2400 ETC list: dragonprice vs cavalry star - advice needed

[Elkadar]

I need your help guys.
I'm usually a casual player but my group decided to run a few gaming events according to ETC rules.
So here I am assembling my first ETC lists.

Right now I'm hesitating between two different approaches, each with own limitations I'm not entirely comfortable with.

Dragonprice and friends:

Prince
+ Star Lance
+ Enchanted Shield
+ Talisman of Preservation
+ The Other Trickster's Shard
+ Dragon armour
+ Star Dragon

Archmage
+ Fencer's Blades
+ Dispel Scroll
+ Talisman of Endurance
+ Ironcurse Icon
+ Level 4 Wizard

Noble
+ Armour of Caledor
+ Battle Standard

5 Ellyrian Reavers
+ spears; bows
6 Silver Helms
+ shields
6 Silver Helms
+ shields
21 Archers
+ musician
+ standard bearer

27 White Lions of Chrace
+ Guardian
+ musician
+ standard bearer
+ Banner of the World Dragon

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower

1 Great Eagle


2 397 points

Hit strong, hit hard, hit fast type of approach. However comp choices limit target saturation options. I could switch 3 RBT to a Frost Phoenix but then I will suffer on board control, necessary for Power Play list. However one big target (star dragon) leaves me pretty exposed to unlucky war machine hits. Loosing the dragon early would leave me exposed and lacking in strength to do significant damage.
I would feel also safer with better cavalry support like big SH unit to ensure braking steadfast on units engaged by dragon, but comp limitation dos not allow to equip SH bus with sufficient supporting characters.

Tyrion and friends:

Archmage
+ Dispel Scroll
+ Crown of Command
+ Fencer's Blades
+ Level 4 Wizard
+ Elven Steed
Tyrion


Noble
+ Banner of the World Dragon
+ lance
+ Dragon armour
+ shield
+ Battle Standard

18 Archers
+ Hawkeye
+ musician
+ standard bearer
16 Silver Helms
+ shields
+ High Helm
+ musician
+ standard bearer

20 Phoenix Guard
+ Keeper of the Flame
+ musician
+ standard bearer
+ Razor Standard

Frostheart Phoenix

12 Sisters of Avelorn

1 Great Eagle

1 Great Eagle


2 399 points

Tyrion brings some advantages of a ridden monster (Dragon of Cothique I guess ) without making him vulnerable to war machine fire. However, here I believe I need frost phoenix as support in case SH bus got stuck in prolonged CC. On the other hand comp choice restrictions leaves me without RBT support. I hope to compensate with Sisters of Avelron to ensure some reliable shooting support but still it's lacking board control/ long range threat projection of RBT battery.

So, based on your experience, what would you suggest? Does any of above make sense or I should try something different?

EDIT: individual point values removed

[Cold Phoenix]

Are these events going to use ETC rules for army comp only or are they going to use the entire ETC pack? It can really make a difference. If the entire ETC pack is in play then there should be Line of Sight blocking hills on every table, making the Star Dragon much more survivable against Warmachines and Magic Missiles.

As for lists, a couple of suggestions:

Swap the Dragon Armour and Enchanted Shield on the Dragon rider for Dragonhelm + Heavy Armour + Shield. You end up with the same saves and get some more points to play with.

Consider reworking the characters in list 2; it's not a bad list but Tyrion has flaming attacks (good against regen, bad against fire wards) and the other characters aren't going to survive a prolonged melee. If Tyrion is on a 50x50 base, the other characters will be able to sit out the first round of combat, but as some as the champ dies, you'll have to send someone forward to replace him.

[pk-ng]

Please delete the individual points it's against forum rules and infringes on GW's IP.

Your 1st list is the cookie cutter Star Dragon List.
Suggestion by Cold Phoenix is plausible and from experience the AM isn't going to need the Fencer's blade there by saving you more points.
You can consider LSH: BSB as an alternative and kit him up defensively i.e Shield of the Merywyrm, OTS and magic sword.
With the points save you could get another eagle or another RBT or more bodies.

As for your 2nd list it's not really optimised as your have foot BSB with BotWD but your viable foot option is PGs. Tyrion in this list is a liability as it can be locked down by 2++ ward characters and they will restrict Tyrion's movement.

[Elkadar]

Are these events going to use ETC rules for army comp only or are they going to use the entire ETC pack? It can really make a difference. If the entire ETC pack is in play then there should be Line of Sight blocking hills on every table, making the Star Dragon much more survivable against Warmachines and Magic Missiles.

We are going to use full ETC package, so probably it's not going to be so bad as I was afraid of.

Swap the Dragon Armour and Enchanted Shield on the Dragon rider for Dragonhelm + Heavy Armour + Shield. You end up with the same saves and get some more points to play with.

Good point. I tent to auto include dragon armour in order to keep mundane ward save, but together with talisman of preservation it does not make any sense.

Consider reworking the characters in list 2; it's not a bad list but Tyrion has flaming attacks (good against regen, bad against fire wards) and the other characters aren't going to survive a prolonged melee. If Tyrion is on a 50x50 base, the other characters will be able to sit out the first round of combat, but as some as the champ dies, you'll have to send someone forward to replace him.

I know... but I recognise it as necessary risk. I might bring another combat kitten character but it would mean I need to discard one of the units to save necessary points - probably sisters. Do you think it would be worth it?
On the other hand, in case I loose champion I can move BSB to front that still has decent armour and some ward save. Fo far most of my opponents focus on troops in CC in order to get more combat resolution instead of character hunting.

Please delete the individual points it's against forum rules and infringes on GW's IP.

Thank you for remainder. I have just done mindless copy/paste.

Your 1st list is the cookie cutter Star Dragon List.
Suggestion by Cold Phoenix is plausible and from experience the AM isn't going to need the Fencer's blade there by saving you more points.
You can consider LSH: BSB as an alternative and kit him up defensively i.e Shield of the Merywyrm, OTS and magic sword.
With the points save you could get another eagle or another RBT or more bodies.

Thank you for advice. I will definitely consider it, just need to do some maths:)
I have some second thoughts about OTS. It would work as kind of "double edged sword" in this setup and make me re-roll my own ward saves from BotWD and High Magic atribute.

As for your 2nd list it's not really optimised as your have foot BSB with BotWD but your viable foot option is PGs. Tyrion in this list is a liability as it can be locked down by 2++ ward characters and they will restrict Tyrion's movement.

I have made an error. BSB should be on barred steed and join SH unit, definitely not on foot. I have just forgotten to tick one item in may army building tool.

You both have made me wonder about drawbacks of Tyrion's flaming attacks. Are really 2+ flaming ward saves common in other than High Elf armies?
I know everyone can take dragon helm but it's not that popular, I guess....

Thank you all for your time and effort.

[pk-ng]

You both have made me wonder about drawbacks of Tyrion's flaming attacks. Are really 2+ flaming ward saves common in other than High Elf armies?
I know everyone can take dragon helm but it's not that popular, I guess....

Thank you all for your time and effort.

I would say generally yes, dragonhelm and dragonbane gem. The reasons are

a) Cheap magic item
b) Which in turn makes it cheap item for counter arcane unforging
c) Best protection against flaming war machines when you fail those "look out sir" (it can happen).
d) Increase armour save (only for dragonhelm).
e) and obviously 2++ against flaming units. Kdaai, Magma cannon, Irondrakes and etc...

I would yes generally it's more common on
LM
EM
WoC
Brets
O&G
HE

But obviously it's very list dependent.

[Ielthan]

Have you considered an anointed on flame phoenix? Furion had a lot of success with it at last year's etc, it draws the cannons like the star dragon but can still keep it's points. Also as it's rarely seen people are often unsure as to it's capabilities. Fantastic for dealing with conga lines too.

Dragon helm/gem kind of makes Tyrion useless tbh, and yes a lot of people will have it.

[matrim]

Bit late but did you consider taking DPs as cav support? They can take the banner alowing your BSB to carry magic items. They are slightly more expensive then sH bus and you'll still have to spend points for core but they allow you to get more fighters on horse. Even the unit champion can carry the starlance ensuring a really hard hitting charge if you don't mind spendng 30 points.

I ran a DP bus with prince, bsb and lv4 high in a ETC tourney recently with FP support and a medium sized WL unit. Lack of RBTs was a pain but the bus held its points quite well. I did table a SH bus with BotWD and a Lv4 life mage supported by RBTs. (but got tabled by Dragon Lord, Deamon Prince, Disc flying wariors army, however it took him till the last round to finish the bus and I did fail 2++ ward saves from the DP several times) Long story short they are a good alternative IMO.