suggestions for improvements 1500p HE army list

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Jallo
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:19 am

suggestions for improvements 1500p HE army list

#1 Post by Jallo »

I'm playing a "friendly" tournament with old friends, all of us has picked up warhammer fantasy again after approximately 20 years of pause. I really want to beat them and we've played a few games that went pretty ok for me I think. Now we want to play a small tournament of 1500 points (that still takes us about 6 hours to finish) and the other players play bretonian, shaven and ogres kingdoms but I don't know how they will make their lists. I have played a cavalry heavy list but wanted to try some of the other special units out so I made this list:

I would greatly appreciate suggestions for the list, considering I'm fairly new to the game all points are view are probably relevant! :-)

1500 Pts - High Elves Roster

Archers (10#, 110 pts)
10 Archers, 110 pts (Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Longbow; Always Strikes First; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages; Volley Fire)

Archers (10#, 110 pts)
10 Archers, 110 pts (Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Longbow; Always Strikes First; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages; Volley Fire)

Spearmen (21#, 334 pts)
1 Noble, 124 pts (Battle Standard Bearer; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Dragon Armour; Always Strikes First; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages; Always Strikes Last; Fireborn)
1 Shield of the Merwyrm
19 Spearmen, 210 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Always Strikes First; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages; Fight in Extra Ranks)
1 Sentinel (Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Always Strikes First; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages; Fight in Extra Ranks)

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower, 70 pts (Repeater Bolt Thrower; Armour Piercing; Multiple Wounds (D3))
2 Sea Guard Crew (Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Always Strikes First; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages)

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower, 70 pts (Repeater Bolt Thrower; Armour Piercing; Multiple Wounds (D3))
2 Sea Guard Crew (Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Always Strikes First; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages)

Great Eagle (1#, 50 pts)
1 Great Eagle, 50 pts (Fly; Stomp; Swiftstride)

Great Eagle (1#, 50 pts)
1 Great Eagle, 50 pts (Fly; Stomp; Swiftstride)

Magebunker (13#, 546 pts)
1 Archmage, 320 pts (General; Level 4 Wizard; Hand Weapon; Always Strikes First; Lileath's Blessing; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages)
1 Book of Hoeth
1 Talisman of Preservation
1 The Lore of Shadow
12 Swordmasters of Hoeth, 226 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Always Strikes First; Deflect Shots; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages; Always Strikes Last)
1 Banner of the World Dragon (Stubborn)

Dragon Princes of Caledor (5#, 160 pts)
5 Dragon Princes of Caledor, 160 pts (Standard Bearer Std; Ithilmar Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance; Dragon Armour; Shield; Always Strikes First; Martial Prowess; Swiftstride; Valour of Ages; Fireborn)
5 Elven Steed (Swiftstride)
1 Gleaming Pennant

Composition Report:
Points of Lords: 320 (0 - 750)
Points of Heroes: 124 (0 - 750)
Points of Core: 430 (375 - Unlimited)
Points of Special: 386 (0 - 750)
Points of Rare: 240 (0 - 375)

Total Roster Cost: 1500
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Doctor
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Re: suggestions for improvements 1500p HE army list

#2 Post by Doctor »

Your BSB has a shield and a GW. It won't work.
No flaming banner to strip regeneration (Skaven HPA?)
Swordmasters may not be the best choice for a bunker, but I guess people with more experience should comment on this.
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Prince of Spires
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Re: suggestions for improvements 1500p HE army list

#3 Post by Prince of Spires »

A minor point, but the characters don't have to go in the units you put them in, but are deployed separately (and can switch units throughout the game or even go out on their own). I personally wouldn't place the archmage in the Swordmasters. SM are a main battleline unit, which doesn't match with an archmage who wants to shoot stuff from a distance. I'd place him in an archer unit.

A question to start off with, what units / models do you have available? That determines a lot of the options you have.

In general to make the list stronger I would:
drop the spearmen. Replace them with a unit of reavers (5, with spears only and a musician). And put the rest of the points in archers. Reason is that spearmen don't fight very well and are (compared to other races) a very expensive way to get ranks.
Which gives you a core of
13 archers, musician
14 archers, musician
5 reavers, musician

With one unit of reavers in core, you can drop at least one eagle, possibly both (a bit personal preference).

Doing this has saved 100 pts.

Other improvements:
change the dragon armour on the BSB to heavy armour. Flaming will not be that common I think. And too expensive for what it does (another 6 points)
Drop the talisman of preservation on the archmage. Great item, but I feel at this points level it's too expensive. I'd simply try to stay out of combat or hide somewhere. (another 45 points)
Drop the Banner of the World dragon from the SM. Again, great item, but mainly useful in bigger battles. At this points level there won't be too many magical attacks (though the skaven could have some nasty surprises). Also, the unit of 12 SM is too small for the cost I think. Another 50pts

In total, this would give 201 pts to invest in some extra stuff.
One option is to drop 6 SM and the SM banner bearer, and change them for 15 PG with the razor banner (I would also move the SM musician to this unit).
Another is to add a unit of 15 WL or SM,
A third option is to add a unit of 10 WL or SM and 2 extra Dragon princes.
Final option I think is to add a RBT and 10 WL or SM.

Bit of personal preference in those. I think I would add the PG + razor banner (they kick some serious butt) or go for WL (which will be great help against bretionian armour and ogre kingdoms).

edit: Doctor is correct on the shield + great weapon thing for the BSB. I would possibly drop the shield and armour in exchange for the armour of silvered steel

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Jallo
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:19 am

Re: suggestions for improvements 1500p HE army list

#4 Post by Jallo »

Thank you for great replies already! I'll be going this thoroughly tonight when I'm (not supposed to be) working.
I would however just reply to the question about the models. I don't have many PG og WL (yet) but as we play it, it is ok to substitute this with other units until I get them because we really don't want to limit our strategic capabilities to what ready to go models we have. So anything goes in other words. :-)
again, thanks for great input!
Jallo
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Re: suggestions for improvements 1500p HE army list

#5 Post by Jallo »

To hell with work then. I tried addressing the mentioned points. I've never played against skaven. Should I include something special in this regard? I love getting rid of the Spearmen. I've had great experiences with the ellyrian reavers before, but don't you think there may be a little too little chaff units? I suppose the 5 SM can serve that purpose so som extend.
Her is an updated list version:

1500 Pts - High Elves Roster

Archers (14#, 150 pts)
14 Archers, 150 pts (Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Longbow; Always Strikes First; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages; Volley Fire)

Ellyrian Reavers (5#, 90 pts)
5 Ellyrian Reavers, 90 pts (Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Spear; Light Armour; Always Strikes First; Fast Cavalry; Martial Prowess; Swiftstride; Valour of Ages; Vanguard)
5 Elven Steed (Swiftstride)

Archers (13#, 140 pts)
13 Archers, 140 pts (Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Longbow; Always Strikes First; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages; Volley Fire)

Steadfast (1#, 144 pts)
1 Noble, 144 pts (Battle Standard Bearer; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Always Strikes First; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages; Always Strikes Last)
1 Armour of Silvered Steel

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower, 70 pts (Repeater Bolt Thrower; Armour Piercing; Multiple Wounds (D3))
2 Sea Guard Crew (Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Always Strikes First; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages)

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower, 70 pts (Repeater Bolt Thrower; Armour Piercing; Multiple Wounds (D3))
2 Sea Guard Crew (Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Always Strikes First; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages)

Archmage (1#, 285 pts)
1 Archmage, 285 pts (General; Level 4 Wizard; Hand Weapon; Always Strikes First; Lileath's Blessing; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages)
1 Book of Hoeth
1 Golden Crown of Atrazar
1 The Lore of Shadow

Phoenix Guard (15#, 290 pts)
15 Phoenix Guard, 290 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Halberd; Heavy Armour; Always Strikes First; Fear; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages; Witness to Destiny)
1 Razor Standard (Armour Piercing)

Dragon Princes of Caledor (6#, 194 pts)
6 Dragon Princes of Caledor, 194 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Ithilmar Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance; Dragon Armour; Shield; Always Strikes First; Martial Prowess; Swiftstride; Valour of Ages; Fireborn)
6 Elven Steed (Swiftstride)

Sword Masters of Hoeth (5#, 65 pts)
5 Swordmasters of Hoeth, 65 pts (Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Always Strikes First; Deflect Shots; Martial Prowess; Valour of Ages; Always Strikes Last)

Composition Report:
Points of Lords: 285 (0 - 750)
Points of Heroes: 144 (0 - 750)
Points of Core: 380 (375 - Unlimited)
Points of Special: 549 (0 - 750)
Points of Rare: 140 (0 - 375)

Total Roster Cost: 1498
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Doctor
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Re: suggestions for improvements 1500p HE army list

#6 Post by Doctor »

I find BotWD nice to have even at this point level - it provides protection against miscasts (though as pointed out, you don't necessary want your mage in a battle unit) and it protects you from those nasty Skaven toys like cannons, weapon teams etc.
Though I'm not saying that it's better than what Prince of Spires has suggested. He is most probably right - if you don't have a concrete use for the banner, it means you can use those points better.

Armour of silvered steel is a good suggestion. With spare 5 points, Armour of Caledor may be better.

You still didn't include the flaming banner. I'd highly suggest it if there's a chance your Skaven opponent will field the abomination. It's nasty and the baner makes killing it a lot easier. Skaven may be tough for your list also due to the Storm Banner interfering with your shooting, but you can't do anything about that. Finding points for it in this list may be tough though.
Jallo
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Re: suggestions for improvements 1500p HE army list

#7 Post by Jallo »

Doctor wrote:I find BotWD nice to have even at this point level - it provides protection against miscasts (though as pointed out, you don't necessary want your mage in a battle unit) and it protects you from those nasty Skaven toys like cannons, weapon teams etc.
Though I'm not saying that it's better than what Prince of Spires has suggested. He is most probably right - if you don't have a concrete use for the banner, it means you can use those points better.

Armour of silvered steel is a good suggestion. With spare 5 points, Armour of Caledor may be better.

You still didn't include the flaming banner. I'd highly suggest it if there's a chance your Skaven opponent will field the abomination. It's nasty and the baner makes killing it a lot easier. Skaven may be tough for your list also due to the Storm Banner interfering with your shooting, but you can't do anything about that. Finding points for it in this list may be tough though.
So I read up on the HPA because I fairly certain to see it, as it's in his box of models.. Nasty thing.

Therefore I skipped the Golden Crown on the AM, gave the Dragon Princes the flaming banner, and then I just plan on breaking it on the charge! If 12 flaming S5 attacks, a charge and a standard bearer isn't enough to break LD 7, well then it won't break i guess.

Good point about the botwd.. I have a tendency to misscast I must admit.. I don't know if I'll be able to hide in the archers.as I plan on fielding a shadow mage, the smoke and mirror will allow me to switch with my BSB if he's within 18", otherwise I have to outrun the archers if I'm charged..
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Re: suggestions for improvements 1500p HE army list

#8 Post by Ferny »

I've had my head stuck in 9th Age so long now it's strange to read 8th ed items!

Anyway, at low points I'd suggest the following:

Dragon princes are going to be excellent IMO - high volume of high quality attacks delivered fast and with armour. Flaming banner on them makes them a go to vs hellpit (and they can't be stomped), and will only harm you vs fireborn characters if any.

If your lord allowance allows, I really like loremasters at low points (especially with book) - there's very little that can match their range at those points. He also doubles as a reasonable fighter at low points when there are less killy thigns around to face off against.

I quite like the idea of MSU swordmasters - again, lots of attacks can only be good at low points, right? However, I think PG are brilliant here - they are almost effectively two models for the price of one with their 4++ and there won't be much that can shift them, and they're not bad fighters with ASF and halberds (and maybe razor banner). If you stick a BSB with Mywrwrm shield and/or a loremaster in there then they can take on near enough anything.

Now, looking at your list it is a fairly close match to my suggestions - so I think you're on good ground there :D
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Doctor
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Re: suggestions for improvements 1500p HE army list

#9 Post by Doctor »

Jallo wrote: So I read up on the HPA because I fairly certain to see it, as it's in his box of models.. Nasty thing.

Therefore I skipped the Golden Crown on the AM, gave the Dragon Princes the flaming banner, and then I just plan on breaking it on the charge! If 12 flaming S5 attacks, a charge and a standard bearer isn't enough to break LD 7, well then it won't break i guess.
Good choice, but remember that the HPA is stubborn so it's not that simple to break it.

Leaving your archmage totally unprotected is risky, though.
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