Guard going bonkers

[Drainial Shadowheart]

I had a random thought that made be curious and this seemed like the best place to ask. Now as I understand it (I am a Dark Elf player though I have the high elf book so bare with me if my fluff knowledge of High elves post sundering is a bit shaky) Phoenix Guard go into some room and come out knowing certain elements of the future, including the time and manner of their own death and for that reason they are unable to/ forbidden from talking (or presumably writing or any other kind of communication).

So my question is this, is it possible or are there any recorded incidents of prospective Phoenix Guardsmen passing whatever tests they have to, getting shown their own death and then losing their minds? And if so what was/ would be done about them.

It strikes me that an army of lunatics trying desperately to avoid anywhere any of them are supposed to die might be quite fun (I am considering starting a small HE force, but only if I can come up with a decent back story)
So there it is; I hope someone can help.

[Baalan]

becoming a Phoenix Guard is a 'calling'.
if you read Caradryel's fluff in the current AB you'll see what i mean.

so they are chosen by Asuryan and then go through the ritual. in other words they are expected to be successful at that.
of course, some might not make it, but as you said, they would most likely end up with their brains fried up with all they have witnessed by Asuryan... in other words, they would be something entirely different from berserkers/flagellants.

those that fail perhaps fall into a trance and never wake up and laid to rest in the main hall of the temple or something like that with priests keeping them alive - they are absorbed by the god or something?

like the idea of some elves going nuts - well, totally love it actually, given my fondness of the glamredhel - just dont see it based on the Phoenix Guard, but then i will be happy to help you out trying to make it plaussible

cheers

[Lionofchrace99]

I would imagine that the most practical solution if a Phoenix guard went insane would be to simply execute him. He now knows forbidden truths and various secrets involving the future, I would imagine the Phoenix guard would not want a madman running around screaming about what is to come.

[Baalan]

this is the Asur mate...more likely to keep them in a sanctuary and guarded rather than execution.

cheers

[krysith]

I would think it would go more like this:

(Vision begins)

In the future, you will die.

Where will you die? Right here, in the shrine of Asuryan, amongst your Phoenix Guard brethren.

How will you die? Holding your chest, crying silent tears of pain.

When will you die? Right about... now

(End vision, begin heart attack)

[Thrilmamir]

That sounds about right to me. Becoming a Phoenix guard has no mandatory service time.

[Drainial Shadowheart]

Right, in an attempt to save my idea I am making another stab with a hypothetical situation so please hear me out and tell me if it is half way plausible or not.

During the storm of chaos (largely because it is the only 'recent' time I can think of when a high elven army would have come into contact with Chaos) a detachment (I am thinking about fifty) of phoenix guard was taking part in the war effort, pushing back the forces of Chaos after the implausible final battle (you know the one I mean, where Teclis banishes a whole deamonic legion and Grimgor shows his softer side ect). But although the forces of chaos were once again on the wane one should never underestimate just how trixy daemons can be. After wiping out a chaos war band the mage who was accompanying them (can you get Phoenix guard mages? I am guessing not) attempted to destroy an artefact captured from the champion, a crown with a daemon inside.

As the crown split apart the daemon was banished, but not instantly and in the split second between its corporeal prison splitting apart and it being thrown back into the warp the daemon sliced into the minds of the guardsmen around it and triggered something buried deep inside them. It drove their sense of self preservation into overdrive. Whilst this would be bad at the best of times when you already know where and how you are going to die it drove them mad.

Instead of returning to the army they ran, journeying into the old world and trying desperately to avoid anywhere they were to die. Thoughts?

[Cyrannoc]

interesting idea, but how about this:

During the final battle an entire cohort of phonix guard were locked in combat defending thier lord from a greater demon of Tzeentch, they knew that thier future was sealed, but, they knew that thier lord-commander's was not. He/she was able to defeat the demon, but not without sacrificing his/her own life. and so, upon thier lords brutal and horrific death they were subject to a wave of pure chaos energy erupting from the greater demons corpse and thier memories were wiped clean of all knowledge of thier mortal fate - all that remains are vague images and fleeting sensations, . . . clues and phantoms.

They now know niether the time, manner nor place that they are destined to meet thier doom, and must thus wander the earth seeking it out, or seeking some way of learning it anew. To pass through the flames of Asuryan a second time would not be permitted, so rather than this, they choose to doggedly seek thier collective doom throughout the known and unknown world, only when they face it will they know it to be thier destined fate.

so this might suggest rather than a group of PG avoiding death (kinda cowardly) instead a group of dour and baleful PG wandering the world seeking death instead!! (a bit like the good ol dwarf slayers death-wish).

lemm know what you think, thought you might appreciate an alternative take on it.

[Baalan]

...does this mean they will be able to ...talk?! *gasp!*


however, that is an interesting background to work with.

cheers

[Drainial Shadowheart]

@Cyrannoc: That is going back to the usual tradition of duty and honour bond sacrifice and the holier than thou attitude that always put me off traditional Asur background. While it is a good idea for the list I wanted to do something different by putting the Asur in a situation outside of the usual code of duty and morality. Not that the phoenix guards are cowards, but that they just don't want to die. It is also something slightly tragic as they know better than most that you cannot cheat fate and that in all probability it will be the decision to move into (for example) the border princes in order to stay away from an impending ork waagghh that will lead to some of them dying to a scaven attack.

@Ballan: I don't think so, the magic vows taken in the chamber of days would still be binding after all (I re-read some fluff, no longer referring to it as 'some room'). Besides, deciding where to go and what to do gets a whole lot trickier if you can't talk to one another. Though I suppose they must have some means of communication, telepathy maybe, or sign language.

[Baalan]

how about implementing some sort of dodgy wizard that rescues them or something from a dire situation (the one that resulted in them becoming a bit more 'mortal') and he is the one that leads them?
doing that will allow for some battles that might have some underlying reasons that are not so 'vanilla'?

cheers

[Prince of Spires]

You could also go to the other extreme. Instead of not wanting to die they realy want to die, but they are not sure about the when or where.

There was some 'static' on the line when they got their view of their dead and thus they only know that they will die, but they are unsure about the location. Thus they travel all over, looking for the place they saw in their vision, but never find it. They keep starting battles for no apparent reason (to the outside world) because the believe they've found the place.

Rod

[Drainial Shadowheart]

Now that idea I do like, it gets around the problem of having an army of cowards and still retains the essence of the idea (that they shouldn't be defending Ulthuan and being nobler than the noblest noble from any other culture). I may well have to steal it. The only problem now is coming up with a reason for the rest of the army to be there (obviously a large block of Phoenix guard needs to be the centre piece and core of the army but I will need other troops as well).

I suppose I could have it that they attach themselves to any force of elves leaving Ulthuan to go anywhere dangerous, because they cannot bring themselves/ aren’t allowed to completely abandon the island. That would give me plenty of flexibility in the rest of the force. Any thoughts?

[Prince of Spires]

You're welcome to borrow it Glad to be able to help. As for why the rest of the army is there, good question. Keeping with the 'lunacy' theme, perhaps you could make the rest of your force a bunch of religious fanatics: Phoenix Guard are, more or less, representatives of the main High Elf god, Asuryan. What if your PG managed to convince the rest of your force that they are acting out the will of Asuryan. The rest of your army folows them on their death crusade acros the world believing they are aiding in the plans of their god. Lots of potential for drama there I would say. And it makes a more coherent force than if they just tag along for the ride...

Rod

[Tahl]

One would assume that the God who made the room figured out a way not to pan fry even a small minority of those who go into it.

I always thought of it more like a L337 brainwashing machine.

[Luna Guardian]

That's the general consensus, however the truth is much darker. Asuryan is in fact a nazi who uses the Flames of Asuryan to burn those he deems "unfit" to walk HIS Warhammer World.

It all makes sense.