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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:03 pm 
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Hey there fellow Generals!

It has been a while since the last time I have played (like 4 years maybe), and now I'm going back to the battlefield.

I will be attending a tournament, and I need to prepare a 1099pts list worth of our beloved troops (standard rules, 25% lords, 25% heroes, at least 25% core).

This is my first draft:

+ Lords +
Archmage [240pts]: High Magic, Wizard Level 3
. Magic Items: AB - Book of Hoeth

+ Heroes +
Noble [155pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Dragon Armour
. Magic Items: AB - Khaine's Ring of Fury, BRB - Enchanted Shield, BRB - Sword of Might

+ Core +
Archers [100pts]: 10x Archer
Archers [100pts]: 10x Archer
Ellyrian Reavers [80pts]
. 5x Ellyrian Reaver: 5x Spear (Mounted)

+ Special +
Phoenix Guard [255pts]: Champion, Musician, 15x Phoenix Guard, Standard Bearer
Sword Masters of Hoeth [65pts]: 5x Sword Master

+ Rare +
Great Eagle [50pts]: Great Eagle
Great Eagle [50pts]: Great Eagle

++ Total: [1,095pts] ++

I think the strategy is pretty clear. It's kinda SMU approach using the PG as bunker for the Archmage and BSB, archers and Ring of Fury to clear enemy chaff, GE and ER to be used as my own chaff and redirectors, and SM to provide a juicy target and pack some punch (I don't expect them to survive much, but if they do, they can hit hard). Of course, most of my offensive power will come from my mage and PG, soI plan to use the GE and the ER to redirect charges and buy some time to shoot the stuff down.

What do you think?

Regards!


Last edited by merlinux on Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:09 pm 
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Does the 25% limit on Lords apply in this tourney?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:11 am 
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Auctor Aeternitatum
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The first question indeed is if you're playing 25% or 50% lord/hero's.

The PG really want the razor banner. Armour piercing makes all the difference with their S4 hits. To find the points I would drop the eagle. You can get away with just one redirector (the reavers) at 1100 points. Then I'd also drop the bows from the reavers. 5 S3 shots that will always have moved don't add much in my experience. Even more so because I would expect the unit to die in T2 or T3 while redirecting something.

I would personally also drop the ring of Fury. A bound item is always nice, but your archmage should be using all the dice with the book of Hoeth, so I'm not sure if you'll use it much. Of course, having 2 * 2D6 S4 hits in magic missiles can be brutal at 1100 points, so there's that to consider as well.

Removing these gives you 70 points to play with, which is the razor standard at 45 and an extra PG model. This would incidentally also push the archmage to the second rank of the unit, which gives him just that little bit of extra survivibility.

Rod

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:59 am 
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Eirik wrote:
Does the 25% limit on Lords apply in this tourney?

Yes, indeed. My bad. I have edited the first post to reflect this. Sorry and thanks for the heads-up.

Prince of Spires wrote:
The first question indeed is if you're playing 25% or 50% lord/hero's.

The PG really want the razor banner. Armour piercing makes all the difference with their S4 hits. To find the points I would drop the eagle. You can get away with just one redirector (the reavers) at 1100 points. Then I'd also drop the bows from the reavers. 5 S3 shots that will always have moved don't add much in my experience. Even more so because I would expect the unit to die in T2 or T3 while redirecting something.

I would personally also drop the ring of Fury. A bound item is always nice, but your archmage should be using all the dice with the book of Hoeth, so I'm not sure if you'll use it much. Of course, having 2 * 2D6 S4 hits in magic missiles can be brutal at 1100 points, so there's that to consider as well.
Rod


That's a pretty good idea indeed. I have to edit the first post in order to make some corrections, so I added your suggestion about the reavers. As for the Ring of Fury, I think its worth, because you also gain the +1 to the WardSave after casting while hitting hard, this way it makes extremely difficult to "soft" with shooting the PG unit (even if the Archmage is unable to pull a spell). Also, 2 * 2D6 S4 hits at this point it's (in my opinion) way too good to let it pass.

Prince of Spires wrote:
Removing these gives you 70 points to play with, which is the razor standard at 45 and an extra PG model. This would incidentally also push the archmage to the second rank of the unit, which gives him just that little bit of extra survivability.
Rod


Do you mean playing the PG in a 4*4 formation? Don't you lose the ranks plus in combat resolution if you do this?

Thanks a lot for the comments!!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:17 pm 
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A few questions:
1) At this points value, I'm unable to field an Archmage lvl 4 with BoH (for just 0.25 points haha, pretty clever from the tournament organizers). So I'll be fielding a lvl 3 with BoH, which I think is probably better than a lvl 4 without the book, right?
2) What about something like this:

+ Lords +
Archmage [270pts]: High Magic, Wizard Level 3
. Magic Items: AB - Book of Hoeth, BRB - Talisman of Endurance

+ Heroes +
Noble [159pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Dragon Armour, Great Weapon
. Magic Items: AB - Khaine's Ring of Fury, AB - Reaver Bow

+ Core +
Archers [100pts]: 10x Archer
Archers [100pts]: 10x Archer
Ellyrian Reavers [80pts]
. 5x Ellyrian Reaver: 5x Spear (Mounted)

+ Special +
Sword Masters of Hoeth [212pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, 14x Sword Master

+ Rare +
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower [70pts]
Great Eagle [50pts]: Great Eagle
Great Eagle [50pts]: Great Eagle

++ Total: [1,091pts] ++


SMs unit will be field in a 6*3 formation with both characters inside. My question is... at this point value, can the SMs be a better choice than the PG?

3) The extra ECBT adds some extra punch in my shooting phase (2 magic missiles, Reaver Bow, 20 archers, and the Bolt Thrower make some really brutal shooting/magic phase). It's worth it? Do I have to favor the CC units over the shooting?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:54 pm 
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Green Istari

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I’ll just comment on the latest list Merlinux. I like it because it has more high-strength attacks. I would drop the Book, Dispel Scroll is more important. Then you can go Lvl 4 which significantly improves spell selection. You also need spell volume to keep the ward save up on the Swordmasters. You absolutely want Banner of the World Dragon on Swordmasters, it’s a game-winner. I would go Merwyrm Shield, Ironcurse Icon, Sword of Anti-heroes on the BSB, he needs to hold his own in combat. RBT is good, I would add a second and drop the Eagles, as mentioned the Reavers will do.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:01 am 
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SA's advise is pretty solid. The spell selection of the lvl 4 is a lot better and a dispell scroll is always great to have (though perhaps a bit less than at higher points values).

One other option you could consider is a Loremaster. He's very strong at these points values. Few armies will have the tools to deal with 6 low cost spells with a couple of magic missiles in there.

I personally favor combat units over more shooting,though I know SA thinks the opposite. But that's because my archers are blind and couldn't hit a tree from 2 feet away even if their life depended on it. But to score points you often to get into combat with stuff. Shoot half of a unit off (which is a pretty good result from shooting) and it just hides in a corner, not giving up any points.

I think at this points level both the SM and the PG can perform well. The PG might surprise you if you've never tried them. They reroll against pretty much all units in the game, except for against other ASF. I've had combat rounds where I got 16 out of 16 hits. S4 is a downside, but even wounding with only half the attacks gives a lot of wounds. And few units can get 8 wounds on a PG unit with their ward.

It depends on the rest of the list which is better (and a lot on personal preference). The archmage with high magic works very well with a SM unit (they really benefit from the wardsave). If you go with a loremaster, then the PG are a great choice. They need the wardsave a lot less and perform great on their own. And they become absolute beasts with Wildform on them.
merlinux wrote:
Do you mean playing the PG in a 4*4 formation? Don't you lose the ranks plus in combat resolution if you do this?

Yeah, I was just thinking wrong. Never mind me.... :-6 :-({|=

Rod

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PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91

Check my writing blog for stories on the Prince of Spires and other pieces of fiction.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:54 pm 
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Thanks for all the advises! Here is my final draft:
Merlinux wrote:
+ Lords +
Archmage [270pts]: High Magic, Wizard Level 4
. Magic Items: AB - Khaine's Ring of Fury, BRB - Dispel Scroll

+ Heroes +
Noble [153pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour
. Magic Items: AB - Shield of the Merwyrm, BRB - Ironcurse Icon, BRB - Sword of Anti-Heroes

+ Core +
Archers [100pts]: 10x Archer
Archers [100pts]: 10x Archer
Ellyrian Reavers [80pts]
. 5x Ellyrian Reaver: 5x Spear (Mounted)
+ Special +
Sword Masters of Hoeth [275pts]: 15x Sword Master
. Champion
. Musician
. Standard Bearer: AB - Banner of the World Dragon

+ Rare +
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower [70pts]
Great Eagle [50pts]: Great Eagle

++ Total: [1,098pts] ++

I do love SA's BSB build. It's pretty solid for CC, and have a great synergy with the rest of the list. I love this one (plus I have all the needed models painted hehe).

About Prince's idea, I have come out with this:

Merlinux wrote:
+ Lords +
Loremaster of Hoeth [255pts]: Lores of Battle Magic, Wizard Level 2
. Magic Items: BRB - Dispel Scroll

+ Heroes +
Noble [150pts]: Battle Standard Bearer, Dragon Armour
. Magic Items: AB - Shield of the Merwyrm, BRB - Sword of Anti-Heroes

+ Core +
Archers [190pts]: 18x Archer, Musician
Ellyrian Reavers [90pts]: Musician
. 5x Ellyrian Reaver: 5x Spear (Mounted)

+ Special +
Phoenix Guard [285pts]: 14x Phoenix Guard
. Champion
. Musician
. Standard Bearer: BRB - Razor Standard

+ Rare +
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower [70pts]
Great Eagle [50pts]: Great Eagle

++ Total: [1,090pts] ++

Maybe I can drop the GE in order to add the Golden Crown to the Loremaster. And I think that probably the core composition is better, as it looks far more durable in combat (those archers pack 18 ASF attacks if charged, not really that bad). I like the idea of the Loremaster magic phase as some of the spells are really game-winning when combined with the rest of the list (WYSSAN'S WILDFORM on the PG, yes please!). The only downside... I have to paint a few more PG models :P


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:09 pm 
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Both look fun (which is what counts in the end). And I think they both could perform nicely. I like the core setup of the second list better as well. I think the 18 archers in a single unit are a better choice here. They can double as a second combat block against the right targets and an anvil against some more stuff. All the shooting in a single unit won't make all that much difference.

An added bonus is that you reduce your drops by one, which gives you a (slightly) higher chance of going first (or at least being able to chose).

Rod

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PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91

Check my writing blog for stories on the Prince of Spires and other pieces of fiction.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:29 pm 
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Green Istari

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merlinux wrote:
I do love SA's BSB build.

Thanks merlinux. Enemy characters can be an issue for Swordmasters and this guy definitely helps with that.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:19 pm 
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I quite like Phoenix Guards in low points lists (or in any list, really...). If you only have one combat unit, you don't want it to die. And the Loremaster is a very nice complement to them.

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