2250 Out of Place Spears?

[Bolt Thrower]

Looking to minimize characters (536pts here) but found myself stuck on where to best put my AM. I don't typically like to stick him with archers and I focused my special slots on things I definitely wanted in combat. This left me to create a vehicle of spears to escort him around. This seems a bit counter-productive to me as it also takes away points that could be spent in the rare slots. So, what do you think? Should I drop the spears for another RBT and an Eagle? If I do that where should the AM live? Thoughts on slapping the AM on an eagle as well to provide the maneuverability to keep him out of trouble is another option, maybe--but risky? Or I could leave the spears and drop an archer unit for 2 eagles instead--but I do like the ranged attacks of the archers, especially on turn one. So many options!

Archmage - Lvl 4, Silver Wand, scroll x4 - 350
Noble - BSB, Lance, Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Ring of Fury - 186

10 Archers - 110
10 Archers - 110
20 Spearmen - Full Command, Lion Banner - 230

5 Dragon Princes - 150
5 Dragon Princes - 150
1 Lion Chariot - 140
1 Lion Chariot - 140
14 Sword Masters - 210
14 Sword Masters - Banner of Sorcery - 272

2 RBT - 200

TOTAL 2248

I know the AM looks like a super bad scroll caddy, but I think High Magic with the silver wand will give him the breadth of spells he needs to be mostly defensive/attrition magic with the potential of a bit of punch with high odds of getting Flames and/or Fury during selection. If I suspect my opponent isn't bringing much magic, then I can use a more offensive lore to maximize his usefulness. With four scrolls I'd be looking to use those in the first turns and try to get off larger spells. Should my scrolls get all drawn then I can switch to Drain Magic to aid defense.

Thanks for looking!

[mmirch54]

Actually, I really like the spears in this list, and I think that you can get creative to do a couple of things. One, I do believe that changing the BoS Swordmasters to 14 PG w/ BoS, and bunkering the mage in them would serve you better. Secondly, I think you can drop both units of archers for a unit of 10 spears, and grab an extra RBT. This should leave you with 32 points left, and you can turn that into an Eagle by droping a scroll, as 4 is too many anyways IMHO. My revision would look like:

Archmage - Lvl 4, Silver Wand, scroll x3 - 330
I still might drop 1 more scroll and the wand for the Seerstaff
Noble - BSB, Lance, Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Ring of Fury - 186
I think the Reaver Bow might be a better fit, as it cannot be dispelled, but to each his own

10 Spearmen - 90
20 Spearmen - Full Command, Lion Banner - 230

5 Dragon Princes - 150
5 Dragon Princes - 150
1 Lion Chariot - 140
1 Lion Chariot - 140
14 Sword Masters - 210
14 Phoenix Guard - Banner of Sorcery - 272

3 RBT - 200
1 Great Eagle - 50

TOTAL 2248

[dabber]

My immediate thought is to dump the second archer unit for a third RBT. RBT shoots better and costs less.

A spear bunker for the Archmage doesn't need to be size 20. Obviously it is nice to have it big, but 15 will beat off light attackers just as well and saves a few points.

I don't like the second unit of Swordmasters. If you are going that big, find the points to give them a champion with Talisman of Loec and the Standard of Balance.

I agree that giving Ring of Fury to a Noble is a mistake - Reaver Bow instead.

[Bolt Thrower]

Thanks for the feedback! So far it seems the consensus for the noble is Reaver Bow over Ring of Fury. I definitely see pros and cons to both as the Reaver cannot be dispelled and makes use of the excellent ballistic skill. The ring can aid in the magic phase by drawing out 2 dice allowing the archmage more effectiveness. It's a tough one. I think I'm going to stick with the ring since I was able to work out the 3rd RBT. Helping the AM earn his points (which I look at as his own points plus his escort's worth) is kind of a priority.

I've used PG as a bunker in the past, and while it is rock hard, it seems like an even more expensive use of points. Hence the second large SM unit. I think the threat of 2 strong SM units can put a lot of pressure on the battle lines. I did work out command, loec, and standard of balance though.

Looks a little bit leaner with one less drop but should still be able to be offensive in combat and defensive in magic. Here's the updated list:

Archmage - Lvl 4, Silver Wand, scroll x3 - 330
Noble - BSB, Lance, Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Ring of Fury - 186

10 Archers - 110
15 Spearmen - Full Command, Lion Banner - 185

5 Dragon Princes - 150
5 Dragon Princes - 150
1 Lion Chariot - 140
1 Lion Chariot - 140
13 Sword Masters - Full Command, Talisman of Loec, Standard of Balance - 280
13 Sword Masters - Full Command, Banner of Sorcery - 275

3 RBT - 300

TOTAL - 2246

[SpellArcher]

I think it's looking better.

Why no Ring of Fury on the Archmage though? Why no Eagles?

[Bolt Thrower]

I think it's looking better.

Why no Ring of Fury on the Archmage though? Why no Eagles?

I played the list above against my lizardmen opponent and overall I was pleased with the performance. I was able to keep it interesting despite losing the BSB Unit to bad leadership test vs. terror and failing to rally and then chased off the board. Essentially I was playing a unit short most of the game.

I had the ring of fury on the BSB and there was comments that it should be switched for the reaver bow. I personally think (in the 1 or 2 turns before he ran like a sissy) that no range should be on him when mounted with DP's. So, I've updated his build a bit. This allowed me to drop to two scrolls on the AM and take the ring there where it will be more effective.

Regarding the RBT's, I found that the 3rd one didn't really add the pop that I was hoping for. I think I may drop it for a couple eagles and see what that nets me next time. New list here:

Archmage - Lvl 4, Silver Wand, Ring of Fury, Scroll x2 - 350
Noble - BSB, Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Helm of Fortune, Sword of Might, Gem of Courage - 182

10 Archers - 110
15 Spearmen - Full Command, Lion Banner - 185

5 Dragon Princes - 150
5 Dragon Princes - 150
Lion Chariot - 140
Lion Chariot - 140
13 Sword Masters - Full Command, Standard of Balance, Talisman of Loec - 280
13 Sword Masters - Musician, Banner of Sorcery - 263

2 RBT - 200
2 Eagles - 100

TOTAL - 2250

[SpellArcher]

I like this list a lot.

Maybe the second Swordmaster unit could do with Gem of Courage or Dragonhorn.

[Foxbat]

With your current list I would likely swap the Spears for Archers (10 model unit) and use the freed up points to give one of the DP units a SB with the Banner of Ellyrion. I would also look at switching the SM with the BoS to White Lions and give that unit a champion with the Amulet of Light.

With these changes the Archmage would be in the unit of WL until late in the game.

[Bolt Thrower]

With your current list I would likely swap the Spears for Archers (10 model unit) and use the freed up points to give one of the DP units a SB with the Banner of Ellyrion. I would also look at switching the SM with the BoS to White Lions and give that unit a champion with the Amulet of Light.

With these changes the Archmage would be in the unit of WL until late in the game.

I've never actually run White Lions (sorry Luna!). What are the main advantages/tactics when using them as a bunker? Is the idea to take them into the woods and just keep them there, moving to the edge every once in a while for line of sight spells? Or is it just that they are more hitty and with stubborn stick around more? Or both?!

I've done the banner of Ellyrian before as well and it works as a nice surprise. Will definitely consider that change as well.

[SpellArcher]

White Lions' 3+ save vs shooting is a useful bunker feature. I'm not sure about fielding them without psychology protection, even if you keep them out of combat Panic or Terror could spoil your day.