WFB: Reworked and Rebalanced

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Loriel
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#31 Post by Loriel »

I like the "solution" to buildings in the ( http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?simple-page/ )
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Galharen
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#32 Post by Galharen »

Furion, fingers crossed, keep up doing a great job!
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#33 Post by Furion »

Added Dwarfs armybook, link in 1st post.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#34 Post by Makiwara »

Not played Dwarves, but have played against them and I like these changes, especially the bound spell runes. It should make these guys really interesting to play and gives them a magic phase at least.

Slayers seem like they're going to be a handful and a half and, considering the fluff, rightly so.

I'm really liking what I'm seeing so far Furion, can't wait to see what it's all like when you've had some time to get it all out and further develop it. Going to be gangbusters.

A general question. Will you make provisions for allied forces in your rules? I'd like to see your take on allies, without GW's full on End Times HOTEK or Grand Legion craziness.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#35 Post by Furion »

Makiwara wrote:
A general question. Will you make provisions for allied forces in your rules? I'd like to see your take on allies, without GW's full on End Times HOTEK or Grand Legion craziness.
My initial concern is to realise a simple 1v1 pitched battle balanced game at ~2400 points level.

Any nuances aka building, scenarios or allies - later, depending on public demand.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#36 Post by teep »

Hi there again! Since you didn't answer my questions on the bottom of the previous page,
lemme ask you again:) what are your thoughts on disruption/steadfast, vps for decimated
units, separate vps for chars and mounts and vps for units fleeing in the last turn?
And most importantly, what about including SLoS?
Ah, and there's one more thing: do you want me to start a thread with your updates on
german forums such as tabletopwelt.de to get some more feedback?
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#37 Post by Furion »

teep wrote:Hi there again! Since you didn't answer my questions on the bottom of the previous page,
lemme ask you again:) what are your thoughts on disruption/steadfast, vps for decimated
units, separate vps for chars and mounts and vps for units fleeing in the last turn?
And most importantly, what about including SLoS?
Maybe, these are all marginal issues.
Ah, and there's one more thing: do you want me to start a thread with your updates on
german forums such as tabletopwelt.de to get some more feedback?
Free country, do as you please ;) Thank you for your support though, I am sure that it will help.

cheers
Furion
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#38 Post by Furion »

New armybook reworked, rebalanced and now released - Ogre Kingdoms - link in 1st post.

Thank you for all the comments.

cheers
Furion
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#39 Post by Makiwara »

Having now read through the reworked High Elf book, I've got to say the Wood Elves need at least a second magical bow with High Elves getting the Bow of the Seafarer back, it's 2 to 1 and woodies are the shooty elves. It'd also be nice to have the Bow of Loren able to use our enchanted arrows also, which wouldn't be a problem on a waystalker kit out as they don't have the option for enchanted arrows, but at the very least we could have something close to the old machine gun Alter.

*Edit* Core Tiranoc Chariots is absolutely awesome, they should have put them there in 8th, all chariot High Elf armies would be great to see. Lovely work!
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#40 Post by Furion »

New armybook: Vampire Counts! Link in 1st post.

Rest of armybooks: balance updates. For those who have read it already, there is a changelog at the bottom of 1st post.

Also: tournament pack for these rules is ready, available in... you guessed it, 1st post!

cheers
Furion

ps. shortest tournament pack ever?!
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Lordy
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#41 Post by Lordy »

Hmm as a Vampire player I'm not sure If I like the changes you've made or not, though I guess that's just down to natural reluctance to change.

I do love the Wight King rule, giving Grave Guard and Black Knights WS4 but then you go an increase points on both units which makes It pretty worthless, both units see little play in current Meta, +1 WS doesn't justify the points increase imo, keep the new special rule and the same points and I think it would be on the mark.

I'd also change the unit type of the corpse cart away from Chariot, that way it could march and it matches the fluff better, no way would a corpse cart be causing impact hits being pulled by some shambling zombies.

Ghoul skirmishing Is a major change, I think I like it, they shouldn't be dead so I'm glad you've fixed that, they seem a bit pricey though now that they skirmish however although reforming is a big boost for them...
It certainly mixes up the core up though.

Zombies movement 3, I get why you've done it and it makes sense fluff wise but I'd stick with movement 4, they're hardly game breaking especially after the change you made to invocation.

Coach points - -50pts is massive, it needs a drop not sure by that much tho.

Terrorgheist - 265pts is removing it from the game imo, it's points are fine, just remove ability to scream into combat.

Mortis Engine - This has increased in points for some reason, not sure if that is a typo, they are near non existant from the events I've been to. -10pts would be fine.

Vargheist - 8pts cheaper is quite big Vargheists are a decent choice already, a drop to 5pts should be enough

Horrors - +12 points is an over kill, 4pt increase is fair

Fellbats - +4points is needed but the 3+ unit size ruins them now, a 40pt chaff unit is fair enough.

Vampire - +5pts, not sure why?

Bloodknights, an extra wound isn't going to get people using them, keep them as 1 wound but give them a big points decrease.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#42 Post by Furion »

New armybook reworked and rebalanced - Lizardmen!
Link in 1st post.

cheers
Furion
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Eirik
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#43 Post by Eirik »

Lordy wrote: I'd also change the unit type of the corpse cart away from Chariot, that way it could march and it matches the fluff better, no way would a corpse cart be causing impact hits being pulled by some shambling zombies.

Terrorgheist - 265pts is removing it from the game imo, it's points are fine, just remove ability to scream into combat.
The chariot is a tough call, because most other armies with buff wagons have to use them as chariots and follow the no-march rule. It wouldn't make sense to change it for VC and no other army. It's already pretty fast for, as you say, being towed by zombies. Keeping buff-wagons slower forces players to position them carefully and make interesting decisions.

The terrorgheist cost increase is in line with what other updates are doing, and I'm fairly certain people would still take them. I don't know why you need to take away scream in combat, people are used to it now, and it was clearly the intent of the unit.
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HugoMac
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#44 Post by HugoMac »

IMHO, an elegant solution for the terrorgheist should be "forcing" him to pay the upgrades, that is: make it 250 points (or even 5-10 more) but with the 3d6 impacts when he dies and the poisoned attacks.

Thus, it would cost a more appropiated price for what he does, and at the same time the VC players won´t feel so..."forced", XDDD


For all the other changes i fully agree with Lordy, BUT the 2nd wound for the Blood Knights is a great idea (i´ve always thought the same in my "mental version" of fixed warhammer, hehehe!)
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#45 Post by HERO »

I do agree that this is a good time for the community to step up and pick up the no longer supported products.

I do have a question though Furion:
Are you working with the 9th Age guys at all? Have they been taking your feedback for the books and balance solutions?

-Larry
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#46 Post by Lordy »

Eirik wrote:
Lordy wrote: I'd also change the unit type of the corpse cart away from Chariot, that way it could march and it matches the fluff better, no way would a corpse cart be causing impact hits being pulled by some shambling zombies.

Terrorgheist - 265pts is removing it from the game imo, it's points are fine, just remove ability to scream into combat.
The chariot is a tough call, because most other armies with buff wagons have to use them as chariots and follow the no-march rule. It wouldn't make sense to change it for VC and no other army. It's already pretty fast for, as you say, being towed by zombies. Keeping buff-wagons slower forces players to position them carefully and make interesting decisions.

The terrorgheist cost increase is in line with what other updates are doing, and I'm fairly certain people would still take them. I don't know why you need to take away scream in combat, people are used to it now, and it was clearly the intent of the unit.
Sorry I worded that wrong, I mean't stop it screaming into combats it's not a part of, or screaming at units outside of it's own combat, saying that a double terrorgheist build is a weaker vampire build imo.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#47 Post by pk-ng »

HERO wrote:Are you working with the 9th Age guys at all?
No
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#48 Post by HERO »

pk-ng wrote:
HERO wrote:Are you working with the 9th Age guys at all?
No
But why?
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#49 Post by Prince of Spires »

HERO wrote:
pk-ng wrote:
HERO wrote:Are you working with the 9th Age guys at all?
No
But why?
actually
=>
9th Age discussion and suggestions topic

feel free to give use your input. I'm pretty sure you can come up with some good ideas for HE.

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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#50 Post by HERO »

I will give you input.. but I'm wondering why Furion decided to go solo.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#51 Post by Makiwara »

Wait, are you on the team working on 9th Age Spires?

If so, you truly are the Machiavelli of the Asur!

:lol:
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Makiwara wrote:Smiths in Nagarythe that can repair the holiest piece of armour worn by the Shadow Prince himself... 0 apparently.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#52 Post by cptcosmic »

no ithilmar barding for reavers :(

they are knights of ellyrion
they have barding on artwork
they IoB model has barding
they train riding for ages and favor speed over brute force but run into battle almost naked despite ithilmar barding does not hamper their movement?

lore/fluff change > everything else
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#53 Post by Prince of Spires »

Makiwara wrote:Wait, are you on the team working on 9th Age Spires?

If so, you truly are the Machiavelli of the Asur!

:lol:
Nah, too much trouble. I'm just throwing my opinion out there. Same as always.

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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#54 Post by Furion »

HERO wrote:I will give you input.. but I'm wondering why Furion decided to go solo.
Wasn't really my decision. I've talked to 9th Age guys, they weren't interested in working together.

Besides that I think that their way of making things is inferior balance wise. Too big of a group. But that's another topic.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#55 Post by Makiwara »

Having played a game of each now against my cousin's Delfs I must say I prefer Furion's take on the woodies.

Still think that the enchanted arrows are a smiggen too expensive, the Blades of Loec I'd love on my general and the Lore of Athel Loren needs some more unique spells, but aside from that it's good fun and a good job.
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Makiwara wrote:Smiths in Nagarythe that can repair the holiest piece of armour worn by the Shadow Prince himself... 0 apparently.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#56 Post by Shannar, Sealord »

Furion wrote:
HERO wrote:I will give you input.. but I'm wondering why Furion decided to go solo.
Wasn't really my decision. I've talked to 9th Age guys, they weren't interested in working together.

Besides that I think that their way of making things is inferior balance wise. Too big of a group. But that's another topic.
Yep, a group has it's benefits. But when the group gets big everything becomes more difficult. Small adjustments are great when reviewed by a large group. Making lots of large ones all at once is usually better accomplished by a single vision. And then a group can be used to try it out.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#57 Post by ArhangelusM »

I must say that to me 9th Age is > compared to Furionhammer.

Furion isn't going to the root of the problem (core rules set) but is fixing consequences of the problem (points costs mostly, with some special rules changes).

And, no matter how good of a player Furion is, he is but 1 guy, and he cannot possibly do the volume of work / brainstorming /playtesting that a group of people can, especially a group of people with such a wide community support.

@ Furion: I am not trying to diminish your work and effort, I just think 9th Age is a more complete solution to the problem that is Warhammer 8th.

And I'm sorry to hear that 9th Age guys refused cooperation...:/

If you are willing, you can still contribute in their feedback forums on TWF, and I know that your knowledge and input would be a great addition to the 9th Age as a whole! :)
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#58 Post by Makiwara »

To be fair though, at this point Furion has put out 7 times the useable content with 1/7th the manpower. Let's not be hasty to judge what this will look like in two or three months time, once he can get some time to go into greater depth.
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Makiwara wrote:Smiths in Nagarythe that can repair the holiest piece of armour worn by the Shadow Prince himself... 0 apparently.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#59 Post by Furion »

ArhangelusM wrote:Furion isn't going to the root of the problem (core rules set) but is fixing consequences of the problem (points costs mostly, with some special rules changes).
Rulebook fix coming in next update. It will have maybe half page of text. I can actually paste it here:
use 8th edition Warhammer Fantasy Battles rulebook with following fixes:
- for FAQ use ETC FAQ
- Simple Line of Sight
- Units fleeing at the end of the game and / or at 25% or less of the number of starting models yield 50% of their VPs.
- Max 5 power dice per casting attempt
- no Miscast / Irresistible force on casting with 2 dice
- Spells as listed below
- Common Magic Items as listed below
- Army composition:
  • Lords <33%
  • Heroes <33%
  • Core >= 25%
  • Special <50%
  • Rare <25%
- Spears grant +2 Initiative, Fight in Extra Ranks (always)
Done. TA-DAM!
And, no matter how good of a player Furion is, he is but 1 guy, and he cannot possibly do the volume of work / brainstorming /playtesting that a group of people can, especially a group of people with such a wide community support.
Starting with an old saying:
There are some things which are considered impossible to do.
Then, there comes one person and simply does it - he just didn't know it was impossible.


1. I am willing to bet that my ruleset has been playtested more than 9th age. Every Sunday there are ~40 manhours of playtesting at my local club alone. Besides that, people from around the world provide feedback after playing.
2. There already are multiple scheduled events which will use my ruleset.
3. My project was launched a month later - I've been working half the time that 9th Age guys had. I've made 8x the workload that they did in that time. I am 15x more productive... Maybe it is because I am working on it 8 hours a day, 12 hours on weekends, 7 days a week?
If you are willing, you can still contribute in their feedback forums on TWF, and I know that your knowledge and input would be a great addition to the 9th Age as a whole! :)
I already told the 9th age creators. My feedback is already given - it is visible in form of work I make.
These are the fixes that need to be done.
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Re: Warhammer 9th edition?!

#60 Post by Ferny »

Furion, could you give seem feedback on your thought process behind the changes you've made, specifically high elves. How did you pick the points you did? How did you select the new special rules you made? Itd be interesting to see your response to the feedback given :)
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