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 Post subject: Army List for Tournament
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Hi all!

Someone came over the EEFL forums and is asking for help with his HE list. Figured you guys would know best!

http://eefl.freeforums.net/thread/1394/ ... llTo=27505


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:38 pm 
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Green Istari

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Unless I’m much mistaken this is the army of CaledorRises. I agree with the guys on EEFL that the revised list with Swordmasters is playable, though the lack of shooting remains a problem. Life though is not good here IMHO because it further weakens board control and those Swordmasters really need High Magic for Shield of Saphery because they lack World Dragon.

I also think the earlier list with 3 Phoenixes is viable. That’s a good start and the Lvl 4 with Scroll gives a much stronger magic phase than the first two lists. Shadow helps the dodgy Spear units.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Hahahaha! The one and only! My lists are that distinctive in their unconventionality, eh? My game that was supposed to happen this past week got pushed back to January so I've been planning the tournament list and trying to figure out what I need to try to get painted.

I was thinking Life for the Swordmaster support in an effort to keep them alive with things like Regrowth and Flesh to Stone while avoiding having my Mage on the front lines. But High Magic on the front would be a better fit?

The triple Phoenix list was intended to be a very fast combat oriented list, the one thing really letting it down is the Spears. I've got some archers finally, but won't be able to paint up enough by the tournament. I think I could get 10 done, but no more. I think archers in core to try and shoot away chaff, or possibly Silver Helms would make the list better. I'm currently trying to figure out how to get some Silver Helms, I'm thinking of just using Dragon Princes, but I'll have to model them and paint them sufficiently differently that people can tell which ones are Silver Helms and which are my mandatory DPs.

Also, you may be glad to hear that I've also got some Sisters of Avelorn waiting on the table to paint, and managed to snag a bag of bits that contains the assorted pieces for 2, possibly 3, bolt throwers that I'll have to paint! I'll be joining the shooty elf party before too long...


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:57 am 
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Auctor Aeternitatum
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I agree on high magic for the archmage. You want the swordmasters to survive. And the ward save from high magic is the best way to achieve that. Combined with the ring of fury you should manage two spells for a 5+ ward and 4+ vs regular shooting. Which should at least get you into combat unharmed for the most part.

I would personally mount the BSB and put him in the DP unit. 2 reasons: you get a better armour save and you have some fight left in the unit if you end up stuck in combat without charging. For this reason I would also drop the sword of might and the ward save for the ogre blade. That way you have 2 main combat units.

Other things I would do is:
- drop the bows on the reavers. They're not going to achieve anything with them. 5 S3 shots hitting on 4, wounding at best on 4 means 1 wound before saves. The points can be better spend elsewhere.
- change the seaguard to archers. They fight just as good but are cheaper and have longer range. I would also swap the standard for a musician, unless you need it for blood and glory
- I would drop the champion and banner from the spears (and the banner of swiftness). I don't think you'll need the +1M in many situations

All in all this gives you perhaps 60 points to play with for more SM, DP, switching the SM to PG or some other fun thing of course.

Rod

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:52 pm 
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So how does this look? I haven't been able to implement all of the changes, many of the suggestions were reductions in Core Points, and I'm down to 500 now.

Archmage Level 4 w/ Lore of High Magic, Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Preservation, Khaine's Ring of Fury
Noble BSB mounted on Barded Elven Steed w/ Dragon Armor, Shield, Ogre Blade
30x Spearmen FC
5x Ellyrian Reavers w/ Musician
10x Archers w/ Standard
25x Swordmasters of Hoeth FC w/ Razor Standard
10x Dragon Princes of Caledor FC w/ Banner of Eternal Flame
Frostheart Phoenix
Great Eagle
1997

I kept the standard in the archers for Blood and Glory to keep up my threshold. Now I have to go rush and paint some archers and a Great Eagle.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:30 pm 
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Green Istari

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CaledorRises wrote:
avoiding having my Mage on the front lines.

I get this but quite often you want him in your best combat unit. Far less likely to be swept away and more likely to be in range, in particular for the Life Attribute. A High or Life Archmage (3 wounds of course) with a 4+ Ward is fairly survivable.

CaledorRises wrote:
The triple Phoenix list was intended to be a very fast combat oriented list, the one thing really letting it down is the Spears. I've got some archers finally, but won't be able to paint up enough by the tournament.

Shadow magic makes HE Core more functional because Mindrazor on High Ld ASF troops is brutal. Archers are generally just better than either Spears or LSG because they can fight virtually as well. The block of 30 Spears is functional though, it’s good points denial if nothing else.

CaledorRises wrote:
Also, you may be glad to hear that I've also got some Sisters of Avelorn waiting on the table to paint, and managed to snag a bag of bits that contains the assorted pieces for 2, possibly 3, bolt throwers that I'll have to paint! I'll be joining the shooty elf party before too long...

This is all good. Sisters suffer in competing with RBT for the same Rare points because the latter are just more flexible. They’re OK though.

Prince of Spires wrote:
I agree on high magic for the archmage.

Life is potent but it’s a blunt instrument. Dwellers might win you a game. Buffing the Swordmasters will keep them mostly protected. High Magic protects them while your spells are doing useful stuff at range, it’s more flexible. This is especially important because the list lacks shooting to do this. New list looks fine to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:51 am 
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Shadow magic is great for a HE army. It has a lot of tools that help out. Mindrazor PG are probably the best unit in the game (if you can pull it off), though it even makes HE core terrifying. That fact alone means that your opponent will have to let other spells get cast, just so he can stop mindrazor. And withering and miasma are great to have in a HE army. The weak spell of the lore is probably steed of shadows. And pendulum is very situational. Also, the lore attribute is probably useless (at least, it has never done anything for me).

I think the main downside of sisters compared to RBT is the range. The RBT range means you can target practically anything and you can easily have multiple RBT able to target the same unit. The 24'' of the Sisters doesn't go very far. And lacking a musician doesn't help either. But they do comparable damage when they hit for about the same price, especially vs forces of destruction (who-ever thought of that limiting rule should be shot in my opinion...). Also, sisters are more mobile then the RBT. So that is something you can use to your advantage.

I'm not a big fan of life as a lore. It always feels like a blunt instrument. Though it can work with some lists. And there is no denying that dwellers is a game-winning spell.

I like the new list. It should do well. As I was typing my comments, I realized that there might be some limitations to what was possible in regards to core points. But I didn't feel like doing the math that far ;)

Rod

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Please try to remember that, no matter how 'official' the source seems, rumours are basically just a dictionary combined with a random number generator

For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91


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