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 Post subject: Lothern Sea Guard 8th Ed
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:47 pm 
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I'm thinking theese guys could be a winner. Being able to shoot in 2 ranks + half your 3rd rank each turn, with the addition of a free reform after movement with a command group, makes them a great multi task unit. Thinking of taking 2 units of 30 to support my swordmasters with Normal archers/bolt throwers in support.

Just move forwards 5 inches a turn and shoot 25 shots each unit and when the enemy is near charge range reform into multi ranks.

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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 9:29 pm 
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I imagine most HE players will be fielding them en masse come 8th edition. I think I will still bring a block of spears to give me a few more bodies considering how combat will work.

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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 9:36 pm 
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Yes. The free reform is the icing on the cake.

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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:34 am 
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New Models
Fights in many ranks
Shoots in many ranks
Fills up core % easily
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New Models

Hello Lothern! ;)

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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:59 pm 
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yes, supported by cheap nobles w/ great weapons.

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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 11:04 am 
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I'm really interested to see the new miniatures for them, it will help me finish my last batch of clanrats so i can start the shiny new HE miniatures!

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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 11:34 am 
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Considering how cheaply you can get units from skull pass/black reach on ebay, buying lots of LSG will also be one of the most inexpensive ways of fielding a HE army.

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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 11:48 am 
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Not to mention the rest of our goodies. I can see many a trade being done in the first few weeks of release. "You can have my skaven if i can have your elves".

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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 12:42 pm 
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already going to be doing a swap when the box set comes out! Then again it means more painting :(

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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Yeah im also gonig to be doing a deal with a friend who is starting skaven when the box comes out. Apparently the box set is set to come out about a month later than the actual book, what a way to sell the big version of the book ;p

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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 8:04 am 
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depends if they do a "battle for skull pass" version of the book

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 6:02 am 
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If the rumored rules are true, Lothern Seaguard can fight frontally with at least 4 ranks (2 base, 1 spear, 1 High Elf citizen levy)

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:28 am 
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Lord Anathir wrote:
yes, supported by cheap nobles w/ great weapons.



There's nothing really cheap in our list, though if you really do 25% purely spent on heroes and no slots, I'll see as to how many I can squeeze in.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 11:07 am 
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Its still just S3 attacks... and WS4. Of course better than other cores but i tend to compare everything to darkelves.
With them as opponents for example corsairs would win every matchup with 8th edition seaguard and their spearmen will most likely win too with hatred.

The S3 is also the negative point against W4 core units whether u land many hits through asf reroll or not. You just dont get enough wounds and there is still enemy armor saves.

Ok you can shoot and fight.. but its a short shooting 24" and fightning with S3 as mentioned above.. i doubt ill use em with much success. Still seaguard is at least playable now.. but dont expect to see seaguard that often. (not on tourneys at least, for fluffgaming its cool)

ps: to field them in units like 50.. they are way to expensive.. so 20-30 will be their numbers. everything else is lost points in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:06 pm 
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It would be really nice to see the Lotherners buffed a bit. All my spearelves have been modelled with a bow at hand as a Sea Guard army always has spoken to me.

Just can't wait 'til the starter set comes, if it truly is crammed with both pointy ears and long tails I'll be buying quite a few and ascend to the heavens of geeker joy!

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:31 pm 
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I dont see how you think Corsairs will beat Seaguard in any kind of way. I would say that a unit of 28 would be the perfect size for seaguard. 7 wide and 4 deep giving the best frontage. This would give 14 shots (17-18 is salvo fire is right) which would pepper the crap out of corsairs and you wouldnt even need to engage them, they would have to come to you. And in combat? 28 attacks, 4s then 4s then a 5+ save, what about that isnt impressive? Should get about 6 wounds I believe. And the rumor for the next rank attacking is only having one attack so if thats true then the corsairs fail a little bit more thanks to having a forth less attacks!

All in all im looking foward to them being useful, and spears being their cheaper alternative. I mean the 28 units of seaguard isnt a cheap option, heading out at about 400 points though it will pad out the core requirement and be an amazing addition to a fighting army. A simple unit of archers will then bump you up to the 25% mark for 2k points.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 5:46 pm 
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28 Seaguard, taking into account a round or two of shooting and stand-and-shoot, beat 28 Frenzied Corsairs in the first round of combat. With Frenzy gone, it's all downhill for the Corsairs from there. If the Corsairs don't break first round, they likely break second round. In that scenario, it's a turn or two of shooting + Stand and Shoot that makes the key difference, dropping the Corsair rank bonus and letting the Seaguard not only survive but win that first key round where the Corsairs are attacking with full bonuses.

+++Edit: Said Hatred, meant Frenzy. Clarified after geoguswrek's post.+++


Last edited by Tethlis on Fri May 28, 2010 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:38 pm 
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some mathematical support on the whole corsair front.

28 guard with warbanner vs 24 ish corsairs with frenzy banner (24 ish to take into account the losses to shooting), assuming the corsairs go 9 wide (why wouldn't you?)

the guard hit first with 21 attacks (no champion) doing about 3.5 wounds , the corsairs return the strike with a whopping 4.375 wounds (5.5 striking + 1 for champion), now the guard have an additional warbanner, rank (regardless of width of corsairs) and outnumber, making the corsairs down by 2 and a bit.

now the corsairs do have hatred in the second round, but the seaguard are still throwing 21 attacks so the 'sairs are down for a few rounds.

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:12 pm 
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I'll be curious to see if capturing banners still yields Victory Points, and I haven't heard anything on that front. With more regiments, more banners, and banners potentially having bonuses besides +1 CR, being able to chew up enemy Core choices and grab standards will be excellent.


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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 9:49 am 
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geoguswrek wrote:
some mathematical support on the whole corsair front.

28 guard with warbanner vs 24 ish corsairs with frenzy banner (24 ish to take into account the losses to shooting), assuming the corsairs go 9 wide (why wouldn't you?)

the guard hit first with 21 attacks (no champion) doing about 3.5 wounds , the corsairs return the strike with a whopping 4.375 wounds (5.5 striking + 1 for champion), now the guard have an additional warbanner, rank (regardless of width of corsairs) and outnumber, making the corsairs down by 2 and a bit.

now the corsairs do have hatred in the second round, but the seaguard are still throwing 21 attacks so the 'sairs are down for a few rounds.



if seaguard is ranked as mentioned 4x7 they would have 28 attacks (1+2 rank+spearbonusrank+HEspecial rank, wihtout champ) (or am i wrong on this? ) means 14 hits and 7 wounds after corsairs armor save = 4,7 wounds

corsairs are ranked also 4x7 lets say, another handweapon (frenzy(banner) now being +1 attack all time, why not considering having max attack output) and frenzy, 1strank:21 attacks + 2ndrank:7 attacks = 21 hits with hatred = 10,5 wounds after guard armor saves = 5 wounds thats without cauldron of course, would be even more, we cant get more attacks on the guards except 10 wide or maybe new spell?

so corsairs and guards are even on wounds = same rank bonus, with the war banner we would win by 1 (2 if we had attacked) but next round they have more attacks than we have due to our last ranked being nerfed.. they still hit with 28 attacks..

if there is nothing wrong in this math corsairs are better.. they cost 2 points less, we have the bow ok.. thats good ability of course but why would i field a unit that can take down just DE spears. the guard unit would have to be really big to equal their S3, thats too expensive.

guard is a good overall unit now, but i rather field 2-3 unit of (long)bows and the rest is elite etc

EDIT: for fightning other T3 cores than elven ones, guards are a good unit and playable now.. i just compare to DE so much because i play them half my warhammer time.. the other half playing chaos, dwarfs and orks being T4.. its even worse i can think.


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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 1:47 pm 
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Ok well think of how easily you generally lose a unit of archers to say... a flying unit in the flank, or anything of that description. Who is honestly going to take down a 28 model units of seaguard with ease unless they cost way more points than them? Those seaguard with thier massed attacks can pretty much kill anything that isnt a chaos warrior or has a consistant 2+ save and T4. This on its own is quite good but the problem with them currently is that we only need 2 core. Thus 2 archers will suffice.

The other problem is that you cant shoot in two ranks at the moment with them and you havnt got all the fancy new reform rules. All this combined just makes a block of seaguard +a unit of archers or spears (depending on your playstyle) the staple of a good list. It can hold the front line OR it can just sit back 10 wide with 8 on the back rank firing 25 shots a turn, anything that comes to challenge it wont do too well.

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