Ulthuan

Nice. It has something simple, together with the bases, that just makes the models themselves stand out.

Thanks guys!

In other news my magic phase came in the post:

Yeah, time to get stomping!

It's actually a lovely "risk-reward" type of spell. a 1 in 6 chance to have your own unit stomped for a 1 in 2 chance to stomp something twice.

Prince of Spires wrote:Yeah, time to get stomping!

There were some other cards too Rod but doubt I'll be using those much!

Troll Tray:



Now I just have to paint the second rank...

Do it. They are all amazing models, and I always like to see them painted up. Which reminds me, now that I gave in and went full army on the gobbos, maybe I "need" a couple more of these classic trolls myself.

Shannar, Sealord wrote:Which reminds me, now that I gave in and went full army on the gobbos, maybe I "need" a couple more of these classic trolls myself.

Yeah. You know you definitely need them.

Though of course, to be true classics, they should be blue (for some reason)

The blue is absolutely required on stone trolls. Goblins can be brown (if you must), but stone trolls MUST be blue.

Prince of Spires wrote:Yeah. You know you definitely need them.

+1

Shannar, Sealord wrote:The blue is absolutely required on stone trolls. Goblins can be brown (if you must), but stone trolls MUST be blue.

I love the Limited Palette too much!


Goblin Tray:

That's a nice looking unit. The army is coming along nicely.

I like what you did with the Trolls! The greenish tones look suitable for River Trolls I think

Thanks guys.

elendor_f wrote:The greenish tones look suitable for River Trolls I think

Funnily enough, I've just played some games which have shed some light on what kind of Trolls they're going to be...


Champions of Destiny - The Sundering

So this was a one day tournament, held at Wargames Workshop in Milton Keynes and run by the estimable Mark Peat. Three games of 8th Edition at escalating points totals. Allied forces of 500pts were added to our lists in each game. Ironically I arrived on time for once but my first game started late anyway. I was due to play the organiser but he was temporarily unavailable. So Kim took up the cudgels (and the elves) on Mark's behalf.



Game One - 1000 + 500pts
Meeting Engagement


Orcs and Goblins

Orc Lvl 4, Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring
Orc Hero General, Armour of Silvered Steel, GW
Orc BSB, Armour of Destiny, Great Weapon

21 Big'Uns, Shields, FC, Std of Discipline
5 Wolf Riders, Shortbows

2 Snotling Bases
Spear Chukka
Spear Chukka

Rock Lobber

4 Beasts of Nurgle
Beast of Nurgle
13 Horrors, Full Command


High Elves

Lvl 3, Life, Stuff
Lvl 1, High, Stuff
Korhil

19 Sea Guard, Shields, FC

10 Phoenix Guard, FC

Frostheart
RBT

20 High Elf Archers
Frostheart

Thoughts on the match-up?

SpellArcher wrote:Allied forces of 500pts were added to our lists in each game

I can't comment on the matchup since my knowledge of 8th edition is severely lacking, but I was curious about the army list organization since it seems cool, did you have to submit a 1000p list plus 2 or 3 500 points list of allied forces, or were those allied forces pre-determined by the organizers?

elendor_f wrote:I can't comment on the matchup since my knowledge of 8th edition is severely lacking, but I was curious about the army list organization since it seems cool, did you have to submit a 1000p list plus 2 or 3 500 points list of allied forces, or were those allied forces pre-determined by the organizers?

We had to submit three basic lists elendor, for 1000, 1500 & 2000 pts. To each was added 300pts of Monsters or Monstrous stuff plus 200pts of Allied Core, our choice in each case. I used the same in each game for simplicity. So effectively we were playing 1500 then 2000 then 2500.


Deployment

Meeting Engagement of course encourages diagonal deployments. I won the roll-off and hence had to deploy my whole army first. I dropped the artillery towards my home corner. The Big’Uns (with characters) were front and centre, a Beast to their left and then the Wolf Riders. Right of the Orcs were more Beasts, then Snotties with Horrors behind.





The pre-game rolling forced one Phoenix and the LSG to start in reserve. Despite this Kim dropped the second Frostheart and the PG (with Korhil and Mage) aggressively forward. The Archers (with Archmage) were further back and the RBT at the back.



The Archmage rolled up Flesh to Stone, Throne of Vines and Regrowth while the Mage chose Drain Magic. The Horrors defaulted to Blue Fire, their Signature Magic Missile. I struggle to recall the Shaman’s spells for reasons which will become clear!

Turn One

Against expectations, Kim rolled a 6 and seized the first turn! Phoenix and Phoenix Guard both charged my Big’Uns and made it in. “No worries” I thought. “I’ll hold on Steadfast and put the Beasts into the flanks next turn”.



Magic achieved little but the poor Wolf Riders were rapidly shot off the board. As planned, the Orcs died a bit and found themselves rolling a Steadfast Break Test. Not as planned, the dice came up 10. Still confident (I’d invested in the +1 Ld banner) I BSB re-rolled: 11. Aargh! There was an extra moment of desperate hope when the PG rolled a 4 for their Pursuit but of course the Frostheart ruthlessly ran my guys down.



A bit sad that half my army had disappeared before my first turn, I did what I could. The Beasts made a beeline for the Archers, while the Horrors and war machines targeted the Phoenix. Snotties headed off the PG. The daemons did best, a surprisingly potent Blue Fire taking a couple of wounds off. It was something.

Turn Two



The Sea Guard and second Phoenix reached the battlefield. The other Frostheart charged a bolt shooter. The PG turned to face the Snotlings while the reinforcements closed in on the Horrors.



Flesh to Stone went up on the Archers while shooting took two wounds off the solo Beast.The war machine was duly crunched, the victorious Phoenix reforming to surround the Horrors.



The lone Beast charged in, contacting the Archmage, while his brethren closed the gap. Magic and shooting did nothing. The Beast killed the Archmage but the Steadfast Break Test was passed.

Turn Three



Both Phoenixes charged the poor Horrors. PG charged the snotties. Drain Magic was dispelled while shooting failed. The Snotlings were duly chopped up and the daemons Thunderstomped to death.



The Beasts charged the Archers. Shooting failed to wound the injured Phoenix. Combat was predictably nasty, the Beasts chewing up the Archers. Too little too late though as time was called.



4 - 16

That's probably best described as "painful".

It's always a bit tricky when you have to deploy everything before your opponent, though having your opponent with half his army in reserve compensated for that a fair bit. That would have really mattered if you would have gotten first turn I think. Then you could have dealt with those elements separately. The LSG for instance could have been kept out of the game for a long time.

Now, you were left with playing catchup all game and you never really recovered I think.

It's also the nature of the points level I think, where a couple of units end up being a large part of your army, even without resulting to deathstar units.

Not sure if you could have done anything differently.

Rod

Prince of Spires wrote:Not sure if you could have done anything differently.

Yeah, I wasn't unhappy with my play Rod. I had a 1 in 36 chance of breaking. Otherwise I hold and put the Beasts in next turn, then I really fancy it because of the Poison. I was impressed with Parry (and Toughness 4) helping to keep Orc casualties down. I could have been more cautious but as we saw, my ranged attacks are not enough to keep two Frosthearts in check.

Prince of Spires wrote:It's also the nature of the points level I think,

Completely agree, at 2500 I might have produced more of a fightback.


Game Two - Battle for the Pass

Orc Warboss, Armour of Silvered Steel, Dawnstone, Ironcurse, GW

Orc BSB, 4+ Ward Armour, Great Weapon
Orc Lvl 2, Dispel Scroll
Orc Lvl 2, Scroll of Shielding

25 Big'Uns, Shields, FC, Banner of Swiftness
20 Goblins, Shortbows, Full Command
5 Wolf Riders, Shortbows

8 Trolls
2 Snotling Bases
Spear Chukka
Spear Chukka

Rock Lobber

13 Horrors, Full Command
4 Beasts of Nurgle
Beast of Nurgle


Arch Lector on War Altar, stuff

Knight BSB
Lvl 2 Light
Lvl 2 Light

40 Halberdiers, FC
20 Spears, Shields
15 Swordsmen
10 Swordsmen
5 Archers

9 Inner Circle Knights, FC

Celestial Hurricanum

Unridden Griffon
Unridden Griffon


Thoughts on the match-up?

SpellArcher wrote:I had a 1 in 36 chance of breaking.

Very much so. And if you add in that you should have gotten first turn the odds for the whole sequence were even worse. In WH you can't really plan for a 1 in 216 chance of something happening.

SpellArcher wrote:

Prince of Spires wrote:It's also the nature of the points level I think,

Completely agree, at 2500 I might have produced more of a fightback.

Very much so. Already because losing a 300-ish points (400?) unit at 2500pts is not nice but also definitely not the end of the world. Especially if you can make something happen elsewhere on the field while your opponent is busy with the 300points.

SpellArcher wrote:Thoughts on the match-up?

I think the main worry for you is the knights + arch lector. Though I must confess that I have no idea how a Hurricanum performs (I generally assume "not well" if I don't come across it often ). The halberdiers should be kept away until you can gang up on them or thinned out a bit so you can deal with them in 1 or 2 turns.

I like your auxiliary monster selection better. 2 griffons are definitely something that needs to be dealt with. But I would rather have them in my backline then 5 beasts of nurgle I think. A high enough volume of attacks deals with them easily enough. And you have plenty of S4 and S5 attacks to deal with them.

Rod

Prince of Spires wrote: Very much so. Already because losing a 300-ish points (400?) unit at 2500pts is not nice but also definitely not the end of the world. Especially if you can make something happen elsewhere on the field while your opponent is busy with the 300points.

It was a bit uglier than that because all three characters were in the unit Rod! Though I have seen stirring fightbacks from HE players after losing the cavalry bus, Seredain for example.

Prince of Spires wrote:the main worry for you is the knights + arch lector

Prophetic.

Prince of Spires wrote:Though I must confess that I have no idea how a Hurricanum performs (I generally assume "not well" if I don't come across it often

It's a buff wagon. So +1 PD, +1 to hit for units within 6", a bound spell.

Prince of Spires wrote:The halberdiers should be kept away until you can gang up on them or thinned out a bit so you can deal with them in 1 or 2 turns.

My thoughts exactly. Most of the Infantry are junk but the magic phase is nasty, especially the buff spam, even more than I'd thought. Monstrous troops are normally good against Empire but I still don't think the match-up favours me, even in Battle for the Pass.

Prince of Spires wrote:griffons

I'd be very happy against these with elves but here my ranged attacks are less reliable.


Deployment



Sensibly, Tom dropped the Halberdiers front and centre, flanked and screened by the remaining Infantry and backed up by the buff wagons. The knights were on the left and you can see a Griffon's wings behind the trees. The other one was on the other flank, out of picture.



So I have Beasts on my left, screened by Wolf Riders. Then Horrors in the wood. You can see the solo Beast and then the Orcs (plus characters) fairly central, Snotties in front. Artillery back a bit.



Here we see the last few units again. On my right I have Trolls, preceded by Goblins. A bolt shooter is fairly advanced, both to shoot better and invite a charge.

One Shaman got the two snipe spells, the other got buffs. No Foot of Gork but the Horrors rolled Gateway! The Light wizards got Shem's, Banishment, Pha's and Speed of Light, pretty good. Plus the ton of bound spells of course.

Thoughts?

SpellArcher wrote:

Prince of Spires wrote: Very much so. Already because losing a 300-ish points (400?) unit at 2500pts is not nice but also definitely not the end of the world. Especially if you can make something happen elsewhere on the field while your opponent is busy with the 300points.

It was a bit uglier than that because all three characters were in the unit Rod! Though I have seen stirring fightbacks from HE players after losing the cavalry bus, Seredain for example.

Prince of Spires wrote:the main worry for you is the knights + arch lector

Prophetic.

Prince of Spires wrote:Though I must confess that I have no idea how a Hurricanum performs (I generally assume "not well" if I don't come across it often

It's a buff wagon. So +1 PD, +1 to hit for units within 6", a bound spell.

Prince of Spires wrote:The halberdiers should be kept away until you can gang up on them or thinned out a bit so you can deal with them in 1 or 2 turns.

My thoughts exactly. Most of the Infantry are junk but the magic phase is nasty, especially the buff spam, even more than I'd thought. Monstrous troops are normally good against Empire but I still don't think the match-up favours me, even in Battle for the Pass.

Prince of Spires wrote:griffons

I'd be very happy against these with elves but here my ranged attacks are less reliable.


Deployment



Sensibly, Tom dropped the Halberdiers front and centre, flanked and screened by the remaining Infantry and backed up by the buff wagons. The knights were on the left and you can see a Griffon's wings behind the trees. The other one was on the other flank, out of picture.



So I have Beasts on my left, screened by Wolf Riders. Then Horrors in the wood. You can see the solo Beast and then the Orcs (plus characters) fairly central, Snotties in front. Artillery back a bit.



Here we see the last few units again. On my right I have Trolls, preceded by Goblins. A bolt shooter is fairly advanced, both to shoot better and invite a charge.

One Shaman got the two snipe spells, the other got buffs. No Foot of Gork but the Horrors rolled Gateway! The Light wizards got Shem's, Banishment, Pha's and Speed of Light, pretty good. Plus the ton of bound spells of course.

Thoughts?

Really love those oldschool models!!!
As for the battle, this is eight? I am not sure. Skwieks do not bounce out of their unit anymore right?

Flame of the Asuryan wrote:Really love those oldschool models!!!

Thanks dude!

Flame of the Asuryan wrote:As for the battle, this is eight?

Yep, 8th Edition.

Flame of the Asuryan wrote:Skwieks do not bounce out of their unit anymore right?

I've only got one and he counts as a goblin!

On ethought I had, which I forgot to mention earlier is that Battle for the pass doesn't favour your army. You lack a strong ranged presence, you don't have very high mobility and you need to stay in your LD bubble more then some other armies. Which can be challenging if the battlefield gets stretched out. Though if you manage to keep a steady line the narrow front could be a benefit (though then the empire troops get to benefit from light bubble spells as well).

It looks like you need to make something happen on either of the flanks. The bottom side looks like the weakest empire flank. So, with you beasts there, that is where you should probably push. Though perhaps then the wolf riders are a bit out of position (since in this case you would then want to stall the top side of the empire line). And you probably could use a second hard hitting unit to support the beasts.

We'll see how it goes.

Rod

Prince of Spires wrote:Battle for the pass doesn't favour your army.

In most games I agree Rod but Tom has practically no shooting. He has to push with M4 Infantry.

Prince of Spires wrote:It looks like you need to make something happen on either of the flanks. The bottom side looks like the weakest empire flank. So, with you beasts there, that is where you should probably push.

Agreed.

Prince of Spires wrote:And you probably could use a second hard hitting unit to support the beasts.

They’re Beasts of Nurgle Rod!




Turn One



Sensibly, Tom pushed forwards in the centre. The Griffons also advanced towards my screens. Banishment did it’s job and removed plenty of Horrors. My turn began with the Wolf Riders failing Animosity and deciding to charge their Griffon, much to the annoyance of the Beasts!



I shuffled the Orcs backwards and Reformed the Goblins awkwardly on the right. Shooting did nothing. Magic put a wound on a wizard. Combat was drawn as I lost a model but had charged.

SpellArcher wrote:They’re Beasts of Nurgle Rod!

Sorry, forgot...

Fair enough. Though in general I don't like having units unsupported in combat. Even if they are more then capable enough. It leaves you one round of bad dice away from failure. If things would go south for them there isn't much in the way of support you can offer.

SpellArcher wrote:In most games I agree Rod but Tom has practically no shooting. He has to push with M4 Infantry.

On the other hand he does have impressive magic. Even Shems aimed at your chaos auxiliaries can be very painful. He should at least have some tools there to make something happen, even at range.

SpellArcher wrote:My turn began with the Wolf Riders failing Animosity and deciding to charge their Griffon, much to the annoyance of the Beasts!

It's O&G after all. You can count on those little buggers to screw up your best laid plans...

Still, by holding for a turn, they at least aren't proven wrong by charging Which does actually show the weakness of the griffon quite well. Killing only 1 wolf rider is just not very impressive. They really need to be able to thunderstomp something to be worth it I think.

Rod

Prince of Spires wrote:If things would go south for them there isn't much in the way of support you can offer.

I suspect Rod, that the Beasts scored me more points over this event than the rest of the army put together!

Prince of Spires wrote:On the other hand he does have impressive magic. Even Shems aimed at your chaos auxiliaries can be very painful. He should at least have some tools there to make something happen, even at range.

Two can play at that game.

Prince of Spires wrote:They really need to be able to thunderstomp something to be worth it I think.

The Wolf Riders are so small that they look like they should be Stompable! But Cavalry are nicely resistant to such things. The unit seems pretty game. After their noble sacrifice in round one, they got pretty fruity in the last round too!


Turn Two



The unengaged Griffon charged the bolt shooter. The Empire centre pushed further forwards. I believe bubbled Pha’s protection went up. The other Griffon beat, broke and caught the Wolf Riders, pursuing into the Beasts. His brother destroyed the war machine.



I edged the solo Beast around the Empire Infantry and threw the Snotties forward to block. Goblins and Trolls shuffled forwards on the right. Magic was a peach, the Horrors got off a meaty Gateway! Unfortunately they targeted the Arch Lector, putting a wound on him and one on his Altar. Should have gone for the Hurricanum but at least the Attribute got them a couple of models back. Shooting did nothing. The Beasts beat their Griffon but he escaped the Pursuit, emerging beyond the blocking solo Beast.

I think you're in a pretty decent spot. Though it's a shame that the griffon got away. If you would have gotten it then your beasts could have started down the flank of the army (it looks like they have a flank charge on the swordmen at least). Now it will take another turn of positioning before you can start chopping away at the bulk of the empire army. Though stuff might still be able to walk out of charge range in the empire T3 of course.

The empire line looks like it has fewer options. Their line is a bit messy and bunched up. They can either stand still or move forward as a group. Not much room for getting creative and trying to get flanks or setting up multiple charges. Which actually means that your lowly snotlings are by themselves managing to hold up almost an entire empire army for a turn. Pretty impressive I'd say

Though the same perhaps can be said for your goblins, who might be starting to get in the way of the trolls if they really want to achieve something. Though I suppose they could be used as a diversion to buy yourself another turn to set up charges. If you swing them round and march them in front of the knight unit, angling towards the board edge, then the trolls could either have a flank on the knights or some nice charges in your turn.

Your centre then just needs to stay intact enough to help either the trolls or the beasts. Which I think they are doing. The horrors are taking a beating but I think the big uns are still untouched. Which lets them provide the ranks needed to break the halberdiers together with the beasts.

Let's see what happens.

Rod

Prince of Spires wrote:Though I suppose they could be used as a diversion to buy yourself another turn to set up charges.

Oh Rod, if only my brain had been switched on!


Turn Three



The Knights charged the Goblins. For some crazy reason, it didn’t even occur to me to Hold. Instead I Fled them and the Knights crashed into the Trolls. “No worries, only one character and I ignore the 1+ Armour.” The fact that the relevant magic phase would be Tom’s and not mine failed to register. The buff wagons moved up in support and the Infantry fanned out.



A solid Winds roll saw Banishment and one Prayer dispelled, while I scrolled the one that gave Flaming attacks. The 5+ Ward Prayer went up on the Knights. I had thought that Prayers could only affect the Caster and his unit but the Arch Lector’s work at range. In the event bad Regen rolls sealed the Trolls’ fate and they were broken and run down.



I managed to kill the Fleeing Griffon in my turn and then we ran out of time.

8 - 12

A shame on the loss. It felt like you were ahead most of the game. Also, I think it wasn't to your advantage that you ran out of time. With the knights and the buff wagons occupied on your right flank, you could have dealt with the squishier infantry units on the left. Yes, these were for the most part untouched. But the same goes for the beasts and the big uns.

I'm wondering if perhaps it would have helped if you'd been more aggressive with the big uns unit. Now they didn't achieve all that much during the game. While I think they could have gone toe to toe with most of the empire infantry units.

All in all, I do think you could have still won this if you'd had another two or three turns. Though then perhaps you would have had to make more happen in your turn 3 as well.

Rod

Prince of Spires wrote:A shame on the loss.

Thanks Rod.

Prince of Spires wrote:With the knights and the buff wagons occupied on your right flank, you could have dealt with the squishier infantry units on the left.

Hard to tell I think. The Impassable terrain between the Knights and the Orcs probably buys me a turn but I have yet to get the Beasts into and through the disposable Swordsmen on my left.

Prince of Spires wrote:I'm wondering if perhaps it would have helped if you'd been more aggressive with the big uns unit. Now they didn't achieve all that much during the game. While I think they could have gone toe to toe with most of the empire infantry units.

The issue I suspect is not getting stuck on the Halberdiers and eating the kind of buff spam phase that destroyed the Trolls. Also, if the Orcs had been further forwards when the Trolls caved the knights could have Reformed to threaten an immediate flank charge.

This game showed how rusty I was, having not played in a year. Tom was sharper and was right more often than me over rules points, something I normally pride myself on. Still, it was educational.