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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:23 pm
Posts: 3
Howdy boys. I just bought my HE and going for an opening with a 1500pt list in my Mighty Empires campaign. We are playing 8th edition.
C&C are welcome. Caradryan is my campaign general and must be included.

Lords:
Archmage - lvl 4, lore of high magic, book of hoeth, ToP

Heroes:
Caradryan

Core:
20 sea guards
20 sea guards
9 silver helms (3x3)

Special:
13 Phoenix Guards

Rare:
2 eagle claw bolt Thrower

=1499 pts

Caradryan and lvl 4 into the PG unit. Dropped a bsb and a few PG for 9 silver helms, feel like they are going to do more at this point size.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:09 pm 
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Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12615
Location: Otherworld
Hi Lothern

You’ve got a viable, shooting-focused list which should work fairly well against elves for example. I do feel it lacks a few things though. Firstly, it’s a good rule of thumb to stick close to minimum Core, other choices are generally better. The LSG aren’t strong and the Helms would be more flexible 2 x 5 because 9 still can’t fight well and 5’s are semi-disposable.

The PG are good but overall the list struggles to kill things in combat. I’d strongly consider swapping High Magic for Shadow. Shield of Saphery is great for the PG but they’re already solid, Shadow makes the Sea Guard an actual threat. I would take a Dispel Scroll (almost always) and Ring of Fury instead of the Book, good though it is.

Lothern wrote:
Dropped a bsb and a few PG for 9 silver helms

I’d be tempted not to and get a couple of Eagles in for redirection. The BSB re-rolls make your Infantry a lot more solid, while your shooting with Shadow would be very nasty and Eagles would help buy it time.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:55 am
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Okay, here goes my first effort at a list critique on Ulthuan, normally I'm the one asking for advice.

The level 4 and Caradryan at 1500 pts will be very good. I'd consider bringing a BSB back, but it's not absolutely necessary at 1500 pts, 1750+ and I'd say you do need to have a BSB. At 1500 enemies could also struggle to handle two decent CC characters and a level 4 too, so that could be another reason to bring one.

In core I agree you have too many points. For most armies core is a tax and High Elves are definitely not an exception to that, particularly considering the great special and rare options we have. You seem to have at least 300 points more of core than you need, so you can drop a Sea Guard unit easily. I'm not a fan of Sea Guard personally. Instead of 20 Sea Guard you could have 25 Spearmen, and that extra rank will definitely help in CC. If shooting is your aim I'd take Archers. You can have 24 Archers, which gives you more shots and those shots have a longer range. I know some people say the extra 6" isn't really significant, but I've really found it helpful when up against Wood Elves or something else that has 30" shots. It's always good to be able to match or out-range everyone, and Sea Guard cannot. The Silver Helms run as a 3x3 are a fast flanker, but your army is not an aggressive army, so you could have difficulty getting the good combo charges, and with 3x3 formation you'll never break Steadfast and will be ground down.

Having 13 PG is a decent size for this small of a game, particularly with Caradryan in there, but I'd advise you don't attack with them, unless your list changes a lot. They don't want to get isolated in midfield while the rest of your army sits back and shoots.

Bolt Throwers give good board control, no issue there.

I'd suggest adding some chaff. You've gone for more of a shooty list, so having road blocks and redirectors to slow down your opponents as they come in would be really useful.

I've also tried recreating your list, and I'm unsure about a few areas. From the points it looks as if you haven't given any units any command, and I'm not sure if you've given the Sea Guard Shields or if you've given the Silver Helms shields. I strongly recommend both of those armor upgrades for the core troops, T3 elves die too fast to not take them. I'd also recommend adding command groups. Standards are always good for all units unless you never expect the unit to see combat, but all of your units are expecting it. If you want to keep running Sea Guard, then Musicians will be a big help, letting them reform and still shoot. Champions are less mandatory, but one could always help in the Phoenix Guard both for the extra attack and in case your opponent's unit champ issues a challenge then Caradryan isn't forced to accept (he could refuse but he goes to the back and cannot fight). Phoenix Guard also have a surprisingly low damage output, they are ridiculously hard to kill but are the least killy of the 3 special units. The Razor Standard is expensive but worth it on Phoenix Guard. If I miscalculated the points and you've got all those upgrades, then whoops!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:49 pm 
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Auctor Aeternitatum
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Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:07 pm
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I agree with a lot of the things said by others. If you want to make the list stronger you should swap core models for something else.

One question that's good to know is if you will only be playing battle line or if you can expect some other scenario's. Mainly thinking about blood and glory here. Because if you expect to play blood and glory at some point then you should add in some more banners (technically, this list would lose automatically when playing blood and glory, since it has a fortitude of 2).

More detailed ideas:
I would merge the LSG into one unit, and reduce the number to 30. 1 unit of 30 is stronger then 2 of 20 I feel. CR is correct that usually spears or archers are a better choice. Archers because they shoot better, spears because they peform the anvil role as good as LSG, except that they are cheaper. Which means either more bodies (so better anvil) or cheaper unit, which then hurts less when they decide to run for it.

I would drop the LSG to 30 archers to complement the RBT in shooting and save the points.

With the points left over, I would give the PG the razor banner. PG with razor banner are a threatening unit to many things in the game. Especially at this points level. I regularly run a unit of 15, FC with the razor banner and they are often the many victory points unit. Hard to shift and can kill everything that doesn't have high armour. (as such, I would also increase your unit to 15 and give them full command. Banner is nice, muso helps reform if needed and champ is there for the challenges you want to ignore).

I think the lvl 4 archmage with BoH is overkill at this points level. I would personally take him with just a scroll and leave it at that. But I like to be relatively character light, so I would consider bringing just a lvl 2 with scroll. I would consider bringing a loremaster instead of an archmage as well. Like SA, I'm not a big fan of high magic for this list. I don't think there are enough synergies to make it work. Shadow is almost always a good lore for HE and it will benefit both PG and your shooting.

But a loremaster has a great toolbox that augments the list. Something to deal with single models in spirit leech, fireball is very strong at this points level (where taking out 3 models can be the majority of a unit dealt with) and wildform and searing doom help deal with heavily armoured stuff. Also, he's stronger in combat then the archmage. And with this list you're very likely to get him in combat at some point.

What is really lacking in this list is a redirector I think. Either a unit of 5 reavers (instead of some LSG in core) or a great eagle. Just something that can help you decide when you want to fight and where. For me it's immensely powerful and the one must have in a HE list. Just that one model you can drop in front of whatever you want, knowing it will die but it buys you an advantage somewhere else that helps you win the game. For me, local superiority is key.

Rod

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