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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 4:06 am 
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Hello all,

New to the forum. I've recently joined a gaming club where several people thankfully play WFB (8th). With this in mind I wanted to get back into Fantasy with a new army and I've decided on going High Elves! I played some back in the day but the most recent book and units are all new to me. That being said I went out to make an army list to play and was looking for some feedback.

The atmosphere at the club where I'll be playing is serious but not super competitive. Not trying to win-at-all-costs but I wanted a fun list that would have a good chance at winning. I especially wanted a list where I could be active in all the phases. Let me know what you think!

Lords
305 – Archmage w:/lvl 4, Talisman of Endurance, Book of Hoeth.
Going to run this guy with Lore of High Magic in my Phoenix Guard
Heroes
303 – Noble w:/ Armor of Destiny, lance, shield, Griffon, BSB.
Mobile BSB. Will hopefully be able to give me the leadership and extra combat power wherever needed
135 – Mage w:/ Dispell scroll, Khaines ring of fury.
Probably going to use Lore of Life with this guy. Bunkered in with my archers.
Core
164 – (14) Archers w:/musician, light armor.
Armor upgrade is debatable but I needed the points to satisfy for core requirement.
2X 105 – (5) Ellyrion Reavers w:/ musician and bows.
Annoying, fast, anything I need basically.
270 – (20) Lothern Sea Guard w:/ Full command, Shields.
Nice core block that will add to the shooting.
Special
510 – (29) Phoenix Guard w:/ Full Command, Razor Banner.
Almost death-star level unit. I felt obligated to take so many and the banner because I’m already tailoring my Archmage to work with them (adding to their ward save). I might come to
regret it but I doubt it.
303 – (21) White Lions w:/ Full command.
Running them 7 wide to maximize attacks. Hard hitting unit that will hopefully not take TOO much shooting damage. The hammer to my anvil.
120 – Lothern Skycutter w:/ Bolt Thrower.
I know I want to take at least one chariot and this just seems so cool. I don’t expect it to live long but I don’t know.
Rare
2X 50 – Giant Eagle.
Two naked Eagles for all the great shenanigans that they do. I feel like I need these because I don’t have any other miss-directors then the Reavers.
70 – Bolt Thrower.
Not sure if it'd be better to drop the Chariot and take another one or two.

Total: 2490

I guess my only questions would be what do I do (remove, take something new) to make it even 2500.

Also, a side note, does anyone know where the reference is for the rule regarding the 18in bubble for a BSB on a monster? I know that it applies for a General's leadership bubble but I can't find an official source saying it works for BSB as well. I could be reading it wrong or just not know where the rule is.

Thanks for your feedback!


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:07 pm 
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TheKneesofRaj wrote:
Hello all,

Welcome sir!

:)

TheKneesofRaj wrote:
Also, a side note, does anyone know where the reference is for the rule regarding the 18in bubble for a BSB on a monster? I know that it applies for a General's leadership bubble but I can't find an official source saying it works for BSB as well. I could be reading it wrong or just not know where the rule is.

Page 72.

TheKneesofRaj wrote:
305 – Archmage w:/lvl 4, Talisman of Endurance, Book of Hoeth.

Good build. Talisman of Preservation is worth the extra 15pts if you can find them.

TheKneesofRaj wrote:
303 – Noble w:/ Armor of Destiny, lance, shield, Griffon, BSB.

Griffons are generally considered dodgy because they have no saving throws, so die easily. One trick is to take Banner of the World Dragon but I think you need that later in the list. Another is to ride an Eagle instead because as Monstrous Cavalry the combined model gets to use the rider's saves. Some guys convert the IoB Griffon to an eagle or just use as is.

TheKneesofRaj wrote:
135 – Mage w:/ Dispell scroll, Khaines ring of fury.

Because this guy will be in 30" range Archers and wants to keep his distance I suggest taking a ranged Lore like Fire and either dropping the 18" Ring or taking the 24" Ruby Ring instead.

TheKneesofRaj wrote:
270 – (20) Lothern Sea Guard w:/ Full command, Shields.

Sea Guard are generally considered worse than Archers because the latter are cheaper, fight in three ranks already and 30" range is much better than 24". LSG can still do a job though. The Archers and Reavers look fine.

TheKneesofRaj wrote:
510 – (29) Phoenix Guard w:/ Full Command, Razor Banner.

20 can work in the right list. Here I think you could certainly make do with 24-25.

TheKneesofRaj wrote:
303 – (21) White Lions w:/ Full command.

This unit needs Banner of the World Dragon. This instantly takes half the stuff they care about out of the game. Moreover, Lion Cloaks don't work vs Magical shooting, which this fixes. For this style of list you probably want 24-25 because it depends heavily on these two blocks.

TheKneesofRaj wrote:
Two naked Eagles

I feel you should drop at least one. The Reavers overlap.

TheKneesofRaj wrote:
Not sure if it'd be better to drop the Chariot and take another one or two.

Tactically, it would be much better. 3-4 RBT are very important to this kind of list because they can hurt tough and well-armoured targets in a way that archery can't. The list is relatively slow, so needs strong shooting and magic to make some enemies come to it. But at times we all make compromises to include cool models etc..

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 7:20 am 
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Disclaimer: My advice, like SpellArcher (who covered a lot of points correctly), will aim at making the list as competitive as possible. That doesn't mean you should follow all of it. Sometimes it's worth just bringing a model because it looks cool (I certainly do) or because you like how it plays. Also, depending on the group you play in some stuff might be frowned upon as being "not fun" to play against. But this varies a lot between groups.

Archmage is fine. As SA mentions, the Talisman of preservation is worth the extra points. But with High magic it should be ok. Be sure to stick him on the end of the unit to minimise the number of attacks your opponent can direct at him.

BSB: I think putting him on a griffon doesn't fit with the list very well. I think it's a cool way to play him though not the strongest setup. No armour save on him is an issue as SA mentions. But he wants to be in a fast list with another monster and / or cavalry support. As he is now, he wants to move fast but the rest of the list doesn't. Also, a better setup I think is Heavy armour, dragon helm, ogre blade, shield. That way, if he's stuck in combat for a second round he will still be S6.

Mage: I think the ring is not necessary. With the archmage and the mage you will have 6 spells already. I don't think you will have the magic dice for the ring. But also that the lore of life is probably not the best choice for him. If he's in an archer unit the Earth Blood isn't a very good spell. And with only 2 spells, you want a lore with a good signature spell. Fire, Beast, Metal, Light and shadow are all probably better choices.

Archers: you've already said it yourself. Taking the armour upgrade is usually not worth the points. You want more shots whenever possible. But if you're limited by the models you have then that's what you have to go by.

Reavers: I think the bows are not worth the extra points. 5 shots at S3 don't add a lot. And they make a unit whose goal on the battle field is to die (gloriously) more expensive then it needs to be. But again, it that's what's needed to make core points then they are a decent buy.

29 PG: this is more then enough. With the archmage in there they should have a 3+ ward save a lot of the time. And with High WS and ASF they will not take a lot of damage in almost all fights. The banner is necessary for a unit this size. It really makes a big difference if you have -1 or -2 to armour saves. If you need some points elsewhere you can consider dropping 4 - 9 PG models actually (I often run 15 with a lot of success). But that is something you should probably play test to see what you prefer.

WL: don't worry about shooting going into combat. With a 3+ save they should not take too much damage from light shooting. If you want to protect them from magical shooting (which covers a lot of warmachines and WE shooting) then the Banner of the World Dragon is your friend. It is a great supplement to this unit.

Eagles: you could drop one or even both without losing too much from the list. The reavers already have redirection duty. And you could even use the archers for this if needed.

More bolt throwers is better. 1 doesn't do much. If you go with shooting 6 bolts (which is the best option in most cases) then you'll do 3 hits and 2 wounds per shooting phase on average. Not that impressive. If you have 3 you increase their reliability (rolling more dice means you're more likely to end up with the average). And 6 wounds is not fun for their ideal targets (tough units and cavalry units).

Rod

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Thank you guys a ton for your advice/feedback. Alot of what you said made sense. I made some revisions to the list:

Lords
320 – Archmage [General/Lore of High Magic] w:/lvl 4, Talisman of Preservation, Book of Hoeth.
-Took the 4+ when I had the extra points.
Heroes
203 – Noble w:/ Armor of Destiny, lance, shield, Great Eagle, BSB.
-I like the idea of him on an Eagle alot more. I wasn't 100% clear on the rules for him being on a griff...I just saw the IoB model I just got and assumed. I'm gonna keep the lance and Armor of Destiny build so I can have a 50/50 chance of not caring about cannon balls.
110 – Mage [Lore of Fire] w:/ Ruby Ring of Ruin.
I'm torn on taking a scroll or the ring or neither. Considering I'm even points-wise with this list I'm gonna be swapping them out probably. I like the idea of using the ring then throwing another offensive spell at the same unit (I hopefully will have some dice left over because my Lord has the Book of Hoeth) benefiting from the +D3 to cast.
Core
150 – (14) Archers w:/ Musician.
-Turns out I could take the armor off and still have enough core points.
105 – (5) Ellyrion Reavers w:/ Musician and Bows Added.

105 – (5) Ellyrion Reavers w:/ Musician and Bows Added.

270 – (20) Lothern Sea Guard w:/ Full command, Shields.
-I'm gonna keep these guys. If anything I might increase the amount later. I just like having the hybrid unit supporting my 2 other blocks.
Special
435 – (24) Phoenix Guard w:/ Full Command, Razor Standard.
-Downsized them a bit. 30 Phoenix guard units might make it hard to make friends anyway haha.
444 – (28) White Lions w:/ Full Command, Banner of the World Dragon.
-I like the banner alot. They seem more formidable now and will make my opponent have to actively decide with everything he has which target is the bigger priority.
98 – (7) Shadow Warriors.
-I ended up with 98 extra points and did the math. I figured one of my list's weaknesses was my inability to reliably target war machines. Plus I LOVE the idea of these guys and their models.
Rare
50 – Giant Eagle.
-Dropped one. Makes sense. I'll always have an extra if I ever wanna try out something else.
70 – Bolt Thrower.
-Ended up taking 2 more. I think I like this style alot more then the skycutter.
70 – Bolt Thrower.

70 – Bolt Thrower.

Total: 2500
-Should be fun!


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:30 pm 
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TheKneesofRaj wrote:
I'm gonna keep the lance and Armor of Destiny build so I can have a 50/50 chance of not caring about cannon balls.

It's a solid build. The Eagle also gives the combined model Toughness 4 and 3 wounds.

TheKneesofRaj wrote:
I'm torn on taking a scroll or the ring or neither.

I would always take the Scroll, being able to stop that one spell cold is too good. I'd take it if it was 50pts and I choose it over the Book.

TheKneesofRaj wrote:
(28) White Lions w:/ Full Command, Banner of the World Dragon.
-I like the banner alot. They seem more formidable now and will make my opponent have to actively decide with everything he has which target is the bigger priority.

This unit can do great things. It needs to be wary of combats with elves (especially Wild Riders and Witch Elves) because these will re-roll to hit it. The PG are much better for these. But the Lions are a big threat to tough or well-armoured foes and will terrorise anything with Magical attacks, such as Daemons.

TheKneesofRaj wrote:
7) Shadow Warriors.
-I ended up with 98 extra points and did the math. I figured one of my list's weaknesses was my inability to reliably target war machines. Plus I LOVE the idea of these guys and their models.

A bit of a luxury pick but they should be OK and the extra shots will be useful.

The list looks pretty solid now.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 6:39 am 
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I like the list. It is definitely good enough to start with. Give it a try, play a few games and then evaluate what you like about it and what you don't. And let us know how it goes :)

Some things are just personal preference and playstyle. Taking the scroll on the second mage for instance. SpellArcher never leaves home without a scroll (if he can). Which is very sensible and probably the smart thing to do. I on the other hand sometimes feel I can get away with not bringing one. But we play very different styles of games and in a different environment altogether. So it's hard to advise you upfront about having to bring it or not. So, try a few games and evaluate. It could very well be that the ring is very valuable to you.

Typing this it did make me just realise that the Ring of Fury (from the HE book) is a decent way to increase the ward saves on models. If you have a character in a unit, the ring of fury will trigger the high magic attribute. It could work on an Annointed. He could effectively give a unit he's in a 5+ ward save this way. Never really thought about it. Could be interesting.

Rod

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Please try to remember that, no matter how 'official' the source seems, rumours are basically just a dictionary combined with a random number generator

For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 166/18/104


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