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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:05 pm 
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When talking about the temple guard slann, I didn't mean that we couldn't win a combat, just that we won't break them, with their 3 dice stubborn leadership with re-rolls. And given the temple guard is most likely going to be bunkering at the back, do you really want to march a load of Pheonix Guard across the board to get to them?

I just ignore it and concentrate on what is easier to kill. It is a huge point sink (and point conservation) for the lizardman player that isn't going to be killing many of our points. That means in a 2250 point game the lizards will effectively be playing 1,500 versus our 2,250, albeit with the 1,500 having excellent magic support and defence.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:38 pm 
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Recently I saw a LM player interpret the EotG's Arcane Configuration effect in somewhat of an odd way.

On his magic phase he elected to use the AC effect on the Lore of Heavens (nothing strange here), but when his opponent started to cast with his Heavens mage, the LM player advised that the reduced casting effect applied to his opponent’s mage too! :shock:

Is this correct?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:47 am 
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It says choose 1 Lore from the rulebook and ALL casting values for that Lore are reduced by one. IMO that means the opponent gets the benefit aswell. But what opponents will have Heavens aswell??lol
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:13 pm 
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I believe it carries some condition that means it only applies for that turn or something, that means noly that Lizardmen player will benefit. But let's not let the thread get bogged down in teeny rules discussions :)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:55 pm 
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has anybody had experience against razordons and/or salamanders? are they units we should be scared of?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:20 pm 
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Salamander can be tricky - the fact that they move and fire allows them to shoot at optimal angles - I moved a unit of swordmasters (7 in the front rank 3 in the back I think) to intercept a scar vet when suddenly a salamander moves to the flank and incinerates the entire unit #-o Spearmen don't like them either.

Razardons hurt elites but not very much - its really nothing compared to the 6th edition salamanders.

Both can be pretty good as a support combat unit - SW, eagles and such should think twice before charging.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:48 pm 
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Stormie wrote:
I believe it carries some condition that means it only applies for that turn or something, that means noly that Lizardmen player will benefit.

The rule indicates that the effect lasts until the beginning of the player's next Magic phase.

Assuming that the LM player's approach is correct, it does make for an interesting tactical question, should you look to always align one of your mages to your opponent's Lore selection for his/her highest level caster? Doing so may reduce the chances that the EotG AC effect will be used.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:09 am 
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I think it's pretty much always in our best interest if the engine decides to use Arcane Configuration instead of the better choices. So I think if anything, we should try to encourage the lizardman player to go for it.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:31 am 
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I was wondering about how one would handle a situation when a Slann in a 10 model Temple Guard unit (assuming a TG unit with a 6 model front) is charged in the flank?

According to the Lm Army book, the unit would be set-up with 6 TG in the front rank, the Slaan in the second, with 2 TG on either side (similar to Fig. 1 on pg 41 Lm Army Book). By the Lm rules, the Slaan actually extends into the third rank and would represent the only models in the rear rank.

According to the “Close Combat & Incomplete Rank” rule (BRB pg 36), normally the rear rank, if incomplete, is required to be moved over to be in contact with the attacking unit (BRB, fig. 36.1, pg 36). So, does this mean that the Slaan is required to be moved such that it is in combat with the attacking unit as it is the only model in the third rank?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:49 pm 
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No comments on what to do with the Slaan?

I guess no one has had this come up.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:02 am 
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Since theres no example of this happening in the Lizard codex, IMO yes the slann would have to be in combat with the enemy in the flank because he's got no bodyguard there protecting him.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:29 am 
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per the BRB rules, he wouldn't move over any more than a horsemounted character would move through a unit of infantry in a similar situation.
Thats the only analogy i can come up with.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:42 am 
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geoguswrek wrote:
per the BRB rules, he wouldn't move over any more than a horsemounted character would move through a unit of infantry in a similar situation.
Thats the only analogy i can come up with.

For me, the question was more around do we handle the construction of a “fighting line”.

Should it be:
(1) Treated in the same manner as a frontal combat would be resolved as defined in the Lm army book (i.e. once there were insufficient Temple Guard to support the placement of the Slaan in the second rank, it is moved to the fighting line), which would result in the Slaan moving to the fighting line; or
(2) Is the Slaan totally ignored until it is the last model in the second/third rank?

As for the mounted Character question, the approach is as you have stated, the Character does not move. The problem with using the common BRB Character approach, is that the all the Character rules assume that the Character is in the front rank. Further for a Character to be in a non front rank position the model would have had to been retired from a challenge, can’t fight, can’t use magic, and could forced return to the front rank as the combat continues.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:53 am 
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yes i agree it is a bit legally iffy, but it does save bother :D

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:39 am 
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Assume an Lm player takes his three Ancient Steggies and has them join a unit of 18 Skinks such that the entire front rank is formed only by the 3 Steggies with the skinks arranged 6x3 behind.

Question: Does the unit get CR for ranks?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:28 am 
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probably. on the plus side it makes the stegs worse, since if you beat the unit, they will now not be stubborn.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:40 am 
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Actually I was referring to Ancient Steggies when taken as a mount. Steggies not taken as a mount can’t join other units.

However, for this case, I think the unit would become stubborn when the Skink Priest/Chief's Ld test would be the best in the unit of Skinks.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:06 am 
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Yes, they get ranks. Theyare also vulnerable to panicking now as well, if you can get lucky, it will be very funny.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:15 am 
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lol that would be quite funny indeed seeing a pack of skinks piss bolt away and the Stegs are like "Ah nuts, do we seriously have to follow them?"

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:35 am 
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How are people dealing with Slann w/TG block + EotG + Steg lists. Because i just feel helpless really when coming up against those lists because R.B.T's can only do so much and i feel HE players are just waiting for the inevitable to happen. So what do we do to combat these types of lists?
P.S, its funny how my other army is Lizardmen yet i dont no how to deal with them when i verse them.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:19 am 
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I know how you feel, SS. I've played my Archmage/ Dragon Mage list against two of theose types of armies (And had a few other games with different builds/ armies), and it aint fun. it's the kind of list that just makes me wanna take 4 RBT cos otherwise it's damn hard. I think in both games combined I scored about 500VPs. Though of course I was rather unlucky ;)


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:02 am 
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Yea thats what i was thinking as well. It's like if we even want a chance to win we have to bust out our 4 R.B.T's, Battle Banner, Star Dragon, but it aint leave much in the way of troops.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:54 am 
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If only I had read this thread before I went to battle against Lizard Men yesterday. I faced a Lizard Men army that has:

Slann (Know all spells, 4+ ward save, extra power dice per spell, Bane Head)
EoTG
Skink Priest
Saurus Veteran (Power level 5 Steed of Shadow bound spell. great weapon)
18 Saurus
10+ Skink Skirmishers (Skink Priest here)
10+ Skink with 1 Kroxigor

Stegadon
15 Temple Guard
5 Cold One Cavalry

Salamander Hunting Packs

11+ PD, 7 DD.

Some points that have been mentioned before that I'd like to highlight:

1. Magic defense is important, it should be 5 DD with 2 scrolls minimum and maybe with one Mage with Drain Magic. The Slann took Death Lore and Steal Soul with Bane Head is nasty. It caused 2 wounds instead of one!

2. Beware of the flying Saurus veteran that has Str 7 when charging, especially with the aid of Steed of Shadows.

3. Saurus spear block, Temple Guard and Saurus cavalry are tough for RBTs to handle especially with the protection of 5+ Ward Save against missile from the EoTG. Saurus spear block will likely beat Spear Elves, in 6x3 formation, they could dish out 24 Str 4 attacks when they were charged.

4. EoTG and Stegadon are tough to beat in CC, they should be shot or magicked instead. It took my White Lions about 3 rounds of combat to finish off one Stegadon (with 4 out of 12 White Lions remaining). Sword Masters champion with Talisman of Loec could kill a Skink Priest on Stegadon. Sword Masters and White Lions could defeat Stegadon if they charge it. Sword Masters should attack the crews first to gain CR while White Lions should attack the Stegadon because it will have no AS against Str 6 attack. White Lions should probably loose but they were Stubborn and they could continue chopping the Dino to pieces.

5. Related to no. 3 and 4, I agree that Spirit of The Forgr is the best way against Lizzie to kill the Stegadon, the Temple Guard and the Saurus cavalry. It bypasses the 5+ Ward Save protection from the EoTG because it's not missile.

6. Salamanders are annoying with their panic causing breath attack. They should be taken care of asap.

7. If possible, deploy farther from their infantry blocks. They need to be whittled down before CC. Only our Elite Infantries could handle them in CC toe to toe.

That's all that I could think of.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:45 pm 
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An intresting stragtegie I read about dealing with stegadons. It's not mine so I won't take the credit :P

The strategy requires 5 Reavers with champ though you'll probably want the musician aswell. The key is to get behind the stegadon and charge it in a 1x5 formation, frontage 1 not 5, with the champ at the front. If there is a Priest on the Steg you should challenge it cos if you win it would be awesome. Don't challenge a chief though as they have 3 attacks and the potential for overkill. Your combat res will be:

+2 rear attack
+1 if you cause a wound
=2-3

Steg gets:
+1 if it causes a wound

You win by 1 meaning the steg must take a leadership test. I know he's cold blooded and stubborn but you could still pull it off and the look on your opponents face as you ran it down would be priceless!

Chance of the steg running:

Versus leadership 6:
0.357412...
Versus leadership 7
0.25

However Ld 7 is not stubborn so would be reduced to 6 so maybe that number is redundant. Not a bad chance and if you get your charge turn 2 then on average you should have killed the stegadon by turn 5-6 assuming your pursuit works. One major problem is that after your champion has died if you fail to break the steg it outnumbers. You have a musician and should win a second time but after that you will get killed. For this reason 6 could be worthwhile, or a standard.
PS this was designed for a Hydra and would work versus any monster with any fast cavalry.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:50 pm 
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Then you probably have very nice spearmen!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:46 pm 
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lol, well the three I have so far are not bad, I use 4 stages of highlight on the blues :D but only 2 on white.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:43 pm 
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I have a friend that regularly brings a LM list with a slann in a death star block of Temple Guard. Two stegs (EoTG) and regular one, 4 units or so of skinkes to redirect, and 3 units of 3 terradons. I found the best way to deal with this is to march block his death star with eagles. Shot everything I have at the Terradons and use fast cav to MAKE SURE his stegs do not run together. Redirect with your fast cave and make sure you get the charge off with a unit of WLs or chariots. Or just lead them around the board and kill everything else in the process.

Bring some magic and use the lore of metal. Lvl 1 spell to snipe the priest on the EoTG steg. No more ward then open up on it with your bolts (if they are still alive). The key is to take out that priest before trying to fight the EoTG steg. Other than that hit it with a hard hitter and hope to kill the steg. It is suborn 8 but can still fail. Lore of metal is nice.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:56 am 
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Steg's are Stubborn 6, but yea that can fail aswell. that's why a BSB nearby is really handy.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:04 pm 
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Fought lizards for the first time last night and wow are they versatile. So many tough targets it was hard to choose which to go after.

Some thoughts:

1. Beast cowers on steggies was a must. I haven't mastered the art of march blocking yet so that can be an option, but cowering it really affected its usefulness. Once cowered, stay away from it because burning alignment SUCKS!

2. Terradons are annoying for bolt throwers. If you don't pay attention to them your RBT's will be out of the game too early.

3. Cold Ones didn't scare me too much. I charged with 5 DP's against 5 Cold Ones with a Scar Vet. My strategy was that in the magic phase I would hope to score some kills with Spirit of the Forge on that unit softening them up for the close combat. Didn't get the spell off but the DP's won the combat but of course didn't break them. The next round I was able to get SotF off and eliminated the unit.

4. Metal is by far the most effective lore in my opinion. Using a seerstaff with it may be best so you don't get a useless spell like Commandment of Brass.

5. Below 2000 the magic was very defensive with an item allowing power dice to be saved as dispel dice.

6. Beware the Jaguar bound item. 20" flight move every turn for the scar vet wielding it. Definitely can cause some havoc.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:48 pm 
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actually, a lot of LM players put "wardrums" on thier Eotg (Steggie with priest and Engine of the Gods), which means that it can't me march blocked! So better rely on cowering it, than marchblocking it.

Yeah, lizardmen are very versatile and have a lot of hard units. I really like to play them 8)


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