Cavalry Prince Reloaded

SpellArcher · **Posted:** Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:55 am

With thanks to The Matrix, RE.Lee and Seredain:

viewtopic.php?f=76&t=33584

So this is a new blog, in which I will document the comprehensive revamp of my High Elf army and it's progress on the field. I'll begin with a draft 2500pt list. I'm unsure about the details but the broad sweep is clear:

Prince, Barded Steed, Shield, Giant Blade, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Ironcurse.
BSB, Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Shield, World Dragon.
Archmage, Lvl4 High Magic, 4+ Ward, Book of Hoeth
Mage, Lvl 2 High Magic, Dispel Scroll

25 Spears, FC, Standard of Discipline
11 Archers, LA, FC
8 Silver Helms, Std, Musician

20 Swordmasters, FC, Razor Standard
5 Dragon Princes, Eternal Flame, Musician

2 Great Eagles
2 RBT
Frost Phoenix

Comments welcome...

RE.Lee · **Posted:** Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:26 pm

Love the classic approach! =D>

I think the SH unit is smallish at this point level. I know its pretty much a delivery system for the characters, but adding 5 guys would really increase their effectiveness. I'd probably just drop the archers (changing the spearmen into archers is an option, too).

The Frostheart works great with cavalry units in general, its a shame I could never make it work for me (just too many Dwarf cannons around). If you manage to put it into the same combat as the SH you can pretty much grind through anything. I should work well in a tag-team with the Dragon Princes ans Eagles, setting up charges and all.

Swordmasters are my least favourite elite infantry, but they add another high-priority target for enemy shooting, so could work well here. All those S5 attacks are scary, even more so with the Razor Banner.

Where do the wizards go? An wouldn't the Level 4 benefit more from a MR3 than a 4+ save (which I understand is mostly to protect against snipes)?

SpellArcher · **Posted:** Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:21 pm

RE.Lee wrote:

Love the classic approach!

Thanks dude!

RE.Lee wrote:

I think the SH unit is smallish at this point level. I know its pretty much a delivery system for the characters, but adding 5 guys would really increase their effectiveness. I'd probably just drop the archers (changing the spearmen into archers is an option, too).

A good point. It's about a lack of cavalry models really. I might just be able to scavenge a couple more but I'll test the 8 first. That's why World Dragon is on the BSB, to increase the survivability of this unit. Ironcurse could be helpful against non-magical stuff like bolt shooters. The Spears are there because I love the models and I don't have many Archers! Those I do have are again quite pleasing to me and the list is short on shooting. I could just add RBT but my first modelling project (and it's a considerable one) has to be the cavalry bus.

RE.Lee wrote:

The Frostheart works great with cavalry units in general, its a shame I could never make it work for me (just too many Dwarf cannons around). If you manage to put it into the same combat as the SH you can pretty much grind through anything. I should work well in a tag-team with the Dragon Princes ans Eagles, setting up charges and all.

I took mine to a tournament last year and was mightily impressed. Along with World Dragon, it was what won the games. Yes, it did simply die vs Dwarfs but get it into something and start grinding and it was awesome. Part of it's job here is to attract cannonballs so the small bus gets less shot up.

RE.Lee wrote:

Swordmasters are my least favourite elite infantry, but they add another high-priority target for enemy shooting, so could work well here. All those S5 attacks are scary, even more so with the Razor Banner.

Where do the wizards go? An wouldn't the Level 4 benefit more from a MR3 than a 4+ save (which I understand is mostly to protect against snipes)?

This unit with World Dragon was a terror at the aforementioned tournament. How well it will work without I'm not sure. Razor is a nice consolation as straight S5 is not always enough against 1+ armour saves. The Archmage sits in it. He is very likely to get at least one High Magic spell off per turn, improving his Ward to 3++, which with 3 wounds should be sufficient protection vs most things. He has Book of Hoeth to improve his chances of getting more spells off, hopefully boosting the Shield effect on the unit.

The Mage is necessary because Book precludes Scroll on the AM. But he also brings fuller coverage of High Magic. The Archers are a nice little bunker for him. Against really shooty opponents he might need to go in the Swordmasters or the Spears.

Chracian · **Joined:** Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:41 am **Posts:** 666

Nice to see this approach again! Not much more I can add except to bulk up the silver helms.

Have you considered putting the arch mage on a horse and joining the cavalry? I seem to remember it was a favourite of curu's and I'm sure I managed decent placements. This was a while ago mind! Could you proxy dragon princes as silver helms for now?

SpellArcher · **Posted:** Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:53 pm

Chracian wrote:

Nice to see this approach again!

Thank you!

Chracian wrote:

Have you considered putting the arch mage on a horse and joining the cavalry?

The issue I have with this is the same as running a really big bus (say 16-18 Helms). It puts all your eggs in one basket. I can't deny it's effective, though it needs to watch out for Dwellers etc.. I mean to stick to a Combined Arms list, so I'll see how the smaller bus plus support goes for now. A compromise I quite like is around 12 Helms plus a Mage in the unit to provide Shield of Saphery and perhaps Magic Resistance or something. Getting the models would be very tricky though.

Chracian wrote:

Could you proxy dragon princes as silver helms for now?

My DP's and Helms differ greatly and I'm too much of a purist Chracian!

Rob9 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:40 pm

Great list, its definitely right up my alley. Should be great fun to play and if you can get the most out of your units it should be a rewarding list as well. Look forward to seeing it in action.

Prince of Spires · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:57 am

Nothing really wrong with the list, though it does read like a first iteration that needs to be tested and fine-tuned a bit. It's more or less what many HE players would write down when asked to create a cav-prince list at 2500pts I think. Not bad, but I think there's room for improvement. Needs to be tested a bit here and there

I am curious if you're playing 25% or 50% lords?

I would personally drop the spears and change them into a unit of reavers and put the rest into archers (or more SH, I agree with the others that 8 is the bare minimum for a bus unit, but I'll work on the premisse that that's not an option). There is little that separates spears and archers in terms of fighting power, but the archers at least can shoot. Also, 11 archers and 2 RBT isn't a very impressive shooting phase.

Which brings me to the next point. Taking a unit of reavers in core lets you drop an eagle. I haven't added up the points (too lazy on a monday morning...). But this should enable you to bring a third RBT by shuffling stuff around a bit. 3 RBT and 25-ish archers will actually manage to do stuff in the shooting phase and should keep some stuff honest (lone characters, cavalry busses and the like).

I like the idea of the razor standard on the SM. I might just steal that idea for a next battle

I have had great succes with it on PG, who have a higher hit rate then SM, so I'm sure S5 AP will yield great results against most things except 2+ or higher AS stuff. 5 DP are a great support unit. Fast, 10 S5 attacks, high AS, what's not to like.

There is one worry in the list and that is High armour save units. You don't go higher then S5 except on the prince. Armour can ruin your day. Or at least make your play predictable. And magic doesn't add much to help you there. High magic is nice in this type of list. But once you get to combat, there is little you can do to fight more effectively. Would you consider metal on the lvl 2? You could then even drop him to a lvl 1 (if you're just after the signature), which incidentally gets you the points for the RBT I mentioned earlier.

Rod

SpellArcher · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:46 pm

Rob9 wrote:

Great list, its definitely right up my alley. Should be great fun to play and if you can get the most out of your units it should be a rewarding list as well. Look forward to seeing it in action.

Cheers Rob! I'm hoping to play an event next month. I'll need the time to get the cavalry sorted!

Prince of Spires wrote:

Nothing really wrong with the list, though it does read like a first iteration that needs to be tested and fine-tuned a bit.

It's all about the models Rod. I have very concrete changes in mind but they require painting and modelling time. The idea is to start with something functional.

Prince of Spires wrote:

I am curious if you're playing 25% or 50% lords?

Likely 25% most of the time but I'm not that inclined to use the extra allowances even if they're available. Things might change with experience though.

Prince of Spires wrote:

I would personally drop the spears and change them into a unit of reavers and put the rest into archers (or more SH, I agree with the others that 8 is the bare minimum for a bus unit, but I'll work on the premisse that that's not an option). There is little that separates spears and archers in terms

Again, it's mostly about models. I have quite a few Spears, few Archers. I agree the latter are very likely a better pick. But I'm curious to see how the former go. My experience with the same unit in a worse list is that they are reasonable points denial and as a stop-gap bunker but not great offensively. The cavalry bus though may change this. My Reaver models I need to convert into Silver Helms!

Prince of Spires wrote:

Which brings me to the next point. Taking a unit of reavers in core lets you drop an eagle. I haven't added up the points (too lazy on a monday morning...). But this should enable you to bring a third RBT by shuffling stuff around a bit. 3 RBT and 25-ish archers will actually manage to do stuff in the shooting phase and should keep some stuff honest (lone characters, cavalry busses and the like).

A good point. 11 Archers and 2 RBT is really stretching things. I think I can get away with it because of my strong magic phase but I agree the third RBT is a very good idea, I've just bought one before they discontinue the model! As with other changes though, it will have to wait until I've done the bus. Even with the third machine it's hardly a fearsome phase but that would be enough to do a solid job for the list.

Prince of Spires wrote:

There is one worry in the list and that is High armour save units. You don't go higher then S5 except on the prince. Armour can ruin your day. Or at least make your play predictable. And magic doesn't add much to help you there. High magic is nice in this type of list. But once you get to combat, there is little you can do to fight more effectively. Would you consider metal on the lvl 2? You could then even drop him to a lvl 1 (if you're just after the signature), which incidentally gets you the points for the RBT I mentioned earlier.

Ideally I want to drop the Mage! But yes, Metal could be worth a look. Not having S6 grinding attacks on the BSB is a real concern. Razor Standard helps and the Frostheart is S6. I'll see how it goes.

RE.Lee · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:32 pm

After trying out spears in units of 25 for several years, I've found that you need more. A unit of 35-40 can remain steadfast for long enough for you to get a nice buff on them, and they only really need one round of 20 ASF attacks with Mindrazor, Wildform or something like that to leave a lasting impression on the opposition. We also have a house rules that gives spears AP, so that changes things a lot...

Picking the lore is always tricky, I've never had a good experience with High Magic. I'll give it another try what Belannaer reaches 9 Daemons, I guess :wink:

Prince of Spires · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:00 am

Some random remarks

RE.Lee wrote:

After trying out spears in units of 25 for several years, I've found that you need more. A unit of 35-40 can remain steadfast for long enough for you to get a nice buff on them, and they only really need one round of 20 ASF attacks with Mindrazor, Wildform or something like that to leave a lasting impression on the opposition.

That's the problem with High Magic though. There are no buffs in it that help spears (combat wise at least). Just having Wildform lying around and a unit of 25 (or more) spears places a potentially serious threat on the battlefield. As it stands though, most even slightly elite units can simply ignore them until more serious threats are dealt with. Unless you're fighting skaven or other T3, no armour units they don't do much.

Available models is a good reason for certain choices. You can't play with what you don't have after all.

The reason 3 RBT is much better then 2 is reliability. Single bolts from a RBT fail about half the time. Which means that with 2 there is still a good chance of non of them hitting. With 3, less so. And is you go for the 6 bolts (pretty much the default), again you're more likely to move towards average simply because you roll 50% more dice. It's the difference for your opponent between leaving that single (character) model visible or not. And, if you get lucky and hit above average you simply move on to the next target. When you're failing to hit anything there's still more bolts.

The other reason why I think 3 works better is that it lets you cover more ground / lanes of fire. And it requires some very dedicated hunting for your opponent to take them out.

SpellArcher wrote:

Likely 25% most of the time but I'm not that inclined to use the extra allowances even if they're available

I actually do the same thing. I dislike playing 50%, because it unbalances lists but also because it's kind of fun to have to work inside limitations. It challenges you to be better and more creative. But also because in general it leads to more balanced lists that are better equipped to deal with all-commers.

As for the mage, what would you go for with those points if you dropped him? Or if you dropped him to a lvl 1? It's 140 odd points. That's 2 RBT, a lion chariot, 10 WL, more DP's or half a frostheart for example. I think by shaving some points here and there you could even up those 10 WL to 15 (though I haven't done up the points, so I'm not sure where you are %-wise in core). But drop the banner from the DP's, the champ from the SM, the LA and command from the archers and you're about there I think. 15 WL really changes the list around. Both offensively, but also because you lose the scroll. Which is always a tough call. In principle, a lvl 4 with the book is decent defence. But it does mean that you can't stop that one specific spell.

Rod

SpellArcher · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:32 pm

Thanks guys.

RE.Lee wrote:

After trying out spears in units of 25 for several years, I've found that you need more. A unit of 35-40 can remain steadfast for long enough for you to get a nice buff on them, and they only really need one round of 20 ASF attacks with Mindrazor, Wildform or something like that to leave a lasting impression on the opposition. We also have a house rules that gives spears AP, so that changes things a lot...

My experience RE is that you can just about get away with 25 but more is better. It depends on the rest of the list of course. I've run Eternal Guard a lot too and while Wildform and AP help, they still can't function as a real grinding unit like High Elf elites. Mindrazor is a different kettle of fish.

Prince of Spires wrote:

That's the problem with High Magic though. There are no buffs in it that help spears (combat wise at least). Just having Wildform lying around and a unit of 25 (or more) spears places a potentially serious threat on the battlefield. As it stands though, most even slightly elite units can simply ignore them until more serious threats are dealt with. Unless you're fighting skaven or other T3, no armour units they don't do much.

Again Rod, I don't see the Spears primarily as a damage unit. Their main job is to bring and break Steadfast. If I want them to destroy an enemy that will likely be in combination with another of my units. High Magic helps the army a lot in other ways, which I feel are more important.

Prince of Spires wrote:

The reason 3 RBT is much better then 2 is reliability. Single bolts from a RBT fail about half the time. Which means that with 2 there is still a good chance of non of them hitting. With 3, less so. And is you go for the 6 bolts (pretty much the default), again you're more likely to move towards average simply because you roll 50% more dice. It's the difference for your opponent between leaving that single (character) model visible or not. And, if you get lucky and hit above average you simply move on to the next target. When you're failing to hit anything there's still more bolts.

As Curu once pointed out, a Daemon Prince cares a lot more about 4 RBT than he does about 2.

Prince of Spires wrote:

As for the mage, what would you go for with those points if you dropped him? Or if you dropped him to a lvl 1? It's 140 odd points. That's 2 RBT, a lion chariot, 10 WL, more DP's or half a frostheart for example. I think by shaving some points here and there you could even up those 10 WL to 15 (though I haven't done up the points, so I'm not sure where you are %-wise in core). But drop the banner from the DP's, the champ from the SM, the LA and command from the archers and you're about there I think. 15 WL really changes the list around. Both offensively, but also because you lose the scroll. Which is always a tough call. In principle, a lvl 4 with the book is decent defence. But it does mean that you can't stop that one specific spell.

Definitely the 3rd RBT. I don't trust Lions in less than a 20 (barring full-on MSU) they are just too fragile IMHO. If lacking the Mage I would drop the Book in favour of Scroll on the AM. Though that would leave the Swordmasters a bit vulnerable.

SpellArcher · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:23 pm

Well Christmas is gone and with it my excuse for not getting moving! Here's a bit of a mock-up of how the bus is going to be:

I've done a little work since and things are shaping up slightly differently but in the same ballpark. The problem is the lack of a firm tournament deadline to motivate me! Still, there's a little movement there, see the last post here:

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=69855

RE.Lee · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:55 am

Looking good - quite old-school! I like the banner and shields in particular. Perhaps this time its not too late to add some more stuff to the bases? :wink:

Prince of Spires · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:39 am

Starting to shape up nicely. I really like the banner. Both the freehand on it, but also the banner top are great.

Looking forward to more posts. And yeah, having a deadline like a tournament helps getting things moving.

Rod

SpellArcher · **Posted:** Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:48 pm

RE.Lee wrote:

Looking good - quite old-school! I like the banner and shields in particular. Perhaps this time its not too late to add some more stuff to the bases?

Thanks RE. The shields will be slightly different in the end but not much. We can revisit the basing debate when I've got the basics done!

Prince of Spires wrote:

Starting to shape up nicely. I really like the banner. Both the freehand on it, but also the banner top are great.

Thanks Rod. I had it already and felt it was really an integral part of the army.

Prince of Spires wrote:

Looking forward to more posts. And yeah, having a deadline like a tournament helps getting things moving.

I've made a little progress the last couple of nights.

Chracian · **Joined:** Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:41 am **Posts:** 666

I know you said old school SA, I didn't realise you meant that old school!

Looking good though. Any chance of a close up of your prince (I'm assuming that's who he is - middle front row).

Lovely free hand on the banner.

SpellArcher · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:36 pm

Chracian wrote:

I know you said old school SA, I didn't realise you meant that old school!

Chracian wrote:

Looking good though. Any chance of a close up of your prince (I'm assuming that's who he is - middle front row).

Thanks dude! I'm actually using a different model now. Less imposing but a better fit with the unit and army. I'll get a shot up when a bit further along with him. In the meantime here's the BSB I posted on this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70044

Chracian wrote:

Lovely free hand on the banner.

Very kind. I copied it from either the 5th or 6th edition army book, can't quite remember which! I find stylised freehand fairly forgiving.

SpellArcher · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:21 pm

I recently finished the actual shields for the Silver Helms:

Unit itself is coming along...

RE.Lee · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:00 am

Nice! They've got that historical feel to them.

SpellArcher · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:32 pm

Thanks RE.

A bit Roman I feel. They are of course more Rohan shields from LOTR.

Chracian · **Joined:** Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:41 am **Posts:** 666

Definitely a bit Roman, even though they are better remembered for the round or rectangular shields, although the correct terms escape me at the moment!

I first thought of Norman shields, thought that might be the angle (if I turn my tablet round it autorotates and I can't stop it), or maybe the colours?

Nice work though, looking forward to more!

SpellArcher · **Posted:** Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:09 pm

Chracian wrote:

Definitely a bit Roman, even though they are better remembered for the round or rectangular shields, although the correct terms escape me at the moment!

These would be the 'semi-cylindrical' ones? Indeed very well known, probably because they appear on Trajan's Column at what some would consider the high point of the Empire. Ironic because Legionaries carried oval shields for hundreds of years. Some cavalry carried nice hexagonal shields at this time, possibly of German origin.

Chracian wrote:

I first thought of Norman shields, thought that might be the angle (if I turn my tablet round it autorotates and I can't stop it), or maybe the colours?

Well they are a little pointed, so I can see that might have something in common with kite shields.

Chracian wrote:

Nice work though, looking forward to more!

Thanks very much. Here you go:

RE.Lee · **Posted:** Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:40 pm

Looks good. What is the rider to the far right carrying?

Chracian · **Joined:** Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:41 am **Posts:** 666

That is a nice unit!

A couple of painting/modelling questions from someone who isn't very good.

What do you base the horses on? Actual horses or warhammer painted models?

Also, highlights or dry brush?

SpellArcher · **Posted:** Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:44 pm

RE.Lee wrote:

Looks good. What is the rider to the far right carrying?

Thanks dude! It's a horn, one that looks like an animal, Gallic-style.

Chracian wrote:

That is a nice unit!

A couple of painting/modelling questions from someone who isn't very good.

Cheers! I'm a pretty average painter but I try to play to my strengths, which are detail and colour scheme. Though I can be too conservative with the latter.

Chracian wrote:

What do you base the horses on? Actual horses or warhammer painted models?

They're not that realistic to be honest, though I have some slight colour variation. I do put in things like white feet and 'socks' because a lot of horses have these. Authenticity takes a back seat to what's workable though.

Chracian wrote:

Also, highlights or dry brush?

I use a lot of blacklining which gives strong and often sufficient definition if the model has a lot of detail. Which these largely do, thank you Jes Goodwin! On larger areas though I'll usually highlight. I'll drybrush things like fur and hair if I think it's called for.

SpellArcher · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:17 pm

Champions of Destiny 2

So next month I'll be returning to Northampton for the reprise of last year's event, as reported on here:

http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php? ... &start=180

This year's event details here:

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic ... 3&t=136151

Essentially, it's an uncomped one-day event of three games, all Battle Line. 25% Lords, 25% Heroes, no End Times. First game is at 1000pts, the second 1500 and the third 2000. The twist is that each game you get to add an Allied Core unit of up to 200pts and a Monster of up to 300pts. My Monster choice is easy, Frost Phoenix, done!

If I wished I could take 200pts of High Elves as my Allied Core unit but I then wouldn't have the models for 500pts of Core in the 2000 game. So I'm choosing some Wood Elves:

14 Glade Guard, Musician, Banner of Eternal Flame

I'm not sure yet about the smaller lists but here's what I'm thinking for my 2000pts:

Prince, Barded Steed, HA, Giant Blade, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone
Archmage, High Magic, 4+ Ward, Ironcurse Icon
BSB, Barded Steed, Lance, DA, Shield, World Dragon
Mage, Lvl 2, High Magic, Dispel Scroll, MR 1

8 Silver Helms, Shields, Standard, Musician
29 Spears. FC, Gleaming Pennant

20 Swordmasters, FC, Lichebone Pennant
Tiranoc Chariot

3 RBT
2 Eagles

Thoughts welcome...

RE.Lee · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:36 pm

I think the Glade Guards are an excellent choice - I've come to respect them immensely after a couple of battles against the Wood Elves. Flaming makes them very useful, while there's not that many Abominations around these days, Chimeras really dislike losing their regeneration.

The rest of the list is solid, very much what I'd take. I can never make High Magic work so I'd pick something else probably but thats just personal taste I guess :wink:

I'm not a fan of Tiranoc Chariots, too - is yours supporting the cavalry or the spearmen?

SpellArcher · **Posted:** Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:06 pm

Thanks RE.

RE.Lee wrote:

I think the Glade Guards are an excellent choice - I've come to respect them immensely after a couple of battles against the Wood Elves. Flaming makes them very useful, while there's not that many Abominations around these days, Chimeras really dislike losing their regeneration.

Yes, they're a solid unit. While slightly pricier than HE archers they come with Armour Piercing and lots of options. Because I chose not to go with Enchanted Arrows I'm slightly concerned about Hexwraith-spam. But I expect half the field to be Wood Elves/Skaven/Dwarfs which renders that a risky build. Moderate Ethereals I can handle with double High Mage and of course the Bus. Eschewing magic arrows gives me bodies, generally useful and I intend to bunker my Mage there.

I'm almost certain one player will bring double Abom and yes Chimaeras are about the best reason to bring Flaming shooting. Plus Plaguebearers, Trolls, Crypt Horrors etc.. It really makes my RBT much better against these targets. Flaming Core shooting was a big loss from the old HE book. 14 is also enough to really benefit from Hand of Glory.

RE.Lee wrote:

I can never make High Magic work so I'd pick something else probably but thats just personal taste I guess

It's really important to make good use of the Attribute, hence the Archmage runs with the Swordmasters. With Deflect Shots, Ironcurse, MR 1 and Shield of Saphery I expect them to have a near-permanent 5++ vs ranged attacks. The Mage gives me excellent chances of Convocation and Unforging, one of which is a killer against virtually any enemy. Plus he carries the Scroll of course. I can also double up on Soul Quench (I expect elves).

RE.Lee wrote:

I'm not a fan of Tiranoc Chariots, too - is yours supporting the cavalry or the spearmen?

I've never used one without a character in! It's just a general combat utility pick and an extra drop. I had 70pts and didn't fancy the 4th RBT. 3 plus the Glade Guard ticks my shooting box.

RE.Lee · **Posted:** Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:45 pm

Perhaps a High Magic tailored list, some day :wink:

Extra drops are nice, though I've recently started thinking about limiting mine to increase the chances of getting the first turn. Those gunlines! Hopefully the chariot will serve you well, they used to be one of favourites back in 5/6th ed

Elithmar · **Joined:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:41 pm **Posts:** 3640

Look on the bright side, if you go second, you get the last turn.

If I was taking glade guard I wouldn't be able to resist the enchanted arrows, but you've gone for the sensible option.

I'd actually forgotten high elf archers couldn't take banners.

Ulthuan

Cavalry Prince Reloaded

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