1500 Pt. Army--playing mostly Chaos and Empire

[joshw4288]

Here is what I have so far:

Loremaster, Golden Crown, Book of Hoeth, Dragonhelm (305)

24 Sea Guard, Shields, Musician and Standard (308)

5 Reavers, Bows and Spears, Musician (105)

17 Swordmasters, Full Command, Banner of World Dragon (301)

18 White Lions, Full Command Gleaming Pennant (269)

2 Bolt Throwers (140)

Great Eagle, Swiftsense, Talons (65)

Total comes to 1493

My main question relates to the White Lions. I am debating between this unit of 18 WL or replacing them with 2 White Lion Chariots (240) and using the extra 29 points with the 7 leftover and the 10 from the dragon helm to give the Loremaster a Talisman of Preservation.

This would come to 1499.

I have all of the models other than the White Lions so I am not willing to make major changes that require not using units I do have and having to purchase new models. Any recommendation on the White Lion question or Loremaster vs. Mage (I have this model) or changes to banners etc.? Any other recommendations for what to do with the points if not using them for the White Lions as listed above or the alternative of the 2 WL Chariots and changing the Loremaster build?

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I mostly play Chaos (mostly Nurgle warriors and Chaos Knights) and Empire (All Cavalry army) with lots of Warrior Priest support.

[SpellArcher]

Welcome josh.

The list looks pretty serviceable to me. Loremaster is strong at this kind of points total. I would go for a 4+ Ward on him if you can so he can survive combat. Personally, I would take Dispel Scroll but Book has it's points. You probably don't need the upgrades on the eagle because his main job is to be sacrificed redirecting enemy units.

The Lions are OK, you'll certainly find the S6 useful against all that armour. Normally I'd be tempted to take a Battle Standard Bearer at 1500 but Gleaming Pennant helps a bit with it's re-roll. Some armies might cause trouble for Lions lacking World Dragon but these two not so much perhaps.

[joshw4288]

I could toss a BSB in and adjust the list as follows:

Loremaster, Book of Hoeth, T. of Preservation (330) (Increasing survivability)

Noble, BSB, Heavy Armor, Shield of Merwyrm, Reaver Bow (139) (4+, 4+, and 3 S5 shots w/ the Sea Guard)

24 Sea Guard, Shields, Musician and Standard (308)

5 Reavers, Bows and Spears, Musician (105)

17 Swordmasters, Full Command, Banner of World Dragon (301)

White Lion Chariot (120) (Don't have the points for another infantry block, thought this would suffice)

2 Bolt Throwers (140)

Great Eagle (50) (dropped but left talons because there were 5 extra points lying around)

[SpellArcher]

Against elves the second list might be better but with the opponents you are facing I'd take the Lions.

They will stop you getting run over.

[Elithmar]

You can shave a few points off your core to squeeze in the lions. A musician on the reavers is superfluous, as all it does is add +1Ld when rallying, which shouldn't be necessary if you have a BSB. Then take out a couple of sea guards to get you down to the 25% level. Otherwise, you could probably drop the Book of Hoeth for a Dispel Scroll and you'll be able to get a small unit of lions.

[joshw4288]

You can shave a few points off your core to squeeze in the lions. A musician on the reavers is superfluous, as all it does is add +1Ld when rallying, which shouldn't be necessary if you have a BSB. Then take out a couple of sea guards to get you down to the 25% level. Otherwise, you could probably drop the Book of Hoeth for a Dispel Scroll and you'll be able to get a small unit of lions.

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

I am a bit torn on the BSB and wonder if he is necessary. I've always felt at this points level that if you aren't winning combats (especially with the sword masters and white lions), you're losing the game anyway. Dropping the BSB/White lion chariot (from the second list) and dropping a few sea guard opens up space for a unit of 20 White Lions w/ command and a gleaming pennant.

As far as the Reavers, I would think that most often they wouldn't be within 12 inches of the BSB. I also come from playing Empire and thought I would be using them like pistoliers (harassing, when charged, fleeing, rallying, and coming back for more) and would thus benefit from the musician. I haven't played with High Elves yet, so perhaps I am off based on their use here.

[SpellArcher]

Elithmar makes a very good point about the Core, cutting it to 25% is an excellent idea. Do you have any more IOB Reavers josh? Another five could be squeezed into Core at the expense of LSG, which would let you drop the Eagle. You could then cut the Std Bearer from the Lions (Stubborn) and you'd have almost enough for the BSB, while keeping the Lions. 18 is just about enough but any less and they're not going to last long against Chaos Knights and such.

BSB is just so useful, not just for Break tests, Panic is very dangerous too. Musician on the Reavers is OK but at Ld 8 they can manage without if they have to.

[Maturin]

Although my swordmasters performed quite well in the first tourney ever I played in May (I did win in Combat against an Empire Cav bus) I have to say that I largely prefer the White Lions.
3+ against shooting, Str 6 is awesome and of course Stubborn, since I bought them, I'm in love. I don't even appreciate my Phoenix guards anymore, who have underperformed every time I used them. Maybe you could swap the SM block for a lion one who would deal easier with heavily armed foes, and use the SM as darts, either as a 1*7 line on each side or as chariot replacement (2 or 3 front, 2 or 3 rank deep) and use them to add Combat res by flanking.

And as SA said, BSB is VERY useful. You wuldn't believe how many tests I failed even with our high LD.

[Elithmar]

You're right that the reavers often won't be able to use the BSB's rerolls, but I'd still go without a musician. They'll make ld8 most of the time and you could do with as many models as possible at this points level.