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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:37 pm 
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RE.Lee wrote:
Those Crushers are from before they were cool

In those days as I remember RE, there were no Mortal units riding Juggernauts, only Daemonic ones. So they came singly with either a Bloodletter rider or a Champion of Chaos (as per the models here).

It was just really great to see this army, so inspiring.


Game 2 - Skaven

Image

Archmage, Lvl 4 High, 4+ Ward, Dispel Scroll, Ironcurse Icon
Noble, Barded Steed, HA, Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield, Luckstone
BSB, Barded Steed, DA, Lance, Shield, World Dragon

12 Archers, FC, LA
8 Silver Helms, FC, Shields

19 Swordmasters. FC, Lichebone Pennant

3 RBT

14 Glade Guard, Musician, Banner of Eternal Flame
Frost Phoenix
Eagle


Grey Seer, 4+ Ward, Stuff
BSB, Stuff
Lvl 2 Warlock, Condenser
Lvl 1 Warlock, Dispel Scroll

30 Clanrats, FC, Warpfire Thrower
20 Clanrats, FC, Warpfire Thrower

4 Jezzails

Abomination
Warp Lightning Cannon

10 Chaos Dwarf Fireglaives
Warp Dragon

The scenario was Battle for the Pass. Thoughts on the match-up?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:00 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Abomination


The Flaming Banner is surely going to come in handy. Between it and the RBTs I can't see the A-bomb surviving too long.

The Jezzails and WFTs are easy pickings for your shooting, I think. Letting them hit your Phoenix/Swordmasters could hurt.

The Frosty and the Dragon are wild cards here, as is Skaven magic.

All in all I'd say you've got the upper hand.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:06 pm 
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RE.Lee wrote:
The Jezzails and WFTs are easy pickings for your shooting, I think. Letting them hit your Phoenix/Swordmasters could hurt.

The issue is how quickly I can kill the Abom, which frees me up to target other things. Warpfire is indeed an issue for my Infantry.

RE.Lee wrote:
All in all I'd say you've got the upper hand.

Possibly. I think it’s closer to par RE. My bus is dangerous because World Dragon renders it practically immune to most Skaven attacks. But the Swordmasters and Archmage are vulnerable, particularly to magic as you mention. In general, both sides are geared up to do a lot of damage.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:43 am 
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Also - does BSB "stuff" include the Storm Banner? Judging by the shooty character of the army - probably not. Which makes the Abomination that much vulnerable. Still, 2 rounds of shooting is what it will most likely take to bring it down. That's if you manage at least a single wound with the Glade Guards before the RBTs open fire.

My bet is the WFT blow up :lol:

The bus is crucial here, as you say. Not even 13th can get it. Does the Abomination have warpstone spikes?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:37 pm 
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RE.Lee wrote:
Also - does BSB "stuff" include the Storm Banner?

No it doesn’t, Lynsey likes her shooting. Though she did roll Warpgale.

RE.Lee wrote:
Does the Abomination have warpstone spikes?

No. The bus can handle it but only if I shoot wounds off first.


Deployment

Image

So I have Swordmasters (and Archmage) pretty central, flanked by archers and backed up by RBT on the hill. Frostheart behind the HE archers. Out of shot to the left is the Eagle, to the right the Bus, with General & BSB.

Image

Opposite my left we have Abomination then big Clanrats with Seer, BSB & WFT. Behind on a hill the Warp Lightning Cannon.

Image

The remainder. Chaos Dwarfs opposite my Archers, then Jezzails on hill. Small Clanrats and WFT, Warp Dragon. Unusually (though not for Lynsey), the Warlocks were deployed singly, way back behind a central hill.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:50 pm 
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Turn One

The Skaven won first turn and rolled forward with Seer’s unit and Abom against my left. The Chaos Dwarfs ascended the central hill, while the other Clanrats advanced into Warpfire range on my right. I didn’t fancy Plague at all so Scrolled it, while Warpgale was IF’d. The Warp Dragon’s stone thrower-style attack missed my knights. I’d been telling Lynsey how awesomely my Phoenix always performed and so of course the WLC took it out first shot!

Image

On my left, the Eagle hobbled forwards 4 inches. The Swordmasters, keen to minimise ranged damage, marched into the teeth of the enemy. The Helms advanced into charge range of the WFT, offering the Dragon a longer charge if it fancied it. Convocation was Scrolled, while shooting at -1 put two wounds on the Abom.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:26 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
I’d been telling Lynsey how awesomely my Phoenix always performed and so of course the WLC took it out first shot!

This could get painful...

No damage from the IF?

Let's hope you'll have a bit of luck along the way as well. You're going to have trouble dealing with the dragon I think. Especially with frosty off the table. Still, 2 wounds on the abomb is a good start. Especially with warpgale up.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:13 pm 
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Ouch. That Frosty was a valuable asset. Getting rid of the Abomination would level the playing field - here's to seeing it go down next turn! Hard to judge the worth of the Dragon - regular moon dragon profile? Whats the shooting attack?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:39 pm 
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Prince of Spires wrote:
No damage from the IF?

Sadly not Rod.

Prince of Spires wrote:
Let's hope you'll have a bit of luck along the way as well.

Interesting point, which I’ll return to.

Prince of Spires wrote:
Still, 2 wounds on the abomb is a good start. Especially with warpgale up.

Funnily enough I scored a lot of hits with the Wood Elves but no wounds, the RBT did the damage.

RE.Lee wrote:
Hard to judge the worth of the Dragon - regular moon dragon profile? Whats the shooting attack?

It’s actually Sun Dragon level RE. Shoots like a Magical Stone Thrower, Move or Fire I believe.


Turn Two

The Abom headed for the flank, around the Swordmasters’ charge arc. The Clanrats backed off, while the Chaos Dwarfs crested the hill. Dreaded 13th luckily failed to meet the casting value but Warpgale was IF’d again, putting a wound on each Wizard. Shooting chipped away at the Swordmasters but bounced off the 2+ Ward of the Helms.

Image

The Helms charged the WFT, the Stand and Shoot having no effect. The Swordmasters pressed on while the Eagle restricted the Abom’s charge options. Shooting, buffed by Hand of Glory, ripped through the Abomination. The Helms killed the WFT and Overran into the Jezzails (apologies for blurry photo).

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:41 am 
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Turn Three

The Dragon moved behind the engaged Helms to use it’s special ‘Aura of Death’ (or somesuch) power. This was a Strength test or lose a wound with no armour saves if within 3” and it removed some. Memory fails here slightly but some combination of shooting/magic decimated the Swordmasters, only 5 plus the Archmage remained. The Warp Lightning Cannon destroyed the central RBT, the others failing their Panic tests so were unable to shoot in my turn. The Helms destroyed the Jezzails and reformed 180 degrees to face the Dragon.

Image

The Swordmasters charged. Needing an 8 to reach the Seer’s unit, they went for the Chaos Dwarfs instead, making the 7 required. Stand and Shoot was ineffectual. The Helms charged the Dragon, who Held. The CD’s were beaten and ran but escaped the Pursuit. Similarly, the Dragon took 3 wounds and Fled, outdistancing the Helms. Owing to a somewhat compressed schedule, time was called at this point.

Image

10-10

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:59 am 
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interesting battle. Hard to tell who's ahead. So I suppose the 10-10 score is justified. :) The SM are reasonably neutralised. 5 is so little that you want to keep them out of most fights. On the other hand, you have parts of him on the run and the helms are still going strong. Should have been interesting to see who would come out ahead.

What's your feeling about the game?

Rod

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:13 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
The Dragon moved behind the engaged Helms to use it’s special ‘Aura of Death’ (or somesuch) power. This was a Strength test or lose a wound with no armour saves if within 3” and it removed some.


Whoa, that's a powerful effect!

A draw does seem to be a fair result at this point, though I'd expect you to gain the upper hand later on. Things that could damage the Silver Helms were either already out or going and the unit has the speed to mop up units. Again, the added units made this particularly amusing.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Thanks guys.

RE.Lee wrote:
Whoa, that's a powerful effect!

It is RE and Lynsey wisely used it against my knights. But the model is 300 pts for a Sun Dragon’s profile.

Prince of Spires wrote:
What's your feeling about the game?

Basically Rod, that it was always going to be a bit random and dice-dependent and as mentioned, pretty even.

Here are a couple of other armies from the event:

Image

This was Tom’s Empire cav force. I believe he actually scored highest on game TP’s but not once Secret Missions were factored in.

Image

Part of Nikki’s Wood Elves. She won Best Allied Unit for her Ogres and the sheer quality of her painting can be seen over at:

http://eewl.freeforums.net/

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Game Three - The Grind

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Prince, Barded Steed, HA, Giant Blade, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone
Archmage, High Magic, 4+ Ward, Ironcurse Icon
BSB, Barded Steed, Lance, DA, Shield, World Dragon
Mage, Lvl 2, High Magic, Dispel Scroll, MR 1

8 Silver Helms, Shields, Standard, Musician
29 Spears. FC, Gleaming Pennant
10 Archers, Musician

20 Swordmasters, FC, Lichebone Pennant
Tiranoc Chariot

3 RBT

14 Glade Guard, Musician, Eternal Flame
Frost Phoenix
Eagle


Lord Kroak
Scar Vet, Cold One, Great Weapon, 4+ Ward Armour
Scar Vet, Cold One, Great Weapon, 5+ Ward Armour
Tetto’Eko

10 Skink Cohort, Poison, Musician x 6

26 Temple Guard, FC

15 Saurus Warriors, Spears, FC
Frost Phoenix

Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:27 pm 
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Ha! Thats a magic heavy Lizardmen list, right there!

Kroak is a serious caster and his AoE spell can really hurt you, especially when he can just walk around in his unbreakable TG bodyguard unit. I suspect its going to boil down to a Temple Guards vs Silver Helm Bus grind - whoever can support themselves better will win the battle.

Also, Tetto-eko is a fun (?) opponent - I'm looking forward to seeing a vanguarding Frost Phoenix.

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Last edited by RE.Lee on Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:06 am 
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I actually think the 60 skinks are going to hurt the most. The rest of the army you can deal with. But 60 skinks is a lot of support to get through before you get to anything meaningful. And meanwhile they will be delivering those poison shots. Which will hurt. Neither Frosty nor the SM like them.

If you manage to deal with the skins in time and don't take too much damage from them you have a good chance. If not then you're in for a world of hurt.

Rod

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:40 pm 
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Prince of Spires wrote:
I actually think the 60 skinks are going to hurt the most. The rest of the army you can deal with. But 60 skinks is a lot of support to get through before you get to anything meaningful. And meanwhile they will be delivering those poison shots. Which will hurt. Neither Frosty nor the SM like them.

The key thing here Rod is that these are Cohorts and not Skirmishers. So no double-tap, no March and Shoot. They are a little more solid though (5+ AS and Parry) and the Poison remains an issue. As it happens my opponent’s tactics kind of relegated them to a secondary threat.

RE.Lee wrote:
Kroak is a serious caster and his AoE spell can really hurt you, especially when he can just walk around in his unbreakable TG bodyguard unit.

You’re not wrong RE.

RE.Lee wrote:
Also, Tetto-eko is a fun (?) opponent - I'm looking forward to seeing a vanguarding Frost Phoenix.

This was something I failed to take into account.

In general I feel this is par or maybe -1. The Lizardman list is solid and focused and Tetto in particular is a game-changer. I remember tournaments with 6 or more armies all bringing him. It does lack a Scroll though and has nothing that can match the Prince in combat, so not all gloom and doom.


Deployment

I should mention that the scenario was Battle Line.

My opponent had two units of Skinks opposite my left. Centre-left were the Temple Guard with Lord Kroak and one Scar Vet. Next three more units of Skinks (one with Tetto), the other Scar Vet and the Frostheart. Last Skinks across from my right.

I had RBT spaced fairly evenly along my baseline. Archers on my left, then Swordmasters (with Archmage) and Spears opposite the Temple Guard. In the centre, Eagle and Frostheart. Centre-right the Glade Guard (with Mage), then Helm Bus and Chariot.

Lord Kroak of course had The Deliverance of Itza while Tetto rolled Comet and Chain Lightning. The Archmage had Convocation, Unforging and Soul Quench, an unwise combo in retrospect. The Mage had Hand of Glory and I think Soul Quench.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:43 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Tetto rolled Comet and Chain Lightning


I believe Tetto'eko is a loremaster of the Lore of Heavens. One of the key things that make him so dangerous!

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Last edited by RE.Lee on Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:40 pm 
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RE.Lee wrote:
I believe Tetto'eko is a loremaster of the Lore of Heavens. One of the key things that make his so dangerous!

#-o

That was a let-off! In Lee’s (my opponent’s) defence, he’s a High Elf player really!


Turn One

I had a vague idea that Tetto permitted the redeploying of units but was shocked when D3 of these Vanguarded 12” forwards, including the Kroakstar! This was compounded by Lee winning the roll-off and marching the damn thing right up to my Infantry. He advanced pretty much across the board. Kroak, close to several of my units, got a small TDOI through, killing a few models. Not much shooting due to range issues.

The Kroakstar was too close to redirect (Overrun issues) so I hit it with everything I had. Swords and Spears easily made it into the front and crucially (after we checked the arc with a template) my Phoenix hit the flank. I’d had to charge my Eagle into Skinks (he was blocking my Infantry) but Stand and Shoot killed him. The Archers moved onto the left hill and the Glade Guard into the central building. Helms offered the facing Scar Vet and Frostheart a charge while the Chariot worked it’s way around the right building. Now I rued taking big spells on the Archmage because I couldn’t spam to generate Shield of Saphery. Instead Hand went up on the Glade Guard. My shooting removed a central unit of Skinks and weakened one on my left.

Image

My Swordmaster Champion was cut down by the Scar Vet in a Challenge but at least this kept my numbers up. Regardless, loads of Infantry on both sides bit the dust. I won but the Star was Unbreakable.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:04 pm 
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Oh my. Meeting the Swordmaster before they've been decimated by some shooting/magic was not the best idea. Both Scar-Vet Cowboys are with the Temple Guards? They should help with the grind, though the situation is far from ideal, especially with the SH Bus nearby. No choice but to get their own Frostie there.

Still, a pickle.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:52 am 
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I do think you ran into the issue with High Magic. It isn't as useful once you hit combat as some of the other lores. And now you managed to hit combat T1, which left little opportunity to make the most of its strong points.

D3 units vanguarding into your line is painful. It really throws any plans you had out of the window. Still, one can wonder if marching straight into 20 untouched swordmasters is the wisest of choices. Especially if you have dominance in all other area's After all, he had both superior magic and shooting I think. I personally would have used that to weaken you before committing to any combat.

But it's an interesting battle. It could very well be decided by the end of T2. It probably depends on who gets support into the Kroak fight first (or best). You have the cavalry bus and the chariot left as support. He has Saurus warriors (though they seem nowhere near the action) and a frosty. At the moment my money is on you, though it does depend on exactly how many models went down on each side.

Rod

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:34 pm 
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RE.Lee wrote:
Both Scar-Vet Cowboys are with the Temple Guards?

Just one RE, the other is opposite the Helm Bus. Characters like this are one reason players take S6 Lions instead of S5 Swordmasters.

RE.Lee wrote:
No choice but to get their own Frostie there.

Lee was considering this but he would have taken until Turn 3 to get in and the Helms were looming.

Prince of Spires wrote:
I do think you ran into the issue with High Magic. It isn't as useful once you hit combat as some of the other lores. And now you managed to hit combat T1, which left little opportunity to make the most of its strong points.

I am falling out of love with the Lore Rod. But here the issue was simply bad spell selection. I should have seen the Kroakstar’s Vanguard coming and chosen Augments on the Archmage.

Prince of Spires wrote:
After all, he had both superior magic and shooting I think.

Magic maybe but as said, no scroll. At first I have shooting advantage due to range. If the Skinks can close rapidly that reverses but I have charge threats to complicate this.

Prince of Spires wrote:
it could very well be decided by the end of T2.

Quite prophetic. If I didn’t have the Frostheart in there I’d be toast because the Kroakstar grinds pretty well. But I do.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:08 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Magic maybe but as said, no scroll. At first I have shooting advantage due to range. If the Skinks can close rapidly that reverses but I have charge threats to complicate this.

Scroll could be an issue, definitely. But he could have vanguarded the Skinks instead of the kroakstar. Which would have negated your range advantage and put pressure on you early on without overcommitting. The current approach was an all or nothing push I think. Which could work out, but it could also backfire. One bad round of rolling and it's good game

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:52 pm 
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Prince of Spires wrote:
But he could have vanguarded the Skinks instead of the kroakstar. Which would have negated your range advantage and put pressure on you early on without overcommitting.

Definitely a valid alternative strategy Rod.

Prince of Spires wrote:
The current approach was an all or nothing push I think. Which could work out, but it could also backfire. One bad round of rolling and it's good game

Lee was not a restrained player.

:)


Turn Two

Confident in his Scar Vet, Lee charged the bus, which of course held. He pretty much knew I had World Dragon but wanted to help his guy out, so threw the Phoenix in too. I held again. Skinks and Saurus closed in the centre, more Skinks enveloping my Archers on the left. TDOI killed more elves, while shooting removed some archers. The Prince put a wound on the Scar Vet in a Challenge but both he and the Frostheart passed their Break tests:

Image

Lots more Swordmasters and Temple Guard died, the grind continuing:

Image

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:21 pm 
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An epic grind, indeed. Thats 5 wounds left or dealt on your Frostie?

Your opponent smashing his Phoenix into the Bus made some sense - it helps the Cowboy hold on a bit longer and that's exactly what he needs right now.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:09 pm 
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RE.Lee wrote:
An epic grind, indeed. Thats 5 wounds left or dealt on your Frostie?

It's actually for the Attuned to Magic table RE. I forget otherwise!


RE.Lee wrote:
Your opponent smashing his Phoenix into the Bus made some sense - it helps the Cowboy hold on a bit longer and that's exactly what he needs right now.

I guess Lee had to really, else the Scar Vet is going down fast to S7 ASF. I was pretty happy though, static res wins every combat round and with no BSB the Phoenix will break at some point.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:56 am 
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eager to see how it will turn out. Delaying your bus was really the only option your opponent had here. And your SM + spearmen unit is getting quite thin, so it could be working. On the other hand, is your opponent not throwing too many points under the bus. In the end, he could win the big grind and still lose the game by having nothing else left.

Rod

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:32 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
It's actually for the Attuned to Magic table RE. I forget otherwise!


I forget all the time :lol: Such an, unnecessary quirky rule #-o

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:39 pm 
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Prince of Spires wrote:
Delaying your bus was really the only option your opponent had here.

I wonder whether he could have sacrificed some Skinks Rod. I think he underestimated the Prince though.

RE.Lee wrote:
I forget all the time Such an, unnecessary quirky rule

Add to Fear tests, March tests and various others routinely forgotten by 8th Edition players RE! Here though, Lee’s girlfriend kept reminding us when these were due.


Hand went up again on the Glade Guard. Shooting killed more Skinks in the centre and on the left, where a sole survivor Fled before being shot down. The Prince ended the Challenge by killing the Scar Vet but the Frostheart got a wound past the Helms’ 2+ Ward and passed his Break test again.

Image

The Swordmasters were wiped out, causing the nearby Archers to Flee. But the Phoenix Thunderstomped a lot of Temple Guard and the deadlock continued.

Image

Time was then called.

10 - 10

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:49 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Frostheart got a wound past the Helms’ 2+ Ward


One forgets this is even possible sometimes but 16,6% is still a decent chance!

Again, pity for the battle ending before it was due - you had an upper hand it that grind.

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