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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:41 pm 
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Prince of Spires wrote:
Any thoughts?

I was expecting far better performance from his archer unit.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:28 am 
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Me too. The Tomb Kings needed make that unit count.

Prince of Spires wrote:
Which makes tea a much better choice then more alcoholic drinks. At least, I usually think so early mornings...

QFT. One does not casually drink with baby duties.

:)

I agree about the Horsemen, 2 x 5 seems better, though I'm not sure if they make the strongest TK lists. Using your scroll made sense Rod because you were getting into the Hierophant fairly quickly. I believe you only resolve the Phoenix bonus from the Winds roll in the HE phase and it then applies until the next HE phase but I could be wrong. Shooting the PG looked like an error. Either go for the Reavers to save the Casket or weaken the faster Phoenix, I'd have said. Wasting the second TK magic phase was not pretty and obviously neither was Cascading, though the Hierophant looked doomed by that stage. Redirectors are really good, so long as not too many flyers are about. Keith Bonneau (formerly of this forum) once made the point that the best Daemon counter to World Dragon was enough disposable units and I wish I had more.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:03 am 
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Yes, the shooting unit didn't perform at its best for various reasons. As mentioned, the table was smaller then a regular table should be. The benefits an aggressive list facing a shooting list massively. It's the difference between a T2 charge and a T3-4 charge. Those extra 1-2 turns of shooting can really hurt.

Besides getting an early charge, it also allowed me to be more aggressive with the scroll. Knowing a T2 charge was an option meant there was no reason to consider saving the scroll for a later turn. If you know there are more turns coming in which you have to face magic can make you more conservative. Now it was still a gamble (my opponent could have gotten a big phase T2), but a calculated one that felt comfortable.

My opponent also made a few mistakes. Deployment was one of them. Had my opponent decided to put both the casket and the archer unit in a corner on the board edge then I would have had a lot more trouble getting to both of them. It would have also offered him more opportunities to maneuver his own units into favorable positions.

This also led to the shuffle backwards for the archer unit, which meant for the first turn shooting the amount of shots was halved (roughly). Which made the shooting phase a lot less painful.

Lastly I think the archer unit was too small. 45 archers, meant 32 shots, which is 16 hits, of which 3 are poisoned (being generous) and the rest cause 6 wounds on T3 models or 2 on T6 models, before armour and ward saves. That's 6 wounds on spearmen, 3 on PG or 2 on a phoenix (with a 4+ ward). Nice, but nothing to worry about too much. 60 archers, with 39 shots, makes it already slightly more worrying, especially with the higher chance for poisonous hits. More so when combined with a screaming skull catapult (or two).

This by the way also shows why I generally dislike BS shooting. 45 archers in a best case scenario cause 6 wounds isn't really worth the effort. But, if my opponent would have gotten 2 more turns of shooting out of the unit and managed to get smiting off it would have been a different story. That would have been 30-40 wounds on the spearmen unit or a dead phoenix etc.

In general I feel that a shooting list doesn't suit my opponent. He would be better with an aggressive TK list with one or two big monsters, some entombed units, and some light shooting to take out support elements. This allows for a battleline deployment and pushing forward aggressively.

Good catch on the attuned to magic roll SA. It is indeed only in the controlling players phase. Would have made some difference (mainly in the phoenix being a more viable target, they didn't take many hits).

As for redirectors, don't leave home without them.

Rod

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:44 pm 
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Green Istari

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Prince of Spires wrote:
My opponent also made a few mistakes. Deployment was one of them. Had my opponent decided to put both the casket and the archer unit in a corner on the board edge then I would have had a lot more trouble getting to both of them. It would have also offered him more opportunities to maneuver his own units into favorable positions.

Cornering was one option. What happens if he simply deploys the unit further back Rod? With elves, just over 8" from the baseline can often be a good idea because you're unlikely to Panic off but it still gives you more space than on the 12" line. You can always move 5" forwards and shoot 30". Obviously Panic isn't an issue for TK's, so right on the baseline is possible. I guess they may want to be close enough so that a 4" move gets them to within 24".

Prince of Spires wrote:
Lastly I think the archer unit was too small. 45 archers, meant 32 shots, which is 16 hits, of which 3 are poisoned (being generous) and the rest cause 6 wounds on T3 models or 2 on T6 models, before armour and ward saves. That's 6 wounds on spearmen, 3 on PG or 2 on a phoenix (with a 4+ ward). Nice, but nothing to worry about too much. 60 archers, with 39 shots, makes it already slightly more worrying, especially with the higher chance for poisonous hits. More so when combined with a screaming skull catapult (or two).


I agree that more models makes sense here to maximise Khalida's impact. Though I think 32 shots averages just over five Poisoned wounds, plus whatever S3 can achieve. Could the 45 have been deployed 15-wide here to help?

Playing the Daemons, I really miss my archery, the Flamers are a consolation. It's really useful to pick off redirectors etc.. Of course if we want to achieve more, numbers and/or spell buffs are very helpful.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:18 am 
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Thanks for the report!

Poor Tomb Kings, they took a pretty much expected beating I'm afraid.

You just can't make composition mistakes like that with an army so average, against one so tough.

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